Strategy/Wikimedia movement/2017/Sources/Polska Wikipedia

name of group Polish Wikipedia dedicated discussion page

virtual location (page-link) or physical location (city/state/country) w:pl:Wikipedia:Strategia Wikimedia 2017, w:pl:Dyskusja Wikipedii:Strategia Wikimedia 2017, first week archive: w:pl:Dyskusja Wikipedii:Strategia Wikimedia 2017 1 tydzien, second week archive: w:pl:Dyskusja Wikipedii:Strategia Wikimedia 2017 2 tydzien, third week archive: w:pl:Dyskusja_Wikipedii:Strategia_Wikimedia_2017_3_tydzien

Location type (e.g. local wiki, Facebook, in-person discussion, telephone conference) Polish Wikipedia

# of participants in this discussion (a rough count) 35

Line Statement (summary sentence) Keywords

(追記) (追記ここまで)1 Multilanguage content is a big asset for Wikimedia projects, but there is no good support for switching editors from one language to another in WIkipedia and no support for translations. [1] Multi-language, ease of editing and translating

(追記) (追記ここまで)2 Recently WMF started to be engaged in anti-Trump politics which is wrong (according to the user). He suggests that 100% political neutrality is a key issue to not to loose editors with various, contradictory political POV. [2] Politics, NPOV, WMF

(追記) (追記ここまで)3 WMF Board of Trustees does not represent well the community. [3] WMF, representation of communitiy in decisive bodies

(追記) (追記ここまで)4 Strong side of the WIkipedia is its good visibility in google search engine it should be kept as long as possible.[4] Visibility in search engines

(追記) (追記ここまで)5 Wikipedia is still open for new editors but it is harder and harder to join due to complicated rules, un-easy requirement to add verifiable sources, and the fact that most popular, easy to write areas are already covered. Wikipedia needs better help pages - probably written from scratch again.[5] Ease of editing, help pages.

(追記) (追記ここまで)6 Strong side of the Wikipedia is its openess for niche topics which can be developed by hobbyists in the field, but the problem is, that the more articles, the harder is to keep them up-to-date. Therefore it is worth consider to hire paid editors to keep updated simple facts such as sport results, dates of deaths etc. Wikidata may help but still someone have to update the data.[6] Niche topics, updates of content, paid editing, wikidata updating.

(追記) (追記ここまで)7 The discussion regarding the above topic (6) revealed that the user suggests buying access to profesional databases in order to semi-automatically update relevant data. The payments for editing could be done on "pay per edit" or "pay per hour" basis.[7] Paid editing, databases.

(追記) (追記ここまで)8 User proposed to focus on creating one multilingual Wikipedia (just as we have one Commons) with tools to translate same articles automatically in various languages as it happens on Meta or Commons. [8] Multilingual content, translations, unification.

(追記) (追記ここまで)9 The user suggested that lack of translations of key pages on WMF wiki to Polish such as [9] means that WMF is "antipolish". It was explained to him where he can make the translation and the problem of limited Polish users willing to make translations on meta. [10] Translations

(追記) (追記ここまで)10 Problem with growing demands for higher quality content which raises the demands for writers and the speed up of the world in general. There always be limited number of people able to write good articles in Wikipedia (because of intellectual requirements mainly).[11] User retention, changes in Wikipedia interface, old an new editors.

(追記) (追記ここまで)11 The above discussion (10) was continued - the main point of dispute was if new interface improvements are really a problem for existing editors using as an example hypothetical situation that traditional source code editor is disabled and only visual one is available.[12] Visual Editor, old vs new users.

(追記) (追記ここまで)12 In continuation of discussion (10) it is been again raised the issue of strategic decision if the software development should be focused on new technologies and potential new users or rather on keeping existing community. [13] Software development, editors community

(追記) (追記ここまで)13 Movement should strictly focus on general education and dissemination of knowledge, and stay away from any policy-making, even stop being active in copyright law lobbying (such as for freedom of panorama) as well as gender-gap issues (no for both special encouraging woman editors and for filing gender gap in Wikipedia content). [14] Political NPOV, lobbying, gender gap policy

(追記) (追記ここまで)14 WMF should be lowered back to the support organization, not the organization leading the movement. Leading the movement should rather be somehow given back to editors communities of projects.[15] WMF, leadership of movement

(追記) (追記ここまで)15 Suggestion made to support more sister projects, especially Wikipodróże (Polish Wikivoyage), Wikinews and Wikibooks, in hope it will reach new audience and may expand in similar way as Wikipedia did.[16] Sister projects

(追記) (追記ここまで)16 The main driving force to edit Wikipedia and upload files to Commons is to have a fun of being a creator of the content which is then cited and reused by many others.[17] Editors motivations,, outreach.

(追記) (追記ここまで)17 Low numbers of movie and sound files on Commons is due to the requirement of conversion to unpopular and uncommon ogg/ogv formats. It spoils Wikipedia as well, as it is one of the main reasons why we have so little media files in Wikipedia articles. There is great need for on-line, easy to use mp3/mpeg coverter to ogg to be a part of upload wizzard.[18] media files, file formats, Commons

(追記) (追記ここまで)18 Wikipedias in various languages should remain independent of each other in terms of notability rules. [19] Wikipedia's independence, notability rules.

(追記) (追記ここまで)19 The issue or recent changes patrolling and better technical support for tools helping patrolers as crucial part of Wikipedia quality control.[20] recent changes, quality control, tools

(追記) (追記ここまで)20 The issue between newbies and the number of experience users decrease. The less experienced users the more work for them with newbies so they cannot be friendly enough. [21] Newbies, experience users, user retention.

(追記) (追記ここまで)21 People don't know they can edit. Mass media action/adveratising campaign is needed. [22] Outreach, media, new users

(追記) (追記ここまで)22 New type of editing contests are needed - focused on filling content gaps. [23] Content gap, contests.

(追記) (追記ここまで)23 Kashubian Wikipedia's community is almost dead. The idea to re-establish it by special grant to clean up old content and interface and then support initial editing. [24] Wikipedias in small languages, paid editing.

(追記) (追記ここまで)24 Small languages Wikipedia are rather focused on their own culture than dissemination of general knowledge. The idea to create new type of the projects "Local Wikipedia" with "original research allowed" attitude to collect local, spoken knowledge. [25] Wikipedias in small languages, local culture, spoken knowledge.

(追記) (追記ここまで)25 What content could be added to Wikisource from small ethnoelects - some old documents and poetry, but it does not expand or cover the real knowledge of their culture. [26] Wikisource, small languages/ethonelects.

(追記) (追記ここまで)26 Wikisource is potentially great project, but it is affected by MediaWiki updates made mainly for Wikipedia and causing many problems in Wikisource. MediaWiki seems to be not very well supported by MediaWiki - so maybe the software could do the job? [27] Wikisource, MediaWiki, technical problems.

(追記) (追記ここまで)27 The on-line communication between various groups of users and organization should be improved, because now lack of this causes many problems.[28] Communication, communities.

(追記) (追記ここまで)28 Wikidata was created to solve the problems with updates of simple facts in Wikipedias - but now it started to be independent project with its own mission to collect all possibly available data. It should be rather more focused on Wikipedia support than on its own needs. [29] Wikidata, software support for Wikipedia.

(追記) (追記ここまで)29 There is a clear division of readers and editors in Wikipedia, which is due to technical editing problems, Readers are not turn to editors as it was originally thought but rather vast majority of readers are not encouraged to edit, and even if they they are disappointed by poor user experience and unfriendly atmosphere.[30] Readers, editors retention, contributions barriers.

(追記) (追記ここまで)30 Thematic wiki-projects in Wikipedia doesn't work very well due to shrinking number of editors. This causes lack of updates and improvements of articles written many years ago, which remains untouched for years.[31] Thematic wikiprojets, older articles, updating Wikipedia

(追記) (追記ここまで)31 Sources used by Wikipedians are not very good, and there is a lack of sources quality evaluations which creates general quality problems of articles, which makes Wikipedia less reliable.[32] Sources, reliability of Wikipedia content

(追記) (追記ここまで)32 Suggestion was made to create a new tools to improve new users experience - a special namespace or project called "prepedia" to which newbie articles may be sent and safely work on instead of deletion or reverting. [33] newbie, user experience, tools

(追記) (追記ここまで)33 New actions to gain new editors are needed such us contests focused on newbies.[34] newbies, contests, outreach

(追記) (追記ここまで)34 WMF should remain financially independent and be still based by on small donors donations not big donations, who might try to control movement by financial threats to remove funds. [35] WMF independence, funds

(追記) (追記ここまで)35 Better outreach to find new editors is needed. Current methods (workshops, social media outreach) don't work. YouTube movies explaining how to edit in user-friendly way might help. [36] outreach, new editors, instructional movies

(追記) (追記ここまで)36 A new outreach action in facebook (and other social media) should be set up to reach new users. Even paid advertising campaigns should be taken into consideration.[37] facebook, outreach, new users

(追記) (追記ここまで)37 There should be our own solutuion for dead-links problems - such as own archive system. [38] dead links, archives

(追記) (追記ここまで)38 The core value of our movement is copyright freedom, therefore we should advocate for positive changes of copyright law, such as extending freedom of panorama, with other organizations[39] copyright, licensing, cooperation with others

(追記) (追記ここまで)39 Suggestion made to extend the term "sister projects" to the ones maintained by other organizations but having similar goals in order to enable more open cooperation with them.[40] sister projects, cooperation

(追記) (追記ここまで)40 More openness is needed from Wikipedia community towards cooperation with non-Wikimedia organizations having similar goals as it might also raise the number of Wikipedians.[41] openness of community, collaboration with other NGO.

(追記) (追記ここまで)42 Our goal is to create a "sum of all human knowledge" but it should rather mean an abstract of the knowledge than a "collection of everything" as the important information is then buried in a dust. [42] deletionism, selection of Wikipedia material.

(追記) (追記ここまで)43 In order to attract more good editors (especially experts) we need to improve the current content by better quality control and harder editing rule. [43] user retention, quality of content

(追記) (追記ここまで)44 Repeated issue of not well thought of interface changes which in theory are about to attract newbies but only makes angry current editors; newbies are not the issue, the real issue is quality of Wikipedia content.[44] newbies, MediaWiki interface

(追記) (追記ここまで)45 WMF should only concentrate on supporting Wikipedia, no political advocacy or pushing existing editors to behave differently.[45] WMF neutrality, quality of Wikipedia

(追記) (追記ここまで)46 "Sum of human knowledge" cannot be understood as US/English centered knowledge ignoring local POV; This problem is seen on multilingual projects such as Commons and Wikidata, which force local users to document and categorize everything in English.[46] Multilingalism, local POV, English as lingua franca, Commons/Wikidata

(追記) (追記ここまで)48 Wikipedia is read by everyone, therefore it has high level of responsibility over what people know and think; the most important question is for what and how do we use this impact on society and world.[47] impact, Wikipedia

(追記) (追記ここまで)49 Wikipedia is something obvious for generation "Y", which was born after Wikipedia was created; but it raised a danger that this generation might treat it as something given for granted and not thinking where it comes from at all, therefore the biggest challenge is to survive at all. [48] generation "Y", Survival of Wikipedia

(追記) (追記ここまで)50 In order to survive Wikipedia must be more focused on improving existing articles than writing new ones, editing and reading should be enjoyable, so happy editors and readers may donate financially, but in order to achieve this - serious changes in editing interface and most friendly user experience is needed.[49] Survival of Wikipedia, editing, user-experience

(追記) (追記ここまで)51 We should apply more wikidata based enhancements for editors - move source's references and all simple facts to wikidata and then use them to simplify editing, that might completely change the editing process to the level that some mobile editing is also possible. [50] Wikidata, source's references, ease of editing

(追記) (追記ここまで)52 Paid editing by recognized experts should be allowed, otherwise our mission to cover all human knowledge in realiable and trustworthy way is impossible to accomplish [51] Knowledge, reliability, experts, paid editing

(追記) (追記ここまで)53 Foundation should employ people to be responsible for repeatable tasks in Wikipedia such as maintaining contests (such as thematic weeks) special actions (such as hoaxes hunting) , wikiprojects, as well as statistical bots summarizing results of contests and special actions, as well as maintaining and translating meta and help pages; such users could be called "coordinators". [52] paid editors, editing contests, wikiprojects

(追記) (追記ここまで)54 MediaWiki layout should be diversified depending on the type and role of user, so the permanent links on interface are different for readers, newbies and admins [53]. MediaWiki layout, interface usability

(追記) (追記ここまで)55 The general recommendations of maintaining wikis should be created in order to avoid solving already solved problems and also to copy best practices from one wiki to another. [54] wiki cooperation, holistic maintenance, community support

(追記) (追記ここまで)56 Briefing and updates about :"what's going on on other wikis" should be created, translated, and shared using village pumps of wikis; something like Wikipedia Signpost but for all projects and languages. [55] wiki cooperation, internal wiki ideas exchange

(追記) (追記ここまで)57 Better use of Commons as general repository of media, not only for Wikipedia; 3D models in native formats, films, etc.[56] Commons, 3D formats.

(追記) (追記ここまで)58 Teaching of Wikipedia model of colaboration, which might be usefull not only for Wikimedia projects, but also inspire other projects and make the world more wiki-like [57] wiki collaboration model, cooperation with external world

Line Statement (summary sentence) Keywords Number of people who discussed

(追記) (追記ここまで)1 Multilingual content is a big asset for Wikimedia projects, but there is no good support for switching editors from one language to another. The user raised the problem that he knows how to edit Polish Wikipedia but does not know how to start new article in any other language version. According to him software should somehow encourage 9sers to make easy translations of articles from one Wikipedia to another on one, single platform. Multi-language, ease of editing and translating 2

(追記) (追記ここまで)2 Recently WMF started to be engaged in anti-Trump politics which is wrong (according to the user). He suggests that 100% political neutrality is a key issue to not to loose editors with various, contradictory political POV. Politics, NPOV, WMF 4

(追記) (追記ここまで)3 WMF Board of Trustees does not represent well the community. Recent case of removing member of the Board raised questions if WMF is secretly led by unknown, real "decisive bodies". Suggestions to change the Bylaw of WMF to make sure that vast majority of members are directly elected by community and assure that elected members cannot be removed due to different than majority views. WMF, representation of community in decisive bodies 4

(追記) (追記ここまで)4 Strong side of the WIkipedia is its good visibility in google search engine it should be kept as long as possible Visibility in search engines 2

(追記) (追記ここまで)5 Wikipedia is still open for new editors but it is harder and harder to join due to complicated rules, un-easy requirement to add verifiable sources, and the fact that most popular, easy to write areas are already covered. Wikipedia needs better help pages - probably written from scratch again. Ease of editing, help pages. 3

(追記) (追記ここまで)6 Strong side of the Wikipedia is its openness for niche topics which can be developed by hobbyists in the field, but the problem is, that the more articles, the harder is to keep them up-to-date. Therefore it is worth consider to hire paid editors to keep updated simple facts such as sport results, dates of deaths etc. Wikidata may help but still someone have to update the data. Niche topics, updates of content, paid editing, wikidata updating. 3

(追記) (追記ここまで)7 The discussion regarding the above topic (6) revealed that the user suggests buying access to professional databases in order to semi-automatically update relevant data. The payments for editing could be done on "pay per edit" or "pay per hour" basis. Paid editing, databases. 3

(追記) (追記ここまで)8 User proposed to focus on creating one multilingual Wikipedia (just as we have one Commons) with tools to translate same articles automatically in various languages as it happens on Meta or Commons. He suggested that instead of having a bunch of Wikipedias with their own communities would be better to translate and merge best articles into one multilingual and media-reach project. That could be especially beneficial for less active languages such as some African ones. Multilingual content, translations, unification. 2

(追記) (追記ここまで)9 The user suggested that lack of translations of key pages on WMF wiki to Polish such as [https://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/FAQ/en] means that WMF is "antipolish". It was explained to him where he can make the translation and the problem of limited Polish users willing to make translations on meta. Translations 4

(追記) (追記ここまで)10 Problem with growing demands for higher quality content which raises the demands for writers and the speed up of the world in general. There always be limited number of people able to write good articles in Wikipedia (because of intellectual requirements mainly). The majority of such people are not teenagers but rather people at the age of 30+. These people if they are already Wikipedians do not like changes in editing interface. And due to current attitudes of teenagers preferring simple, fast, mobile interfaces, WMF works on changes in this direction. But will this attract teenagers? It might rather discourage older generation of Wikipedian to finally leave the project. So interface changes should be done in such a way to respond to real needs of current users and if done for the future ones, must leave the possibility to edit in "old ways", so everyone is happy. User retention, changes in Wikipedia interface, old an new editors. 7

(追記) (追記ここまで)11 The above discussion (10) was continued - the main point of dispute was if new interface improvements are really a problem for existing editors using as an example hypothetical situation that traditional source code editor is disabled and only visual one is available. It also raised a dispute if the opposition of old users is due to real technical problems or rather a threat that their knowledge about the wiki code no longer is needed and does not give them advantage over new ones. Visual Editor, old vs new users. 7

(追記) (追記ここまで)12 In continuation of discussion (10) it is been again raised the issue of strategic decision if the software development should be focused on new technologies and potential new users or rather on keeping existing community. The final conclusion was the important thing is to have alive and vibrant community in general which means that too fast changes not liked by the current one might effect in destroying the community. So the changes must be well organized, discussed and implemented with great care even if it means slowing down the process. Software development, editors community 7

(追記) (追記ここまで)13 Another voice toward total political neutrality of the movement. Movement should strictly focus on general education and dissemination of knowledge, and stay away from any policy-making, even stop being active in copyright law lobbying (such as for freedom of panorama) as well as gender-gap issues (no for both special encouraging woman editors and for filing gender gap in Wikipedia content). This was disputed by two other users not agreeing with this voice. Political NPOV, lobbying, gender gap policy 3

(追記) (追記ここまで)14 WMF should be lowered back to the support organization, not the organization leading the movement. Leading the movement should rather be somehow given back to editors communities of projects. WMF, leadership of movement 1

(追記) (追記ここまで)15 Suggestion made to support more sister projects, especially Wikipodróże (Polish Wikivoyage), Wikinews and Wikibooks, in hope it will reach new audience and may expand in similar way as Wikipedia did. The other user disagreed suggesting rather total freezing of Wikinews, Wikibooks, Wikiversity, Wikicytaty and Wikipodróże and including tourist and news sections in relevant Wikipedia articles. Out of all sister projects only Wikisources and Wiktionary proved their usefulness and have "critical mass of editors". Sister projects 3

(追記) (追記ここまで)16 The main driving force to edit Wikipedia and upload files to Commons is to have a fun of being a creator of the content which is then cited and reused by many others. We should advertise and explain this fun more in our outreach actions. Editors motivations,, outreach. 2

(追記) (追記ここまで)17 Low numbers of movie and sound files on Commons is due to the requirement of conversion to unpopular and uncommon ogg/ogv formats. It spoils Wikipedia as well, as it is one of the main reasons why we have so little media files in Wikipedia articles. There is great need for on-line, easy to use mp3/mpeg coverter to ogg to be a part of upload wizzard. media files, file formats, Commons 2

(追記) (追記ここまで)18 Wikipedias in various languages should remain independent of each other in terms of notability rules. No unification is needed. Even if there are content gaps between Wikipedias it might be just a decision of local community not to include a certain type of content as not notable. There is also a question if editors community should respond to the readers needs or rather ignore it and create an encyclopedia according to its own dynamics. Wikipedia's independence, notability rules, content gaps. 1

(追記) (追記ここまで)19 Shrinking group of experienced users have more and more work with paroling recent changes therefore they have less time to handle newbies, so the newbies are treated more and more badly. It creates a wishes circle. More technical support for creating tools for recent changes patrolling could help. Such as category recent changes filtering etc. It also affect general community attitude toward newbies and quality control of Wikipedia content. recent changes, quality control, tools, newbies, user retention 2

(追記) (追記ここまで)20 There should be organized big media outreach campaign to teach people they can edit, as Wikipedia is general well known (in Poland) but people don't know they can edit it. Content gap, contests. 2

(追記) (追記ここまで)21 New type co contests are needed to be organized by local chapter/Foundation more focused on content gaps and other important issues, which are abandoned due to lack of editors, such as updates of data, or writing complete sets of articles on certain topic. Content gap, contests. 2

(追記) (追記ここまで)22 Kashubian Wikipedia's community is almost dead. New users are not coming because there is big mess left by the former community, which had some enthusiasm at the beginning but they left the project in big disorder which discourage potential new users. Therefore in order to re-establish the community some initial works are needed which probably won't be done by volunteers. So, a special grant to clean up old content and interface is needed and possibly some paid facilitators seeking actively for new users and also writing some needed content. If not successful, the Kashubian Wikipedia should be closed. Wikipedias in small languages, paid editing. 4

(追記) (追記ここまで)23 Above discussion (22) was continued about real usefulness of the small ethoelect based Wikipedias. Does it really disseminate the knowledge? Small languages Wikipedia are rather focused on their own culture than dissemination of general knowledge. The idea appeared to create new type of the projects "Local (Mini)Wikipedia" with "original research allowed" attitude to collect local, spoken knowledge. Wikipedias in small languages, local culture, spoken knowledge. 4

(追記) (追記ここまで)24

(追記) (追記ここまで)25 4