Steward requests/Bot status/2024-10

Bot status requests

Leaderbot@mrwikipedia

• Wiki: mr.wikipedia.org (list 'crats • (削除) no standard bot policy (削除ここまで) • summary • 'crats rights)
• User: Leaderbot (talk • edits • logs • UserRights • activity • CentralAuth • email • verify 2FA )
• Discussion: wikipedia:mr:विकिपीडिया:सांगकाम्या/विनंत्या#सदस्य:Leaderbot

MGA73bot@yiwikipedia

• Wiki: yi.wikipedia.org (list 'crats • bot policy • summary • 'crats rights)
• User: MGA73bot (talk • edits • logs • UserRights • activity • CentralAuth • email • verify 2FA )
• Discussion: yi:װיקיפּעדיע:באטס/בקשות_פאר_הסכמה#MGA73bot (no comments after 7 days so I request a flag per message on the top of that page)

Leaderbot@bnwikipedia

• Wiki: bn.wikipedia.org (list 'crats • (削除) no standard bot policy (削除ここまで) • summary • 'crats rights)
• User: Leaderbot (talk • edits • logs • UserRights • activity • CentralAuth • email • verify 2FA )
• Discussion: wikipedia:bn:উইকিপিডিয়া:বট/অনুমোদনের_অনুরোধ

Leaderbot@frwikivoyage

• Wiki: fr.wikivoyage.org (list 'crats • (削除) no standard bot policy (削除ここまで) • summary • 'crats rights)
• User: Leaderbot (talk • edits • logs • UserRights • activity • CentralAuth • email • verify 2FA )
• Discussion: wikivoyage:fr:Wikivoyage:Accréditations_des_robots

MGA73bot@liwikipedia

• Wiki: li.wikipedia.org (list 'crats • bot policy • summary • 'crats rights)
• User: MGA73bot (talk • edits • logs • UserRights • activity • CentralAuth • email • verify 2FA )
• Discussion: li:Wikipedia:De_kaffee#Request_for_bot_flag_for_User:MGA73bot (no comments after 7 days so I request a flag per message on the top of that page)

Pafsanias-Bot@ro.wikipedia

• Wiki: ro.wikipedia.org (list 'crats • (削除) no standard bot policy (削除ここまで) • summary • 'crats rights)
• User: Pafsanias-Bot (talk • edits • logs • UserRights • activity • CentralAuth • email • verify 2FA )
• Discussion: ro:Wikipedia:Robot/Cereri_de_aprobare#Pafsanias-Bot

Leaderbot@cswikibooks

• Wiki: cs.wikibooks.org (list 'crats • (削除) no standard bot policy (削除ここまで) • summary • 'crats rights)
• User: Leaderbot (talk • edits • logs • UserRights • activity • CentralAuth • email • verify 2FA )
• Discussion: wikibooks:cs:Wikiknihy:Roboti/Žádosti

Leaderbot@dewikinews

• Wiki: de.wikinews.org (list 'crats • (削除) no standard bot policy (削除ここまで) • summary • 'crats rights)
• User: Leaderbot (talk • edits • logs • UserRights • activity • CentralAuth • email • verify 2FA )
• Discussion: wikinews:de:Wikinews:Bots/Anfragen#Leaderbot

Leaderbot@dewikivoyage

• Wiki: de.wikivoyage.org (list 'crats • (削除) no standard bot policy (削除ここまで) • summary • 'crats rights)
• User: Leaderbot (talk • edits • logs • UserRights • activity • CentralAuth • email • verify 2FA )
• Discussion: wikivoyage:de:Wikivoyage:Skriptkandidaten#Leaderbot

MGA73bot@nds-nlwikipedia

• Wiki: nds-nl.wikipedia.org (list 'crats • bot policy • summary • 'crats rights)
• User: MGA73bot (talk • edits • logs • UserRights • activity • CentralAuth • email • verify 2FA )
• Discussion: nds-nl:Wikipedia:Bot#User:MGA73bot (no comments after 14 days so I request a flag per message on the top of that page)

Leaderbot@dewikisource

• Wiki: de.wikisource.org (list 'crats • (削除) no standard bot policy (削除ここまで) • summary • 'crats rights)
• User: Leaderbot (talk • edits • logs • UserRights • activity • CentralAuth • email • verify 2FA )
• Discussion: wikisource:de:Wikisource:Skriptorium#meta:Global_reminder_bot

Leaderbot@beta.wikiversity

• Wiki: beta.wikiversity.org (list 'crats • (削除) no standard bot policy (削除ここまで) • summary • 'crats rights)
• User: Leaderbot (talk • edits • logs • UserRights • activity • CentralAuth • email • verify 2FA )
• Discussion: https://beta.wikiversity.org/wiki/Wikiversity:Candidates_for_Botship

Global bot status requests

Global bot status for Leaderbot

Global reminder bot. Some specific notes:

• The purpose of applying for this right is that it's a bot, so it requires bot approval on projects, but one that is likely to be uncontroversial and rarely run (if at all) in practice for the vast majority of wikis. With a global bot, I can bypass the approval process and automatically add new wikis, and that's about it, because I am not going to mark the edits as bot in any case. This is especially helpful since the bot will be most useful on small wikis, especially those with temporary admins. This does not mean that I'm going to ignore local policy, to be clear - if a wiki still requires approval, I'll clarify or file a local bot request appropriately.
• "The bot operator must demonstrate the bot task is welcomed on multiple Wikimedia projects" - the bot has been explicitly approved on 5+ projects (some without the bot flag), and in various stages of trial/approval on many other wikis (eg Turkish Wikipedia). It has been fully approved on the English Wikipedia. The exact list of wikis it's currently running on is available at Global reminder bot/global - this includes wikis that do not require approval and those that are on trial.
• The bot supports custom messages for a certain wiki in any language, and otherwise supports translation of the default message Global reminder bot/Messages/default). The bot also supports localised date translation (if desired) in any language, and user right names are also automatically translated (except for global rights). This customisation is optional, and indeed the majority of wiki have not chosen to customise the bot.
• "The operator should make sure to adhere to the wiki's preference as related to the use of the bot flag." - Users and wikis can easily opt-out from the bot (and a couple of wikis have confirmed that they do not want the bot on their wiki). Wikis can also selectively exclude certain user rights entirely.
• There have been no major bugs encountered on any wiki as of writing. There are a couple of minor issues (that do not affect bot operation) that I plan to fix soon.

Please let me know if there are any other questions you have. I've not messaged subscribers about this request, as I think it needs to be done by a steward.

Leaderboard (talk) 06:40, 12 September 2024 (UTC)

It seems to me that this bot needs to be set up for each wiki individually to accomodate their way of using temporary rights. So I do not see the need for a global bot flag. --MF-W 12:28, 12 September 2024 (UTC)

@MF-Warburg: This is actually not correct. Configuration is optional - if not configured, it will send a default message (Global reminder bot/global) instead and this is what I anticipate would be the case for most wikis. I only said that custom messages are provided as an option for those wikis that want to configure the bot (usually larger ones). Leaderboard (talk) 12:46, 12 September 2024 (UTC)

The question is which wikis actually use temporary rights actively. Those that do surely want to have their own say about this, as already happened e.g. on Incubator, where this bot was rejected, or on enwiki, where I see people commented that some usergroups do not need to be notified etc. MF-W 13:16, 12 September 2024 (UTC)

@MF-Warburg See my answer to Krd's question before. I do not believe that the average wiki would reasonably object to this bot, and those that do can easily put their wiki in the bot's opt-out set (or would already be in the global bots opt-out set, so global bots do not operate on that wiki anyway) or customise as necessary on their own (which is a reason its configuration files are on Meta). The most common objection I've seen is "this wiki does not use temporary rights", which I'd say should be OK because the bot will do nothing in a wiki does not assign temp rights. Leaderboard (talk) 13:34, 12 September 2024 (UTC)

Requests for dewiki and commons are still open, and one or another user (including me) pointed out that the service is perhaps not needed. Note that the bot account has flag at Commons for different tasks. Is this becomes a global bot, perhaps a separate account should be used for this task only. --Krd 05:54, 14 September 2024 (UTC)

@Krd The two are pretty large wikis, which are more likely to have their own preferences on using the bot. There was a reason I targeted many larger wikis first (and some smaller wikis), which is to get some feedback on possible (technical) issues before deploying it widely. I prefer sticking with one bot for organisational reasons unless absolutely necessary. Leaderboard (talk) 06:03, 14 September 2024 (UTC)

How many temp rights in total are currently active on global bot wikis, and how many global bot wikis currently use temp rights at all? --Krd 13:09, 12 September 2024 (UTC)

@Krd I haven't checked this explicitly, though I can try to give an exact number if you want. I would say that most small and many medium-sized wikis would make use of temporary rights (as they wouldn't qualify for permanent adminship under MVR), and many larger wikis use it for temporary rights (at least for IPBE/IP-block exempt), and in the case of wikis such as enwiki, for other temporary rights such as new page reviewer, rollback etc. As stated above, one primary use of this bot is in small wikis as admins there generally tend to have a temporary period (eg 3 months, 6 months etc, up to 2 years). P.S: as part of an RfC, new wikis are automatically global-bot enabled. Leaderboard (talk) 13:33, 12 September 2024 (UTC)

I think it could make sense to have this evaluation before the task is approved. I'm perhaps alone with the opinion that such notifications mostly support hat collectors (or hat keepers), but if it turns out that there is also no need because temp rights are used less that expected, I think this could be a real argument against. --Krd 05:54, 14 September 2024 (UTC)

@Krd: For all global bot wikis that are readable,

• Number of wikis using temp rights at least once right now = 170
• Number of total temp rights at the moment = 1541 (includes 603 from enwiki and 95 from hewiki, so 843 excluding them)

Note that a few wikis may technically allow global bots but have policies (i.e, in terms of what they can do) requiring local bot approval regardless, such as enwiki; a few users also have temp rights that are ignored by the bot, such as confirmed and bot flags. Leaderboard (talk) 07:46, 14 September 2024 (UTC)

This is more than I expected. Krd 03:58, 17 September 2024 (UTC)

hewiki sysops are fixed terms, they shouldn't need "reminding". Oftentimes IPBE users have expirations that are loosely associated with underlying block expirations - ideally the block expires, then IPBE expires -- meaning they shouldn't be encouraged to "renew". — xaosflux ^Talk 09:47, 15 October 2024 (UTC)

I don’t support bot rights for bots that notify people. Even with the bot flag explicitly disabled, certain notifications are hidden/disabled for members of the bot group (e.g. watchlist notification emails don’t go out). For this reason, I’d like this bot to not get the technical global bot right; but I’m not against it being considered a global bot by other means (e.g. not going through the local process on each wiki), should other commenters be supportive here. (My personal opinion is that if one forgets about their right expiring, they likely don’t need that right that much, so I can’t wholeheartedly support the bot; but I don’t want to block the operation of it either.) —Tacsipacsi (talk) 19:24, 22 September 2024 (UTC)

@Tacsipacsi At least when it comes to talk-page notifications, users won't be notified only if the bot posts with the minor edit tag. Isn't there a way to handle concerns such as "watchlist notification emails don’t go out" as well? Also: I should note that multiple wikis actually prefer (if not require) the bot flag to be set even if the bot does not do much on their wiki or explicitly sets the flag in its edits, as it aids them with filtering and abuse filters. Leaderboard (talk) 04:52, 23 September 2024 (UTC)

• There has not been much participation here nor any clear support/opposition, likely because no mass message was ever sent for this request. As such I'll send the mass message now and therefore also extend the request for another two weeks. EPIC (talk) 09:33, 15 October 2024 (UTC)

Is it necessary to have a global bot? It is not enough to user ping some meta page (a page with the purpose of notification) or send an email via API:Emailuser. --Dušan Kreheľ (talk) 10:12, 15 October 2024 (UTC)

You mean do this on Meta instead? Possible but I think that wouldn't be good as it would feel as if I am circumventing communities' preferences (plus most people would rather get notifications about their wiki on their talk page of that wiki). I have similar reservations with sending an email - for one, not everyone has an email set (or enabled) on their account. Leaderboard (talk) 10:27, 15 October 2024 (UTC)

As I have been mass-messaged about this request, let me formally express my Oppose opposition now. If a wiki wants this bot or a similar bot to run, they are free to get it set up. However, there is no basis for having this as a global bot, about which "the plan is to make this opt-out in due course" (Global reminder bot) - nobody's plan but the operator's, one should specify. Instead, in my opinion, it has been clearly shown this bot should not be forced upon every wiki. I think the idea for this bot came up because one person complained once about not being notified. As shown in the discussions above and also in other requests for this bot on this page, the demand for notifying users about expiring rights does not seem to be very high, and it would be overkill to set up this elaborate global scheme just because of that one complaint I mentioned. For example, Xaosflux gave arguments why hewiki admins and IPBE exemptions everywhere don't need to be notified. On Incubator, the bot was explicitly rejected because the lack of a renewal request from a user does also mean something. On dewiki and commonswiki, the requests are still open but participants are clear in their rejection. cswikibooks and dewikinews are ignoring the request, surely not out of enthusiasm for it. Meanwhile, Leaderboard is ignoring all arguments to claim "I do not believe the average wiki would reasonably object to this bot". They say they made requests on individual wikis to gather feedback, but if the feedback is of this quality, one should react to it by dropping the global bot idea. --MF-W 12:34, 15 October 2024 (UTC)

Your feedback is a little odd given this exact thing used to be done manually: [1] (though I do not know whether this was done in practice).

I need to address this claim of yours: "the feedback is of this quality". Did you see wikivoyage:Wikivoyage:Script_nominations#meta:Global_reminder_bot, wikipedia:bn:উইকিপিডিয়া:বট/অনুমোদনের_অনুরোধ/Leaderbot#আলোচনা_2 and wikipedia:sq:Wikipedia:Robotët/Kërkesë_për_miratim/Leaderbot and wikipedia:tr:Vikipedi:Botlar/Başvurular? Plus, even on Incubator, it was a case of one support and one oppose; far away from a case of "one should react to it by dropping the global bot idea". I understand you do not like this bot, but several users (even in the wikis that do not want it themselves) suggest that it can be useful for small wikis, which is what this bot was designed for.

Regarding Xaosflux's comments, that's why we have this discussion. It may well be that consensus is that IPBE should be excluded from the bot - this is easy to do. Leaderboard (talk) 13:01, 15 October 2024 (UTC)

I remember using them - in those bad old days when user groups couldn't be set with an expiry - on a case by case basis, for the local rights managed by stewards. Those and the successful requests are in line with my point: this should be set up per-wiki. -- MF-W 15:44, 15 October 2024 (UTC)

@MF-Warburg Just to clarify: are you proposing that it is better for me to request this right separately on all of the 800+ wikis that have allowed global bots (especially since the majority of wikis don't seem to mind it at the very least)? Or are you proposing some sort of middle ground (eg only on small wikis)? Leaderboard (talk) 15:57, 15 October 2024 (UTC)

I am not proposing anything, I think this bot is unnecessary. -- MF-W 16:06, 15 October 2024 (UTC)

Since the bot flag itself only is being discussed here, I would like to express my opposition to it, because a) such message is way so important and thus should not be "hidden" by bot flag, and b) since the traffic is nearby zero, there is no need for hiding such edits in fear of possible floodding of any page.
Side note: And I think the bot purpose deserves global discussion as well, but it's question for RFC or any such instrument.
— Danny B. 19:07, 15 October 2024 (UTC)

@Danny B. Regarding your second point, phab:T153817 may be useful in a general sense. Also just to reiterate: the request for the bot flag is purely technical; the bot will not use the flag in its edits and I don't mind if I don't get the flag as such but authorisation to run the bot. Leaderboard (talk) 19:32, 15 October 2024 (UTC)