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Requests for comment/Slowking4

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This is an archived version of this page, as edited by JzG (talk | contribs) at 11:36, 30 September 2020 (→Discussion: r). It may differ significantly from the current version .

This is a subpage; for more information, see the Requests for comments page.

Okay, so I'm not really sure if I am doing this RfC right-- it is indeed the first RfC that I have created. Please bear with me if I have formatted something wrong.

This global ban proposal concerns the following user: Slowking4 (talk · contribs · CA)

I propose a global ban due to the ongoing abuse of many Wikimedia projects spanning across decades.

Slowking4 has blocked indefinitely on four Wikimedia projects, including English Wikipedia, Commons, Wikidata, and Simple English Wikipedia, the most recent of which was recently and the cause for this global ban after months of abuse.

Slowking4 has his own LTA page on English Wikipedia, visible at en:Project:Long-term_abuse/Slowking4. He has been creating articles about non-notable subjects (then ignoring GNG and using his own ideasimple:Special:Diff/7093469) uploading non-free images to commons and abusing the system. He blatantly refused to cooperate with other editors simple:Special:Diff/7051744.

This alone would not be enough for a global ban, but only the tip of the iceberg. Slowking4 has repeatedly made personal attacks; sockpuppetry (he has made over 127 sockpuppets on English Wikipedia alone); and most recently a legal threat.

I have confirmed that Slowking4 meets our global ban criteria:

  • The user demonstrates an ongoing pattern of cross-wiki abuse that is not merely vandalism or spam. This is indeed the truth, the issues here are not blatant/vandalism spam but strong abuse across many wikis
  • The user has been carefully informed about appropriate participation in the projects and has had fair opportunity to rectify any problems. Yes, there are loads of talk page messages offering helpful friendly advice and frankly more chances than deserved, but he has not cooperated at all.
  • The user is indefinitely blocked or banned on two or more projects. Doubling this amount at four.

This global ban has been a long time coming due to multiple abuses across many wikis. Every time he is indeffed on one wiki, he starts causing problems on two more. I propose a global ban in keeping with our global ban criteria due to the issues above that many have voiced about.

Thank you for your time. Naleksuh (talk) 01:46, 30 September 2020 (UTC) [reply ]

Statement by Slowking4

Support

Oppose

@Billinghurst: So you suggest we allow him to continue abusing project after project ignoring local policies and abusing editors (which is the trend thus far), all while threatening to go to the press, purely because he is a good editor on one project? I'm sorry but being good on one project does not give someone free rein to abuse others without consequence. --IWI (talk) 04:26, 30 September 2020 (UTC) [reply ]
Yeah, if I were the closing steward I would discount this entirely -- it doesn't even attempt to address the concerns in the nom statement, much less that edits on Wikisource are not enough to ignore legal threats, personal attacks, and over 100 sockpuppets. Naleksuh (talk) 04:28, 30 September 2020 (UTC) [reply ]
Strongly disagree with the idea of discounting this. The position is a perfectly valid reason for opposing. --Yair rand (talk) 05:59, 30 September 2020 (UTC) [reply ]
@ImprovedWikiImprovment and Naleksuh: I beg your pardon, as a member of this community I am allowed to express my opinion-based on my experience and the value that the editor brings to a community. Just because it is in opposition to your opinion does not make it wrong. Naleksuh: you are only recently to the communities, you have had no experience in the broader world of administration and advanced rights, so making a comment like yours is at best just naive. A global ban does not stop any of what you express, and so far the community level bans have not done anything, so don't give my your impotent pointlessness when you are actually quite ignorant about global bans, their management, and the provisions you think you can employ. I also have worked harder and given more to these communities to express a knowledgeable and experienced opinion than you have. ImprovedWikiImprovment: Where did I say or suggest any of that verbiage. I said that the communities could individually do what they needed to do to manage their issues. I shall not extend the issues of how and why your communities get themselves into bitter fights, yet other communities are able to edit in harmony. I don't think that the problem lies at the heart of our community. — billinghurst sDrewth 05:31, 30 September 2020 (UTC) [reply ]
@Billinghurst:Yes I think your vote should count like anyone else's. To respond: It was a question that I asked as I felt that's what could be inferred. Him not being banned will inevitably mean more WMF projects will be subjected to the abuse that Slowking4 has perpetrated for numerous years. He has shown zero signs of stopping and clearly understands what he is doing. The user has consistently sockpuppeted on numerous projects and has over 100 accounts that they could use at any time on any project. With a user below expressing concern that this has also extended to Wikisource as well, I find it difficult to trust the assessment of Slowking4 being "non-problematic" (although I cannot judge either way, having never edited there). Even if this is indeed the case, a global ban is designed to protect the overall community from further abuse. The user will simply move onto the next project until they are inevitably blocked there. Like I said, other projects should not have to put up with such abuse purely because the user is helpful on a single project. Kind regards, --IWI (talk) 05:58, 30 September 2020 (UTC) [reply ]
@ImprovedWikiImprovment: I can say that the primary account has never been blocked, in 170k+ edits at enWS. I can say I have no idea how many accounts SK4 has used at enWS it could be one, it could be many, not that we have not given them the reason to need to sock. Nor do I think that he has been close to being blocked.

I can say that I am an experienced administrator for multiple years, at multiple wikis, so my opinion must hold some value.

I have no issue with his accounts being blocked, and him being banned at other communities where there has been a process to do so.

I know exactly what is a global ban and its purpose, I am not new here and it is worthwhile doing a little research before you start teaching other people how to suck eggs. I don't think you actually know how a community ban works, and that having a global is going to alter the behaviour you are trying to stop. I would also note that the criteria for a global ban are deeper in what they are trying to prevent, not solely socking.

I would think that if the community has an issue that it should pursue a ban outside of the Wikisources, thinking that a person who has in the vicinity of 370k edits in about 10 years has committed themselves to much of what is done at the WMFs, and you are better to limit their editing to a channel, rather than think that you are just going to stop it. Understand human nature and human condition. Tell me how throwing the book has worked in this case and other cases. — billinghurst sDrewth 06:58, 30 September 2020 (UTC) [reply ]

​Yeah, I do somewhat regret how I phrased this, with the comment about discounting. The point here was basically that very serious issues were raised in the nom and this oppose did not bother to address them at all (as if he didn't even read it, just saw the name of a guy he liked and opposed). While I do think that his work on Wikisource is both 1) frequently overused (and even mentioned in his EN lta page) 2) not "non-problematic" (as several users have observed, there are still problems on wikisource including confirmed sockpuppetry as you said) 3) certainly not enough to justify ignoring the issues in the nom alone. However, as it since been expanded, and I have somewhat rephrased my thought, I do think it would be acceptable to count this !vote (although the consensus seems to be to ban even with or without). Naleksuh (talk) 06:40, 30 September 2020 (UTC) [reply ]
@Naleksuh: Please don't misquote what you don't understand or what you don't know. Others will express their opinions, they don't need for you to double-guess or reinterpret them. You stick to citing your opinion on what you know, not prosecuting a case. You make allegations of how I responded which are completely baseless, and without knowledge. You must stop doing that. Your interpretations are simply wrong, and you may ask questions but the rest of your approach is just untenable. — billinghurst sDrewth 07:36, 30 September 2020 (UTC) [reply ]
  • Oppose Oppose Slowking4 is a great and valued contributor on English Wikisource. I can't speak towards the Commons/Simple English Wikipedia/Wikidata issues, but I know the work of the English Wikipedia Long Term abuse page can be pretty much credited to a single admin. It has never had widespread discussion concerning its merits as an LTA case page as I do suspect there would be some amount of dissent for it (though admittedly a minority in all likelihood).
    As for this diff, I am seriously strained to find a legal threat anywhere in there. Slowking is warning an editor that there are bad press optics involved with whatever they were supporting, and that it might cause some amount of bad publicity for the user and the project. As someone who was in the media themself recently over a Wikipedia controversy, this is something more editors should be prepared for in general. It's ridiculous to keep pretending the work we do exists in a vacuum because it can have real world consequences. However, if contributors here are right and that was some sort of threat by Slowking to instigate a controversy themself, then I would regrettably have to change my position in this discussion. –MJL ‐Talk‐ ☖ 07:07, 30 September 2020 (UTC) [reply ]
  • Oppose Oppose - per billinghurst --WikiBayer 👤💬 07:10, 30 September 2020 (UTC) [reply ]
  • Oppose Oppose Sorry I do not speak English. This is a google translation. Let communities deal with their own vandalism. He participates in the French-speaking wikisource and no vandalism has been carried out by this user. There is not only Wikipedia in life. There are also brother projects. --Le ciel est par dessus le toit (talk) 07:23, 30 September 2020 (UTC) [reply ]
    @Le ciel est par dessus le toit: Le français est acceptable. –MJL ‐Talk‐ ☖ 07:39, 30 September 2020 (UTC) [reply ]
    @MJL: Merci pour l'info, mais la traduction google est-elle claire ou faut-il que je remette mon message en français ? --Le ciel est par dessus le toit (talk) 07:43, 30 September 2020 (UTC) [reply ]
    @Le ciel est par dessus le toit: It is clear! I just wanted to make sure you were comfortable expressing yourself. –MJL ‐Talk‐ ☖ 07:48, 30 September 2020 (UTC) [reply ]
    @MJL: Merci --Le ciel est par dessus le toit (talk) 07:55, 30 September 2020 (UTC) [reply ]
  • Inclining to Oppose Oppose. If the behaviour in en.wikipedia and other project is so bad as people have described above, then I absolutely understand the reasons leading to this proposals. However, I know Slowking from en.wikisource where I have never seen him to behave in that way. He is considered to be a prolific and valued contributor there and his block would be a big loss for the project. So, if it were possible, I would prefer his blocking only in those projects where he makes problems. --Jan Kameníček (talk) 07:58, 30 September 2020 (UTC) [reply ]
  • Oppose Oppose. I am for one not impressed for Slowking behaviour, his subpages here on meta etc, however, this fails the global ban criterion as he is sort of valued in one wiki (per billinghurst) which we typically allow them to still contribute and not global ban. Local communities management seems the only way in this case, regretfully. Camouflaged Mirage (talk) 08:14, 30 September 2020 (UTC) [reply ]
  • English: Between Oppose Oppose to Strong oppose Reasoning same per Medelam. His #wpwp contributions in WBI (Indonesian wikipedia, the cool abbreviation) is very valuable, especilally with the fact that WBI is holding a program for newbies in WBI to learn about editing and stuff. Adding images could also encourage these newbies to learn more. Several thousand of these contributions. Jeromi Mikhael (talk) 08:21, 30 September 2020 (UTC) [reply ]
Bahasa Indonesia: Antara tidak setuju dan sangat tidak setuju. Alasan sama dengan pengguna Medelam. Penambahan-penambahan gambar Slowking4 di WBI sangat bermanfaat bagi komunitas. Terutama ketika kita melihat bahwa sedang diadakan program WikiLatih, maka penambahan-penambahan gambar Slowking 4 sangat bermanfaat. Jeromi Mikhael (talk) 08:27, 30 September 2020 (UTC) [reply ]
  • Oppose Oppose The request does not demonstrate the need for a global ban since it only mentions 4 projects out of dozens (hundreds?) of Wikimedia projects. And I confirm what Le ciel est par dessus le toit says: from what I saw, this user apparently does a good job on the French Wikisource. Seudo (talk) 08:35, 30 September 2020 (UTC) [reply ]
  • Oppose Oppose As an administrator on enWS, I would say that Slowking4 certainly should not be banned from enWS at least, since they have a long record of valuable contribution there, a small handful of curt comments about some local policy are about the limit of "misbehaviour" that I could name, and that does not even reach a standard for concern, let alone a ban. The vast vast majority of edits are content edits and not discussion-space edits: it's my impression that they are a heads-down get-things-done editor at enWS and uninterested in drama there. Inductiveload (talk) 09:15, 30 September 2020 (UTC) [reply ]

Neutral

Comments/Questions

Please let me know if I missed any and I will notify right away Naleksuh (talk) 01:54, 30 September 2020 (UTC) [reply ]

Update: I was told over IRC that I should post this on English Wikisource as well. Done for talk and comm. Naleksuh (talk) 01:58, 30 September 2020 (UTC) [reply ]
  • I myself had intended to start an RFC for a global ban of Slowking4 a while ago. Posting the draft I had written up before:
    Slowking4 is a contributor with an extensive history of cross-wiki abuse, whose violations include behavioural issues, civility issues, copyright policy violations, and extensive sockpuppeting. Brief history:
    • After two blocks on the English Wikipedia, for "edit warring" and "systematic abuse of non-free content policy", the user was blocked indefinitely for "Continued systematic abuse of non-free content policy, plus repeated personal attacks". More details here. The user created over 100 confirmed sockpuppets. (See w:Category:Wikipedia_sockpuppets_of_Slowking4.)
    • On Wikimedia Commons, the user was blocked for "Long-term pattern of personal insults, disrespect for the community, sockpuppetry, etc." (Summary of early issues here.) This was followed by block evasion by means of sockpuppets. The user refuses to accept the copyright policy, and used Commons to continue disputes from enwiki after being blocked there.
    • On Wikidata, the user was blocked for sockpuppeting. (See d:Topic:V73q4742vi3wb49x.)
    After each of these three blocks, the user evaded the blocks with more sockpuppets.
    General: According to the user, they regularly attend in-person events, and are affiliated with Wikimedia DC. The user continues to edit on Meta, where they have edited using at least 8 socks, and where their editing has been characterized as "facilitat[ing] their socking on another project where they are community banned", "Most of the user's activity here is maintaining lists of "cancer" on other wiki-projects.", "A fair bit of his Meta contributions are aimed at trash-talking users/situations on other wikis." The user has used Meta to try to facilitate proxy contributions on Commons. The user is also active on the English Wikisource, where they have used at least two socks (User:Grantant, User:Duckduckstop).
    A note: I have personally been in disputes with this editor, so my statement should not be taken as a neutral statement by an uninvolved party.
  • (I wrote this in mid-June, so it doesn't include anything more recent than that.) --Yair rand (talk) 05:14, 30 September 2020 (UTC) [reply ]
  • Question. @Operator873 and Vermont: Why was Slowking4 even blocked on Simple English Wikipedia? I'm not seeing a discussion about it anywhere on wiki. –MJL ‐Talk‐ ☖ 07:18, 30 September 2020 (UTC) [reply ]
    @MJL: They are blocked per simple:WP:ONESTRIKE policy where they are blocked in enwp for having created pages with notablity issues, then they continued this behaviour in simple wikipedia. Since there are editors warning him, and that didn't work, the policy state that such users can be blocked without further warnings or discussions. It is a valid block and can be given by any admin. Camouflaged Mirage (talk) 08:16, 30 September 2020 (UTC) [reply ]

Cross-project users with 1 viable project

Lots of people are basing their participation around this central theme, and we've already escalated to major unhappiness, so let's discuss it.

What should be our position where a user is problematic on multiple (indeeed, 4) projects, but has a project where they are viewed as a significant positive? Should that project be obliged to lose the editor as part of "the greater good"? Or does that same reasoning apply that other projects should instead, rather inefficiently, use local blocks, so as not to lose their benefit?

Is there a way to allow a single exception to a global ban?

Discussion

  • I'm not yet sure of my ultimate viewpoint on the ones above, but I do feel that opposes on these grounds are by no means baseless and warrant disregarding, but that their weight and reasoning could well be disputed. Nosebagbear (talk) 11:07, 30 September 2020 (UTC) [reply ]
  • My view should be that they should receive a warning at theior one "good" project that if they want to continue contributing to WMF projects, they must restrict themselves to projects from which they are not blocked or banned, and must refrain from unconstructive behaviour of the type that led to any blocks or bans, and then if there is no recurrence after 6 months we move on, but if there is, we show them the door. JzG (talk) 11:36, 30 September 2020 (UTC) [reply ]

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