Showing posts with label stealing. Show all posts
Showing posts with label stealing. Show all posts
Wednesday, February 03, 2010
Most People are Guilty of some sort of Thievery
By: Meoros HaDaf HaYomi
Dear Customer, Please Note: This Book is not Proofread at all
Rav Yehudah asserts in the name of Rav that most people are guilty of some sort of thievery and, as Rashbam explains (s.v. Rov begezel), this means that most people transacting business allow themselves to deny others their due profit. In other words, fraud, false pretenses and financial conniving are considered gezel.
In his Sefas Tamim (Ch. 3), Rabeinu Yisrael Meir HaKohen zt”l, the Chafetz Chaim, proves that even one who causes his fellow a loss is considered a thief. True to his word, he was renowned for his extreme avoidance of anything resembling falsification or thievery, as evident from his behavior concerning the books he authored.
The Chafetz Chaim was in Warsaw when he first had his Mishnah Berurah printed and every day he would come to the printer to check that no smudged or otherwise defective pages were being sent out for sale. He left his learning for several months for this purpose and afterwards relied on his son to undertake the task. When he discovered that despite his great care, one of his books had been sold with a few defective pages, he hurried a sharp letter to his son, saying “What have you done to me, my son? All my life I’ve taken care to avoid anything resembling thievery but I never thought that I would err in outright robbery and because of you this has happened!” The Chafetz Chaim immediately ordered the printer to reprint those pages found defective and publicize in the press that anyone who had bought a defective edition should inform him of such in order to receive the corrected pages by post (Michtevei HeChafetz Chaim, p. 30).
The Chafetz Chaim knew no rest till he hired special proofreaders to examine each page of his printed books and, if approved, to mark the front page of each book as “proofread” (HeChafetz Chaim Ufo‟olav, I, Ch. 32). Some of these books are still extant.
The problem of printing errors also concerned other halachic authorities. For example, the students of the Tsadik HaGaon Rav Eliahu Lopian zt”l, led by the famed Yerushalmi Magid Rabbi Shalom Schwadron zt”l, published the popular Lev Eliahu with a warning on the front page: “Dear purchaser: This book is not proofread and I assume no responsibility – The Publisher.” We have no knowledge of the severity of the printing error discovered by the Chafetz Chaim but HaGaon Rav Yaakov Kanievski zt”l, the Steipler, states in a letter that the sale of a book containing minor errors that still allow readers to understand the text is not considered gezel. After all, anyone buying a book knows that the task of printing is complicated and hardly ever free of mistakes. In his opinion, a book with no pages missing may be sold even with some defects and therefore, when he found that the last letters on a page were omitted in an entire edition of his Kehilos Yaakov, he continued to sell that edition as the defect did not prevent understanding the text (Karyana D’igarta, I, p. 351). Of course, this principle applies only to publishers of new books but one is not permitted to sell defective sidurim, as finely proofread sidurim are available on the market and they are expected to be free of errors.
All the above is just a fraction of the material pertaining to this broad topic. The Gemora in Brachos (6a) explains that one who fails to respond to a greeting is called a robber, indicating that depriving a person even of his due word is defined as gezel (Sefer “Mamon Kasher”).
Once, Rabbi Elazar Shulevitz zt”l, Rosh Yeshivah of Lomzha, was standing praying Shemoneh Esreh at the entrance to a synagogue and Rabbi Yisrael Salanter, standing near him, approached him and whispered, “Robber! The synagogue is packed full and you’re robbing the congregation of air!” Rabbi Shulevitz immediately interrupted his prayer to move away (Lev Eliahu, Bereishis). Similarly, though in an opposite circumstance, the Vilna Gaon zt”l would take care to shut the door to the bathhouse immediately after entering lest he rob the bathers of the warm air inside (Tosefes Maaseh Rav, S.K. 29). According to the Chafetz Chaim, even someone who participates in a wedding or sheva berachos meal without enhancing the joy of the chassan, about whom the Gemora in Berachos (ibid) states that he transgresses “five voices”, might be guilty of robbery (Michtevei HeChafetz Chaim, p. 46).
Why the Labor Cost More
A simple tailor became close to Rebbe Noach of Lechovitz and the Rebbe persuaded him to refrain from the custom then common among tailors to demand clients to bring them extra cloth in order to benefit from the quantity remaining after their work. “This custom is outright thievery,” explained the Rebbe, “You may charge more for your labor but you mustn’t practice that foul custom.”
“And what should I tell my customers,” questioned the tailor, “if they ask me why I charge more yet need less cloth?”
“Tell them,” replied the Rebbe, “that you learnt to cut in a new way that doesn’t need a lot of cloth but that learning the method cost a great deal.”
The tailor obeyed the Rebbe’s instructions but after a while his customers remarked that he had already covered the expenses of learning the new method and asked why he continued to charge more.
“The new method,” he answered, “is a whole system to be learnt again every day and every week” (Hizaharu Bemamon Chavreichem, p. 366).
The Old Man Fell Asleep on His Coat
On the night following the demise of HaGaon Rav Elchanan Wasserman’s wife, his son Rabbi Naftali sat down and wept incessantly while several yeshivah students slept in an adjacent room. Rav Wasserman approached his son and told him, “You shouldn’t cry so loudly now. The boys might wake up and you would rob them of their sleep” (Or Elchanan, I, p. 13).
A similar story is told of Rabbi Avraham of Purisov. Despite his known tendency to conceal his behavior, he once learnt all night in the beis midrash, later explaining that an old man had fallen asleep on the edge of his coat. “I couldn’t, after all, stand up for fear of waking him!” (Chasidim Mesaperim, I).
Read more!
Dear Customer, Please Note: This Book is not Proofread at all
Rav Yehudah asserts in the name of Rav that most people are guilty of some sort of thievery and, as Rashbam explains (s.v. Rov begezel), this means that most people transacting business allow themselves to deny others their due profit. In other words, fraud, false pretenses and financial conniving are considered gezel.
In his Sefas Tamim (Ch. 3), Rabeinu Yisrael Meir HaKohen zt”l, the Chafetz Chaim, proves that even one who causes his fellow a loss is considered a thief. True to his word, he was renowned for his extreme avoidance of anything resembling falsification or thievery, as evident from his behavior concerning the books he authored.
The Chafetz Chaim was in Warsaw when he first had his Mishnah Berurah printed and every day he would come to the printer to check that no smudged or otherwise defective pages were being sent out for sale. He left his learning for several months for this purpose and afterwards relied on his son to undertake the task. When he discovered that despite his great care, one of his books had been sold with a few defective pages, he hurried a sharp letter to his son, saying “What have you done to me, my son? All my life I’ve taken care to avoid anything resembling thievery but I never thought that I would err in outright robbery and because of you this has happened!” The Chafetz Chaim immediately ordered the printer to reprint those pages found defective and publicize in the press that anyone who had bought a defective edition should inform him of such in order to receive the corrected pages by post (Michtevei HeChafetz Chaim, p. 30).
The Chafetz Chaim knew no rest till he hired special proofreaders to examine each page of his printed books and, if approved, to mark the front page of each book as “proofread” (HeChafetz Chaim Ufo‟olav, I, Ch. 32). Some of these books are still extant.
The problem of printing errors also concerned other halachic authorities. For example, the students of the Tsadik HaGaon Rav Eliahu Lopian zt”l, led by the famed Yerushalmi Magid Rabbi Shalom Schwadron zt”l, published the popular Lev Eliahu with a warning on the front page: “Dear purchaser: This book is not proofread and I assume no responsibility – The Publisher.” We have no knowledge of the severity of the printing error discovered by the Chafetz Chaim but HaGaon Rav Yaakov Kanievski zt”l, the Steipler, states in a letter that the sale of a book containing minor errors that still allow readers to understand the text is not considered gezel. After all, anyone buying a book knows that the task of printing is complicated and hardly ever free of mistakes. In his opinion, a book with no pages missing may be sold even with some defects and therefore, when he found that the last letters on a page were omitted in an entire edition of his Kehilos Yaakov, he continued to sell that edition as the defect did not prevent understanding the text (Karyana D’igarta, I, p. 351). Of course, this principle applies only to publishers of new books but one is not permitted to sell defective sidurim, as finely proofread sidurim are available on the market and they are expected to be free of errors.
All the above is just a fraction of the material pertaining to this broad topic. The Gemora in Brachos (6a) explains that one who fails to respond to a greeting is called a robber, indicating that depriving a person even of his due word is defined as gezel (Sefer “Mamon Kasher”).
Once, Rabbi Elazar Shulevitz zt”l, Rosh Yeshivah of Lomzha, was standing praying Shemoneh Esreh at the entrance to a synagogue and Rabbi Yisrael Salanter, standing near him, approached him and whispered, “Robber! The synagogue is packed full and you’re robbing the congregation of air!” Rabbi Shulevitz immediately interrupted his prayer to move away (Lev Eliahu, Bereishis). Similarly, though in an opposite circumstance, the Vilna Gaon zt”l would take care to shut the door to the bathhouse immediately after entering lest he rob the bathers of the warm air inside (Tosefes Maaseh Rav, S.K. 29). According to the Chafetz Chaim, even someone who participates in a wedding or sheva berachos meal without enhancing the joy of the chassan, about whom the Gemora in Berachos (ibid) states that he transgresses “five voices”, might be guilty of robbery (Michtevei HeChafetz Chaim, p. 46).
Why the Labor Cost More
A simple tailor became close to Rebbe Noach of Lechovitz and the Rebbe persuaded him to refrain from the custom then common among tailors to demand clients to bring them extra cloth in order to benefit from the quantity remaining after their work. “This custom is outright thievery,” explained the Rebbe, “You may charge more for your labor but you mustn’t practice that foul custom.”
“And what should I tell my customers,” questioned the tailor, “if they ask me why I charge more yet need less cloth?”
“Tell them,” replied the Rebbe, “that you learnt to cut in a new way that doesn’t need a lot of cloth but that learning the method cost a great deal.”
The tailor obeyed the Rebbe’s instructions but after a while his customers remarked that he had already covered the expenses of learning the new method and asked why he continued to charge more.
“The new method,” he answered, “is a whole system to be learnt again every day and every week” (Hizaharu Bemamon Chavreichem, p. 366).
The Old Man Fell Asleep on His Coat
On the night following the demise of HaGaon Rav Elchanan Wasserman’s wife, his son Rabbi Naftali sat down and wept incessantly while several yeshivah students slept in an adjacent room. Rav Wasserman approached his son and told him, “You shouldn’t cry so loudly now. The boys might wake up and you would rob them of their sleep” (Or Elchanan, I, p. 13).
A similar story is told of Rabbi Avraham of Purisov. Despite his known tendency to conceal his behavior, he once learnt all night in the beis midrash, later explaining that an old man had fallen asleep on the edge of his coat. “I couldn’t, after all, stand up for fear of waking him!” (Chasidim Mesaperim, I).
Posted by Avromi at 2/03/2010 04:02:00 AM 0 comments
Labels: chofetz chaim, Gemora Bava Basra 165, Rav Yisroel Salanter, stealing
Thursday, August 27, 2009
Stealing for Pain
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Runya had a field which was enclosed on all four sides by fields of Ravina. Ravina fenced them and said to Runya, “Pay me (your share) what I have spent for the fencing.” Runya refused to pay. Then Ravina said, “Pay me at least the cost of a cheap fence of reeds.” He again refused. Ravina said, “Then pay me the hire of a watchman.” He still refused. One day Ravina saw Runya harvesting dates from his palm trees, and he said to his sharecropper, “Go and (in Runya’s presence) take a cluster of dates from him.” He went to take them, but Runya shouted at him, whereupon Ravina said, “You have demonstrated through this that you are satisfied with the fence (and happy that it offers protection for your trees). Even if it is only goats that you are afraid of, does your field not need guarding?” He replied, “A goat can be driven off with a shout (so there is no purpose for a fence).” Ravina asked him, “But don’t you require a man to shout at it?”
They went before Rava, who said to him: Go and appease Ravina with what he accepted (the payment for half a watchman), and if not, I will issue judgment against you according to Rav Huna’s interpretation of the ruling of Rabbi Yosi (and you would be required to pay for half the actual cost of the fence).
The Ritva asks from a Gemora in Bava Metzia (61b), which states that one should not steal in order to pain someone. If so, how was Ravina allowed to send his agent to steal?
He answers that the dates in this case were ready to be sold and their price was set. Accordingly, one is permitted to take them with the intent of paying for it. Ravina did it in this manner in order to demonstrate that Runya was pleased with the protection afforded by the fence. It was therefore not regarded as stealing at all; it only appeared that way.
He also answers that it is only forbidden if the person’s intent is to pain his fellow. Here, it was done to bring about a correct judgment.
This answer, however, is somewhat problematic, for the Gemora there states that it is forbidden to steal even if the intent is to provide him with the keifel (double the value; if someone wishes to give charity to a poor person, but he refuses, he could steal from him and the keifel will serve as his charity).
Read more!
Runya had a field which was enclosed on all four sides by fields of Ravina. Ravina fenced them and said to Runya, “Pay me (your share) what I have spent for the fencing.” Runya refused to pay. Then Ravina said, “Pay me at least the cost of a cheap fence of reeds.” He again refused. Ravina said, “Then pay me the hire of a watchman.” He still refused. One day Ravina saw Runya harvesting dates from his palm trees, and he said to his sharecropper, “Go and (in Runya’s presence) take a cluster of dates from him.” He went to take them, but Runya shouted at him, whereupon Ravina said, “You have demonstrated through this that you are satisfied with the fence (and happy that it offers protection for your trees). Even if it is only goats that you are afraid of, does your field not need guarding?” He replied, “A goat can be driven off with a shout (so there is no purpose for a fence).” Ravina asked him, “But don’t you require a man to shout at it?”
They went before Rava, who said to him: Go and appease Ravina with what he accepted (the payment for half a watchman), and if not, I will issue judgment against you according to Rav Huna’s interpretation of the ruling of Rabbi Yosi (and you would be required to pay for half the actual cost of the fence).
The Ritva asks from a Gemora in Bava Metzia (61b), which states that one should not steal in order to pain someone. If so, how was Ravina allowed to send his agent to steal?
He answers that the dates in this case were ready to be sold and their price was set. Accordingly, one is permitted to take them with the intent of paying for it. Ravina did it in this manner in order to demonstrate that Runya was pleased with the protection afforded by the fence. It was therefore not regarded as stealing at all; it only appeared that way.
He also answers that it is only forbidden if the person’s intent is to pain his fellow. Here, it was done to bring about a correct judgment.
This answer, however, is somewhat problematic, for the Gemora there states that it is forbidden to steal even if the intent is to provide him with the keifel (double the value; if someone wishes to give charity to a poor person, but he refuses, he could steal from him and the keifel will serve as his charity).
Posted by Avromi at 8/27/2009 04:52:00 PM 0 comments
Labels: daf yomi, Gemora Bava Basra 5, Ritva, stealing
Thursday, June 18, 2009
Paying for Terumah
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The Gemora cites a braisa: If someone steals terumah but did not eat it, he pays keifel (double) the value of the terumah. If he ate it (accidentally after he stole it), he pays twice the principle plus one fifth. The value of one principle plus one fifth is from chulin produce, and one principle is paid with money according to the value of terumah.
The gemora in Pesachim (32a) is uncertain what the halachah is if one steals terumah from a Kohen and he eats it. Does he pay according to the measure – that is, he pays with unconsecrated produce in the amount of terumah produce that he stole – even if the produce went up in value? Or perhaps he pays according to the value which he stole, and therefore, if the produce price went up in value, he can give less produce which equals the value in which he stole. The Gemora does not resolve this.
The Mishnah Lamelech wonders how it would be evaluated according to value. Do we evaluated how much the stolen terumah itself is worth (which would be less than chulin), or do we view it as if it would have been chulin produce? He cites an opinion of the Ra”sh that it is evaluated as if it would have been chulin produce.
The Tosfos Yom Tov derives from Rashi in our sugya that he pays according to the value of terumah.
The Minchas Chinuch makes the following distinction: If a non-Kohen eats terumah that belongs to him (it was inherited from his mother’s father), he can pay according to the value of terumah, for the payment is not on account of stealing; rather, it is to receive atonement for his sin. However, a non-Kohen who steals terumah and eats it, he must pay according to its value as if it would be chulin produce. This is because of the following: If he would pay a lesser amount of chulin produce, immediately after he designates the produce for payment, which serves as his atonement, the produce becomes terumah. This would cause the price to drop, and it would emerge that he is paying less than the value of terumah in which he stole.
Read more!
The Gemora cites a braisa: If someone steals terumah but did not eat it, he pays keifel (double) the value of the terumah. If he ate it (accidentally after he stole it), he pays twice the principle plus one fifth. The value of one principle plus one fifth is from chulin produce, and one principle is paid with money according to the value of terumah.
The gemora in Pesachim (32a) is uncertain what the halachah is if one steals terumah from a Kohen and he eats it. Does he pay according to the measure – that is, he pays with unconsecrated produce in the amount of terumah produce that he stole – even if the produce went up in value? Or perhaps he pays according to the value which he stole, and therefore, if the produce price went up in value, he can give less produce which equals the value in which he stole. The Gemora does not resolve this.
The Mishnah Lamelech wonders how it would be evaluated according to value. Do we evaluated how much the stolen terumah itself is worth (which would be less than chulin), or do we view it as if it would have been chulin produce? He cites an opinion of the Ra”sh that it is evaluated as if it would have been chulin produce.
The Tosfos Yom Tov derives from Rashi in our sugya that he pays according to the value of terumah.
The Minchas Chinuch makes the following distinction: If a non-Kohen eats terumah that belongs to him (it was inherited from his mother’s father), he can pay according to the value of terumah, for the payment is not on account of stealing; rather, it is to receive atonement for his sin. However, a non-Kohen who steals terumah and eats it, he must pay according to its value as if it would be chulin produce. This is because of the following: If he would pay a lesser amount of chulin produce, immediately after he designates the produce for payment, which serves as his atonement, the produce becomes terumah. This would cause the price to drop, and it would emerge that he is paying less than the value of terumah in which he stole.
Posted by Avromi at 6/18/2009 05:30:00 PM 1 comments
Labels: daf yomi, Gemora Bava Metzia 54, Gemora Pesachim 32, minchas chinuch, mishna l'melech, stealing, terumah
Thursday, May 07, 2009
Partners Stealing
By: Rabbi Avi Lebowitz
The Gemora says that if partners steal they are both liable, but if Reuven asks Shimon to steal for him, only Shimon is liable.
Rashi explains that the case of partners stealing is when one partner does the act of stealing for both of them. Since he does it on behalf of both of them, they are both liable.
Tosfos disagrees because we would only say that one cannot be an agent for a transgression on the act of shechitah to be liable four or five, but on the act of stealing, even if Reuven and Shimon are partners, we would not say that Shimon can serve as Reuven’s agent to make Reuven liable for stealing. Therefore, the only case that Reuven would be liable is when he commits the act of stealing together with Shimon.
The Maharitz Chayus points out that this is difficult even according to Tosfos. Why would we say that when Reuven and Shimon pick it up together - since he acquires it for himself, he may also acquire it for his fellow? Even when they steal it together, since we have a principle that one cannot be an agent for a transgression, Reuven is not able to serve as Shimon’s agent to steal it, and Shimon cannot serve as Reuven’s agent, so it should be considered from each one’s perspective as if the other half of the cloak is still lying on the ground and they cannot acquire it?
He explains based on the Sm”a (C.M. 182), who says that one cannot be an agent for a transgression is based upon the idea that the sender doesn’t really expect the agent to violate the prohibition, because he knows that the agent should listen to Hashem rather than him. This only makes sense in a case where the sender maintains his innocence, but in our case, where both Reuven and Shimon are doing an act of stealing, they aren’t innocent and cannot claim that they didn’t expect the other person to follow through with the agency of a transgression. Therefore, in the case where Reuven and Shimon are doing the transgression together, we say that one can be an agent for a transgression and each one serves as the agent of the other to help him acquire it.
Posted by Avromi at 5/07/2009 05:12:00 PM 0 comments
Labels: daf yomi, Gemora Bava Metzia 8, partners, Reb Avi Lebowitz, stealing
Thursday, March 26, 2009
Mumar l'hachis and l'teavon
Desecrating Shabbos
By: Reb Avi Lebowitz
Rabban Yochanan ben Zakkai’s students asked of him (Bava Kamma 79) : Why is the Torah stricter on a thief than on a robber. He replied: The robber puts the honor of the servant (man) on the same level as the honor of his owner (Hashem),whereas the thief does not put the honor of the servant on the same level as the honor of the master (for by stealing covertly, he is displaying a fear of man, but not Hashem). He made, as it were, the eye of the one Below (Hashem) as if it would not be seeing, and the ear of the one Below as if it would not be hearing, as it says: Woe to them who hide in depths to conceal their counsel from Hashem, and their deeds are in the dark, and they say, “Who sees us, and who knows of us?” And it is written: And they say, “Hashem will not see, neither will the God of Jacob give heed.” And it is written: For they say, “Hashem has forsaken the earth and Hashem does not see.”
Many years ago (14 Teves 5761), I had a question based on the halachah found in Hilchos Shechita (siman 2) - One who violates Shabbos in public is considered a mumar for the entire torah tantamount to one who worships avoda zara, and his shechitah is invalid just as the shechitah of an idolater. But, one who violates Shabbos in private, although he is not trusted, so long as there are mashgichim who determine that he shechted properly, his shechitah is valid. Based on the Gemora’s logic by ganav and gazlan, we should consider one who desecrates Shabbos in private to be worse than one who desecrates Shabbos in public!?
R' Moshe (Igros O.C. 1:33) raises this question and based on it, he is mechadesh an important yesod. It is not clear why one who desecrates Shabbos in public is so severe, but R' Moshe suggests that one who violates Shabbos in public is not just a mumar l’teavon (a heretic out of desire), but the fact that he is doing it in public indicates that he is a mumar l’hachis (a heretic out of spite). Although the concept of the Gemora is true, that one who steals in private and hides from Hashem is worse, that is when both the act in private and the act in public are for the sake of fulfilling his. However, when one violates Shabbos in public, he enters a new realm of being a “mechalel Shabbos l’hachis,” which is certainly worse than merely being motivated by desires. Even if deep down, he is only doing it to satisfy his desires, we do not regard his inner thoughts, and the act is an act of l’hachis.
Based on this, he suggests that this only applies at a time when people understand the severity of Shabbos, so that when one violates Shabbos publicly, it is an indication that he has a complete disregard for the Shabbos, but nowadays, where people no longer take Shabbos seriously, and their desires would bring them to desecrate Shabbos in public just as fast as it would bring them to desecrate Shabbos in private, even one who desecrates Shabbos in public will not have the status of an idolater (and therefore his shechitah is valid and he can be counted for a minyan).
I had an alternate approach to answer this question. Stealing is an aveira between two fellow men that every society recognizes as wrong and destructive. It is part of human nature to consider theft to be bad, and is inherent in human nature to try and hide these actions from others. When one hides these actions from people because he is worried that people will think less of him, or may catch him to punish him, he is outwardly displaying a fear for people that exceeds his fear of Hashem. Since it is part of human nature to hide acts of theft, we assume his intention is to hide it from other people. However, Shabbos is between man and God, and therefore the violation of Shabbos is not considered bad by human nature. When one hides his desecration of Shabbos from others, we assume that it is not because he is afraid of people, because people don't view desecrating Shabbos as inherently bad. So why would he hide his actions from people? We assume his attempt to hide his desecration of Shabbos is out of respect for Hashem, rather than trying to hide from Hashem. But when he is desecrating Shabbos in public, we consider it to be a lack of respect, violating Shabbos in the open showing no regard for it at all.
Read more!
By: Reb Avi Lebowitz
Rabban Yochanan ben Zakkai’s students asked of him (Bava Kamma 79) : Why is the Torah stricter on a thief than on a robber. He replied: The robber puts the honor of the servant (man) on the same level as the honor of his owner (Hashem),whereas the thief does not put the honor of the servant on the same level as the honor of the master (for by stealing covertly, he is displaying a fear of man, but not Hashem). He made, as it were, the eye of the one Below (Hashem) as if it would not be seeing, and the ear of the one Below as if it would not be hearing, as it says: Woe to them who hide in depths to conceal their counsel from Hashem, and their deeds are in the dark, and they say, “Who sees us, and who knows of us?” And it is written: And they say, “Hashem will not see, neither will the God of Jacob give heed.” And it is written: For they say, “Hashem has forsaken the earth and Hashem does not see.”
Many years ago (14 Teves 5761), I had a question based on the halachah found in Hilchos Shechita (siman 2) - One who violates Shabbos in public is considered a mumar for the entire torah tantamount to one who worships avoda zara, and his shechitah is invalid just as the shechitah of an idolater. But, one who violates Shabbos in private, although he is not trusted, so long as there are mashgichim who determine that he shechted properly, his shechitah is valid. Based on the Gemora’s logic by ganav and gazlan, we should consider one who desecrates Shabbos in private to be worse than one who desecrates Shabbos in public!?
R' Moshe (Igros O.C. 1:33) raises this question and based on it, he is mechadesh an important yesod. It is not clear why one who desecrates Shabbos in public is so severe, but R' Moshe suggests that one who violates Shabbos in public is not just a mumar l’teavon (a heretic out of desire), but the fact that he is doing it in public indicates that he is a mumar l’hachis (a heretic out of spite). Although the concept of the Gemora is true, that one who steals in private and hides from Hashem is worse, that is when both the act in private and the act in public are for the sake of fulfilling his. However, when one violates Shabbos in public, he enters a new realm of being a “mechalel Shabbos l’hachis,” which is certainly worse than merely being motivated by desires. Even if deep down, he is only doing it to satisfy his desires, we do not regard his inner thoughts, and the act is an act of l’hachis.
Based on this, he suggests that this only applies at a time when people understand the severity of Shabbos, so that when one violates Shabbos publicly, it is an indication that he has a complete disregard for the Shabbos, but nowadays, where people no longer take Shabbos seriously, and their desires would bring them to desecrate Shabbos in public just as fast as it would bring them to desecrate Shabbos in private, even one who desecrates Shabbos in public will not have the status of an idolater (and therefore his shechitah is valid and he can be counted for a minyan).
I had an alternate approach to answer this question. Stealing is an aveira between two fellow men that every society recognizes as wrong and destructive. It is part of human nature to consider theft to be bad, and is inherent in human nature to try and hide these actions from others. When one hides these actions from people because he is worried that people will think less of him, or may catch him to punish him, he is outwardly displaying a fear for people that exceeds his fear of Hashem. Since it is part of human nature to hide acts of theft, we assume his intention is to hide it from other people. However, Shabbos is between man and God, and therefore the violation of Shabbos is not considered bad by human nature. When one hides his desecration of Shabbos from others, we assume that it is not because he is afraid of people, because people don't view desecrating Shabbos as inherently bad. So why would he hide his actions from people? We assume his attempt to hide his desecration of Shabbos is out of respect for Hashem, rather than trying to hide from Hashem. But when he is desecrating Shabbos in public, we consider it to be a lack of respect, violating Shabbos in the open showing no regard for it at all.
Posted by Avromi at 3/26/2009 04:22:00 PM 0 comments
Labels: Gemora Bava Kamma 79, mummar, Reb Avi Lebowitz, Reb Moshe Feinstein, shabbos, shechitah, stealing
Wednesday, March 18, 2009
Replacing the Lost Esrog
By: Rabbi Mendel Weinbach
Ohr Sameach
A Jew borrows a very expensive esrog from his neighbor to fulfill the mitzvah of taking the four species on Sukkos. Before he has a chance to return it, it somehow gets lost and he must now compensate the owner with another esrog. But why should he be required to purchase a similarly expensive esrog if he can provide him with a perfectly kosher one that is not of the same quality but much cheaper?
This question was dealt with by two great halachic authorities in connection with our Gemora (Bava Kamma 78) . The Sage Rava rules that if someone set aside an ox for fulfillment of his vow and that ox was stolen, the thief can replace it with a sheep and the victim cannot demand an ox because he wished to bring a sacrifice of greater quality. One opinion is that the case of the esrog is similar to this case and the ruling should be the same. A dissenting opinion is found, however, in the Responsa of Chacham Tzvi (Responsa 102). In the case of our Gemora, he points out, the thief did not cause his victim any loss of money, while he did so in the case of the esrog. That expensive esrog had the potential of being sold for a high price, while an animal set aside for sacrifice is not for sale.
Posted by Avromi at 3/18/2009 08:21:00 PM 0 comments
Labels: chacham tzvi, daf yomi, esrog, Gemora Bava Kamma 78, ohr sameach, stealing
Tuesday, March 10, 2009
Paying for its Worth at the Beginning
Rav said: A thief must pay the principle according to the value of the stolen object at the time that it was stolen. He pays the double payment and the fourfold and fivefold payments according to the value of the object at the time that he was sued in Beis Din.
Tosfos asks: What is the novelty of Rav’s ruling that a thief must pay the principle according to the value of the stolen object at the time that it was stolen? This is an explicit Mishna below that a thief pays according to the object’s value at the time that it was stolen!?
They answer: This, in fact, is not a novelty at all. Rav is teaching us that the double payment and the fourfold and fivefold payments are paid according to the value of the object at the time that he was sued in Beis Din.
The Shitah Mekubetzes writes that the thief pays the double payment and the fourfold and fivefold payments according to the value of the object at the time that he was sued in Beis Din is completely logical, for since the thief is not immediately liable in these payments, for if he wishes, he can admit and be exempt from paying. He therefore pays according to its value at the time that he was sued in Beis Din.
The Rosh seems to be uncertain if this, in fact, is a logical argument, or if this is something which may be derived only based upon a Scriptural verse.
The Machaneh Efraim discusses the following case: If one damages an object belonging to another; at the time of the damage, it was worth five, but at the time of the payment it was only worth four – how much is the damager required to pay? Perhaps the halachah that one pays according to the value that the object was worth at the time that it was stolen applies only to a thief, for that is where the Torah teaches us the halachah; however, by a damager, perhaps he is only required to return a similar object to the one which he damaged, even if now it is worth less?
He concludes that this would be dependent upon the Rishonim in our sugya. If the halachah that a thief pays according to what the object is worth at the time it was stolen is purely logical, then it stands to reason that this should apply to a damager as well. However, if it is something that is derived from a Scriptural verse, perhaps it only applies by a thief, and not by a damager.
Read more!
Tosfos asks: What is the novelty of Rav’s ruling that a thief must pay the principle according to the value of the stolen object at the time that it was stolen? This is an explicit Mishna below that a thief pays according to the object’s value at the time that it was stolen!?
They answer: This, in fact, is not a novelty at all. Rav is teaching us that the double payment and the fourfold and fivefold payments are paid according to the value of the object at the time that he was sued in Beis Din.
The Shitah Mekubetzes writes that the thief pays the double payment and the fourfold and fivefold payments according to the value of the object at the time that he was sued in Beis Din is completely logical, for since the thief is not immediately liable in these payments, for if he wishes, he can admit and be exempt from paying. He therefore pays according to its value at the time that he was sued in Beis Din.
The Rosh seems to be uncertain if this, in fact, is a logical argument, or if this is something which may be derived only based upon a Scriptural verse.
The Machaneh Efraim discusses the following case: If one damages an object belonging to another; at the time of the damage, it was worth five, but at the time of the payment it was only worth four – how much is the damager required to pay? Perhaps the halachah that one pays according to the value that the object was worth at the time that it was stolen applies only to a thief, for that is where the Torah teaches us the halachah; however, by a damager, perhaps he is only required to return a similar object to the one which he damaged, even if now it is worth less?
He concludes that this would be dependent upon the Rishonim in our sugya. If the halachah that a thief pays according to what the object is worth at the time it was stolen is purely logical, then it stands to reason that this should apply to a damager as well. However, if it is something that is derived from a Scriptural verse, perhaps it only applies by a thief, and not by a damager.
Posted by Avromi at 3/10/2009 12:26:00 PM 0 comments
Labels: daf yomi, Gemora Bava Kamma 65, machaneh efraim, stealing
Wednesday, December 17, 2008
Stealing from an Idolater
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The Gemora (Kiddushin 63) proves that Rabbi Meir holds a man may sell something that is not yet in existence from the following braisa: If a man said to a woman, “You shall be betrothed to me after I convert,” or “After you shall convert,” or “After I shall have been set free from slavery,” or “After you have been set free,” or “After your husband dies,” or “After your sister (my wife) dies,” or “After your yavam has submitted to chalitzah from you,” she, Rabbi Meir ruled, is legally betrothed! [The kiddushin is effective when the respective conditions are fulfilled, though at the time of the betrothal they were still unfulfilled; this indicates that an act that involves something that is not yet in existence is nevertheless, valid.]
The Acharonim ask: The Gemora in Bava Kamma (70b) explains that the acquisition using money (kinyan kesef) functions in the following way: When the seller receives the money, he becomes obligated to give the item being exchanged with the money. Now according to those that hold that it is permitted to steal from a gentile, how can the idolater betroth this woman with money after he converts? The woman is not obligated to return the money, and if she will lose the money, she would not be required to compensate him! If so, where is the kinyan?
Reb Shimon Shkop answers based upon the opinion of the Yereim, who says that even according to those that hold that it is permitted to steal from a gentile, one cannot fulfill his mitzvah with an esrog that he stole from a gentile. This is because it is not regarded as “his,” for the Torah did not render their money ownerless that anyone has the right to possess their money. “Stealing from an idolater is permitted” means that there is no prohibition against keeping that which was stolen from them. However, since it does not belong to the Jew, he still has an obligation to return it to its rightful owner, and he would be liable to compensate the gentile if he would lose it. Accordingly, the kinyan of money would still apply to an idolater.
The Gemora (Kiddushin 63) proves that Rabbi Meir holds a man may sell something that is not yet in existence from the following braisa: If a man said to a woman, “You shall be betrothed to me after I convert,” or “After you shall convert,” or “After I shall have been set free from slavery,” or “After you have been set free,” or “After your husband dies,” or “After your sister (my wife) dies,” or “After your yavam has submitted to chalitzah from you,” she, Rabbi Meir ruled, is legally betrothed! [The kiddushin is effective when the respective conditions are fulfilled, though at the time of the betrothal they were still unfulfilled; this indicates that an act that involves something that is not yet in existence is nevertheless, valid.]
The Acharonim ask: The Gemora in Bava Kamma (70b) explains that the acquisition using money (kinyan kesef) functions in the following way: When the seller receives the money, he becomes obligated to give the item being exchanged with the money. Now according to those that hold that it is permitted to steal from a gentile, how can the idolater betroth this woman with money after he converts? The woman is not obligated to return the money, and if she will lose the money, she would not be required to compensate him! If so, where is the kinyan?
Reb Shimon Shkop answers based upon the opinion of the Yereim, who says that even according to those that hold that it is permitted to steal from a gentile, one cannot fulfill his mitzvah with an esrog that he stole from a gentile. This is because it is not regarded as “his,” for the Torah did not render their money ownerless that anyone has the right to possess their money. “Stealing from an idolater is permitted” means that there is no prohibition against keeping that which was stolen from them. However, since it does not belong to the Jew, he still has an obligation to return it to its rightful owner, and he would be liable to compensate the gentile if he would lose it. Accordingly, the kinyan of money would still apply to an idolater.
Read more!
Posted by Avromi at 12/17/2008 06:56:00 PM 0 comments
Labels: daf yomi, davar she'lo ba l'olam, Gemora Bava Kamma, Gemora Kiddushin, idolater, kinyan kesef, Reb Shimon Shkop, stealing
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