Timestamps are in UTC.
amanuel_ is running The Intentional Web Initiative http://intentionalweb.org
hey
who was talking about lazyweb?
[[media-info-brainstorming]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=media-info-brainstorming&diff=0&oldid=4279 * Mary Hodder * (+925)
http://www.43things.com/ is a remakably similar idea
[[media-info-brainstorming]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=media-info-brainstorming&diff=0&oldid=4280 * Mary Hodder * (+113)
oh I saw someone mistakenly posted it already
bkdelong is B.K. DeLong, Head Research Analyst for HALO Worldwide - http://www.haloworldwide.com. Web: http://www.brain-stream.com. Email: bkdelong@pobox.com
I miss anything exciting today?
yeah, tantek and factoryjoe were talkign about a lazyweb
and then I stumbled upon http://www.43things.com/ which I thought was remarkably similar
A bit different....43things is more general brainstorming, thoughts and ideas and lazyweb.org is specifically for "laziness-induced ideas"
lazyweb is also, "this should be done, but not by me"
43things is "I want to do these things, just not today"
right
I am KING of LazyWeb....or at least it's Robbie Rotten. ;)
kingryan: I see little difference in practical day to day life
both desires would be satisfied by someone else doing it sooner than you in most instances
semantics is everything
with the obvious exception of things you wish to experience
mlinksva is Mike Linksvayer and from Creative Commons
[[hcalendar]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcalendar&diff=0&oldid=4281 * Yamahige * (+235) Conversion and consumption -
[[hcalendar]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcalendar&diff=0&oldid=4282 * Yamahige * (-1) Conversion and consumption -
[[Template:NewMarker]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=Template:NewMarker&diff=0&oldid=4283 * MarkRickerby * (-6) restyled to match colors from uf identity swatch
[[Main Page]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=Main_Page&diff=0&oldid=4284 * MarkRickerby * (-2) del ( braces ) from hatom link
[[rel-bookmark]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=rel-bookmark&diff=0&oldid=4285 * MarkRickerby * (-7) removed spam links, added redirect to rel-design-pattern
[[multilingual-brainstorming]] N http://microformats.org/wiki/multilingual-brainstorming * StephanieBooth * (+691)
[[multilingual-brainstorming]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=multilingual-brainstorming&diff=0&oldid=4286 * StephanieBooth * (+326)
[[multilingual-brainstorming]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=multilingual-brainstorming&diff=0&oldid=4287 * StephanieBooth * (+27)
[[multilingual-brainstorming]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=multilingual-brainstorming&diff=0&oldid=4288 * StephanieBooth * (+101)
[[multilingual-brainstorming]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=multilingual-brainstorming&diff=0&oldid=4289 * StephanieBooth * (+187)
[[multilingual-examples]] N http://microformats.org/wiki/multilingual-examples * StephanieBooth * (+341)
[[multilingual-examples]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=multilingual-examples&diff=0&oldid=4290 * StephanieBooth * (+29)
evening
[[multilingual-examples]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=multilingual-examples&diff=0&oldid=4291 * StephanieBooth * (+3)
just to note I'm encoraging some multilingual bloggers to walk through the mf process for specifying langauge
[[User:StephanieBooth]] N http://microformats.org/wiki/User:StephanieBooth * StephanieBooth * (+132)
[[User:StephanieBooth]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=User:StephanieBooth&diff=0&oldid=4292 * StephanieBooth * (+47)
[[multilingual-brainstorming]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=multilingual-brainstorming&diff=0&oldid=4293 * StephanieBooth * (+649)
[[multilingual-brainstorming]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=multilingual-brainstorming&diff=0&oldid=4294 * StephanieBooth * (+594)
*boing*
probably should be here, huh, KevinMarks and patfm ?
[[multilingual-brainstorming]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=multilingual-brainstorming&diff=0&oldid=4295 * Patfm * (+239) Research - added a few links
especially as the last 20 things in this channel have been your edits, bunny
in this channel?
oh heck
edits appear in here?
ew
had I known...
thanks patfm :-)
KevinMarks: I'm still not sure how relevant our whole thing is to "microformats"
in what way is the multilingual problem a microformat issue? (apart for the markup side of things, of course)
I think it is very much so
then maybe I don't get what a microformat is
getting the markup right is a good foundation
could you explain?
ok
i think it's related, but i see one potential problem:
the poitn fo microformats is to express meaning in HTML in a way that is both simple to author and parsable by machine
it's hard to think of a whole blog post as a microformat
KevinMarks: so should we create a multilingual-markup page?
no thats missing the point, pat
the markup that defiens the raltionships between posts can be a microformat
patfm: is the way I try to state the problem clear, or not?
KevinMarks: I agree
okay, it's just something i've thought about, because if you think about something like the vcard microformat or whatever, it seems like a self-contained entity
well, that is, but rel="tag" isn't
and in literal (markup) terms, thinking of ablog post led me to think hmm, this isn't going to end up as a big div is it, because people won't do it
[[multilingual-brainstorming]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=multilingual-brainstorming&diff=0&oldid=4296 * StephanieBooth * (+114) Trying to formulate the problem again -
the poitn is clarity of meaning
bunnywabbit_: for the language why don't you use xml:lang="xx" ?
Frederic: not as simple
because lang and hreflang are HTML
we want to define relationships too
xml:lang is a subset
and say A is an abstract in lang xx of B which is in lang yy
hmmmm
A and B can be at different URIs or at the same URI - then we're in a mess
or we need to id them
require differet URLs
fragment IDs are legit
KevinMarks: so how would you deal with my blog?
my other-language-abstracts are at the same URL
what does "fragment IDs are legit" mean?
well, give them a distinct anchor
ok
we are iterating on that issue in hAtom
excerpts vs abstracts
something like
post-slug-xx
xx being the language
and we could have
post-slug-xx-post
and post-slug-xx-post
and post-slug-xx-excerpt
how would you define excerpts vs. abstracts?
maybe it would be better to think in terms of actual tags than more content-oriented terms
because we have span and blockquote, for instance
that could be used to side step excerpts vs abstracts
class="abstract" lang="en"
blockquote is for quotations
I don't consider an abstract (in the sense I use it on my blog) like a quotation
there's also q, which no one seems to use
q is inline
wrote a post on q vs. cite at one point
blockquote has a cite attribute for referring to the source
KevinMarks: do you guys have stats on what tags people actually use?
hTML tags?
no, we mung the text out and index that
maybe a blockquote + cite + language attributes would be a good place to start
i see
s/attributes/attributes combination/
so having these conventional class names is part of microformats, right
http://climbtothestars.org/archives/2001/04/21/html-et-linguistique/
well a microformat principle is nto to invent stuff if HTML already has a way to say it
<div id="post-slug-fr-abstract" lang="fr" rel="??">This is my french abstract.</div>
you can't use rel on a div
you cna use class though
aha
true
and class is multivalued
so where can you use rel?
on a link
in a link
dam
n
is that all?
rel defines the relationship fo the destination to the source
bunnywabbit_: to define relationship you have to point on something, don't you?
you do
so maybe like, (blockquote (cite (a) ) )
bunnywabbit_: you also have ref
rev
for reverse relationship
rev
check Ryan's post about it on mf blog
so I could have <a href="#post-slug-fr-abstract" rel="abstract" hreflang="fr" title="Résumé en français.">Résumé français</a> at the end of my english post
but then
we wouldn't know what english content relates to that french abstract
see the problem?
http://microformats.org/wiki/rel-faq
patfm: I do't like the blockquote
what are we quoting?
quoting is "I'm reproducing here something that has been printed elsewhere"
quoting and translating is a bit tricky, yes
if I stick my english content in an id-ed div, then could I set a relationship between source and abstract saying
here is the source of the abstract I'm pointing to?
let me read the faq
yeah actually i don't really either... (blockquote|div|?? (cite (a hreflang=fr rel=abstract ) ) )
The rel values in HTML follow a consistent pattern which at a minimum *implies* a deliberate design. rel describes the relationship of a hyperlink in terms of what the destination (href) is, to the source, or from the source's perspective. <-- what is the source? the source PAGE? that's problematic on multi-post pages
i think you could think of it as a post, any reason why not?
ah!
Are "rel" attributes, and linktypes in general, just document to document?
ish
there is soem hadnwaving
about partial documenst that we use to support them in posts
"Thus linktypes in general may be either from a whole document or part of a document to a whole document or a part of a document."
and to be anal i could aska bout whether it counts for one part of a document to another part of the same document... but i won't. :)
so the point of a microformat here is to establish some conventional markup for indicating where to find translation, right
*a translation
or the other-language-version which is not necessarily a translation
remember our discussions some months back
right... in that conversatoin that kevin had with tim oren they even mentioned linking ot machine translation, for instance
it's often more practical to "say something again in another language" rather than really translate it
yeah
so machine translation is very different
machine translation concentrates on the surface of wordds
"saying again" concentrates on meaning and intention, sometimes very loosely
i guess i tend to think in terms of closer translation since that's what we're working on in our project but i think you're right that many people translate loosely
alternate is vague enough
how would you define the relationship between my post and the "other language excerpt" here http://climbtothestars.org/archives/2006/01/22/requirements-for-a-multilingual-wordpress-plugin/ ?
we could add nuance by having more rels later
or here? http://climbtothestars.org/archives/2006/01/16/etre-madame-blogs/
ok
so rel="alternate"
but the thing is
I don't link to my abstracts
rel="abstract" hreflang="fr" ?
or from my abstracts
or
the link only makes sense if they're on a different page, right?
the html spec seems to say it should be rel=alternate lang="fr" but hreflang would make more sense
oh.... we can invent new rel terms, right?
<div lang="fr" class="abstract">Quelques r�flexions concernant un plugin multilingue pour WordPress.</div><div lang="en" class="entry">My blog has been bilingual for a long time now. [...]
maybe
we can to some extent; it requires a bit mroe justification than inventing classes
that means you impose class names?
I have invented some rel values
how about people who like writing their class names in their mother tongue? :-)
or: : <div lang="fr" class="abstract">Quelques r?flexions concernant un plugin multilingue pour WordPress.</div><cite lang="en" class="entry">My blog has been bilingual for a long time now.</cite></div>
ok
euh
cite?!
better not to, but you cna have multiple class names
why on earth cite?
heh, is cite evil?
but the point is to converge
actually, those class names would be fine to impose in a blogging plugin, i think. they might well interface with the develompent of multilingual-ready themes
but what good does the class name do?
patfm: not evil, but it seems out of context here
well there has to be a link in there somewhere doesn't there?
I mean... I wouldn't use cite here
yeah but
cite
patfm, hum, i don't think cite is appropriate here
is for journal names, etc
people names
cite is wrong
i'm just trying to think of a place to hang the lang tags
not for original text
ok
well you can hang the lang tags anywehre
heh
but I agree with patfm we need to stick a url somewhere
couldn't the url go in the rel ?
ah no... rel can't go anywhere, just on links
how about a cite attribute?
can that only go on blockquote and q tags?
i'm not hung up on cite, it just seems to me that cite is supposed to indicate an author
is there a cite attribute?
http://microformats.org/wiki/hatom-issues#Entry_Summary_.28atom:summary.29
there is a cite attribute on blockquote which is a url iirc
yes
we'd need something like that
only not on blockquote
because we're not citing anything
ideally
i confess that i find hAtom confusing
<div class="abstract" cite="http://mybloguri.com/#my-post">abstract</div> (not good, but this kind of idea)
biab
what about the minimalist tack: the microformat "is" the way that you link to translated stuff, not necessarily how you mark up your actually translated content
bunnywabbit_: shall we go back to finding a bunch of examples?
we could start a delicious tag and then i couuld convert them to the wiki markup en masse
gosh, cute kittens: http://photos1.blogger.com/blogger/2648/379/1600/stinking%20kittens.0.jpg
ok
"polyblog", maybe? heh, wait. that has... overtones. heh.
good
polyblog is nice
freaky eyes :)
they have nice markup (the kittens)
er
markings ;-)
haha
tmblian slip ;)
*timblian. o whatever heh
I wonder how reliable techcrunch news are
omg, kittens
I have a post saying that Amazon is topping the tag experience but it only appears in bloglines and shows me a 404 on the site
Frederic, techcrunch? why do you say that?
Hi kingryan|out
hi Frederic
Amazon Tags, which were announced on November 11, 2005, have been quietly removed from the site.
The example I used in my previous post clearly shows a tagging area at the bottom of the item description. A look at the same item on Amazon now shows that the feature has been removed. A new comment to that post alerted me to the change.
No word from Amazon on the reason for the removal.
That's what I read in bloglines
http://www.techcrunch.com/2006/01/21/amazon-ends-tags-experiment/
that url is a 404 for me
bergie is lives in Finland and blogs at http://bergie.iki.fi/blog/ and Midgard CMS developer
amazon pages have become bewildering
yes, patfm
kingryan: that page is 404 for me too, but I have it in bloglines anyway
I only pay attention to 2 things on the whole page
The price?
i imagine it would take 5 or 6 decimal places to specify the percentage of users who noticed the tag stuff :)
and "add to wishlist"
:D
yeah too
Been a long time since no one offered me something. They use my paypal link now. I think it's because my wishlist is in french
Fredric, I'll have to bug michael about the techcrunch ting
thing*
he's not online now, though
otherwise, I'd pester him now
OK
I don't know him, otherwise I would have done it myself
I wanted to relay the info in French, but I'll have to way I guess
Frederic: well at least they do give you something
only person who got me something is KevinMarks ;-)
Frederic: you've separated your two language blogs now, right?
bunnywabbit_: actually I don't have the time and the motivation to translate my posts
But I need to restart
you could have mechanical turk to it
I don't even have a class to display English posts
Frederic: which is why i don't translate mine
but you know that already ;-)
I just do excerpts
kingryan: I was more thinking about underpaid chinese guys living in my basement and coding stuffs for pizza
Frederic, I'm not sure that scales well
I wonder why my bloglines is one day in Japanese and the other day in Spanish while my settings say it must be in English
haha
bunnywabbit_: people give me cash for the themes
back
which helps me to pay the server
we coudl do with some underpaid chines guys to explain what all those chiense blogs in the top 100 are about
the ten commandments of bilingual blogging don't sound very nice to me
they start really badly
"Language change. There should be a button, link, or pulldown menu to click or select, present in every page. That's the way to turn from reading content in one language to the other in a bilingual blog. Mixtures of languages in individual pages, no, that's not OK. Langauge change behaviour could vary: the distinction between symmetrical and asymmetrical blogs that I describe here is a key issue."
Frederic: that's good
KevinMarks: what time is it?
this guy (the one who wrote the 10 commandments) thinks he has monolingual readers.
1.40am
bunnywabbit_: I was once thinking about using a javascript and some display none css to show / hide the English part
so, examples shoudl be extended to show what amrkup is currently used to indicate languages
Frederic: problem with that is search engines
and bandwidth can be an issue
how about ajaxifying it?
simpler than that
can't you do a css selector on lang ?
ahahifying
you can
I'm already doing it
daniel put the code for it on his blog (with js) in 2002
so you could show/hide the other lang
to show-hide
yep
good, precedents!
that's what Frederic is thinking about
so Frederic: you'll find the code on daniel glazman's blog
(if you need it)
so let me refactor this problem statement
I had it briefly on CTTS but gave up because of lack of browser support at the time
you can't select on language in IE
well, ffox is more present than it was 4 years ago
1) indicating language of sub-sections (use lang="xx") - enables CSS-fu and parsing
yes
*ouch* :-(
2) indicating alternative versions in other languages (use rel="alternate" hreflang="xx")
yes
KevinMarks, ok, i'll set a precedent ... but not sure if i finish my redesign today
I updated my blog post: http://climbtothestars.org/archives/2006/01/22/requirements-for-a-multilingual-wordpress-plugin/
3) indicating the various kinds of alternatives - translation, abstract, original
or... reformulation ?
how do you say that in english?
KevinMarks, what's "translation"? "translator"?
3 is the one where we need to work out the significance
and all these optional...
translation, abstract, original and reformulation seems to cover it
if reformulation is english
"reformulations"... don't like it
I'm thinking rel="alternate original" lang="fr" for my link to a post of yours I translated
paraphrase?
yes, but bear in mind that in many cases there won't be an "original" and a "translated version"
well, in that case alternate alone is OK
otoh, that case is important, too.
my "that case" is your case
:)
not mine
the case that patfm and Tim Oren were interested in was an attempted faithful translation of another post (whetehr by the same author or not)
chryss, if you write 2 versions yourself on the same topic in different languages, is 'alternate' OK or not?
yes, ... what i said meant to convey that this _is_ a very important case
yes
I agree
it's what i use, and it think it's fine to keep it so loose
I think "alternate" is the broad case; the question is if we can add useful meaning by coming up wiht some more specific ones where they apply
ACTION is currently listening to
hm
which does mean looking for examples
look at the current state of my markup http://serendipity.lascribe.net/
a better version is being worked on
what does wikipedia do?
eg all formal EU documents are supposed to be equivalently translated in many languages
wikipedia forks
ah, you mean that
compare the English and French articles on Napoleon
canada
yes, but wrt markup i mean
but that _is_ a relevant example: there are cases of faithful translations, and other with big multilingual reference sites
right
paraphrase is good
your use of lang looks good
paraphrase is pretty restrictive, though
<li class="interwiki-ar"><a href="http://ar.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D8%A3%D9%88%D9%84%D9%88%D9%85%D9%88%D8%AA%D8%B3">العربية</a></li>
<li class="interwiki-bg"><a href="http://bg.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%9E%D0%BB%D0%BE%D0%BC%D0%BE%D1%83%D1%86">Български</a></li>
<li class="interwiki-cs"><a href="http://cs.wikipedia.org/wiki/Olomouc">Česky</a></li>
<li class="interwiki-en"><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Olomouc">English</a></li>
wikipedia does... nothing
except the classes
rel="alternate original" rev="paraphrase" hreflang="fr" for me saying in other words in english what was said elsewhere in french
so, room for improvement there
yes
we shoudl drag _sj_ into this, he's the wikipedia polyglot guru
oh right
where is he?
is he up?
I think he's east coast US so likely asleep
damn.
ok, the canadian covernment uses "lang" but no "alternate... attention, slight flood
<td valign="bottom" width="150"><table width="150" summary="Our tables are used for the page layout. Nos tables sont utilisées pour la mise en page." border="0" cellpadding="1" cellspacing="0">
<tr>
<td width="75" align="center"><a title="English" href="/main_e.html"><img src="/images/englishbt.gif" alt="English" height="27" border="0" width="91"></a></td>
<td></td>
<td width="75" align="center"><a title="Français" href="/main_f.html" lang="fr"><img src="/images/francaisbt.gif" alt="Français" height="27" border="0" width="91"></a></td>
</tr>
i left the first bit in for your amusement
there's a "lang=en" at the top of the page, so only "lang=fr" is indicated. "hreflang" would be a good idea, too....
ew
haha
chryss, can you put these markup fragments in http://microformats.org/wiki/multilingual-examples
ok KevinMarks
uh, do you mind if i add my "better" multilingual blog? dangereusetrilingue is a hack job, no attributes or hardly
this kind fo thing is really helpful in convincing people that it is worthwhile
of course - best practices are encouraged
the closest I get to multilingual blogging is http://epeus.blogspot.com/2003_04_01_epeus_archive.html#200186448
uh, what kind of "valid username" does microformats.org want?
WikiFriendly
[[multilingual-examples]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=multilingual-examples&diff=0&oldid=4297 * StephanieBooth * (+677)
just added a sample from my site
You have not specified a valid user name.
ouch
how do I insert code, KevinMarks ?
er, let me check
maybe i need someone to sign me up? or should i do it anonymously?
they say start with a space
chryss: no no you can sign up yourself
with a _space_?
ah, ok, it's fine with ChrisFW
put <pre><nowiki> </nowiki></pre>
around it bunny
there are otehr ways but that is simplest
[[multilingual-examples]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=multilingual-examples&diff=0&oldid=4298 * StephanieBooth * (+11) Code Samples -
ah
got it
KevinMarks: still refactoring the problem statement?
if you use <pre> adding extra newlines is good
let me remap what I said here into the wiki
[[multilingual-examples]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=multilingual-examples&diff=0&oldid=4299 * StephanieBooth * (+33) Code Samples -
[[multilingual-brainstorming]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=multilingual-brainstorming&diff=0&oldid=4300 * Kevin Marks * (+134) Managing multilingual blogs and sites -
[[multilingual-examples]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=multilingual-examples&diff=0&oldid=4301 * ChrisFW * (+585)
Enric is a media Software Developer and Videoblogger located at http://www.cirne.com
[[multilingual-examples]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=multilingual-examples&diff=0&oldid=4302 * ChrisFW * (+10) From http://serendipity.lascribe.net/ -
[[multilingual-brainstorming]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=multilingual-brainstorming&diff=0&oldid=4303 * Kevin Marks * (+916) refactor order; add summary of approaches
how's that bunny?
[[multilingual-examples]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=multilingual-examples&diff=0&oldid=4304 * ChrisFW * (+684)
[[multilingual-examples]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=multilingual-examples&diff=0&oldid=4305 * ChrisFW * (+1522)
hi
I'm in the newspapeer again
just learnt it from somebody else
http://www.lematin.ch/nwmatinhome/nwmatinheadactu/actu_suisse/les_romands_s_y_mettent.html
they slipped up with that photo instead of using your ones
which ones?
it's one of the flickr ones
but they obviously needed one that looked wintery
oh wait
you can't see the photo online
I see a bloke
yeah, that's Laurent
laurent Haug
(Haug, not Brunetti)
friend of mine
and organiser of lift06.org
it's a one-page article
with the blogs down the right and left
and a phtoo for each blog
aha
so in the real paper peopel will look at you first
oh weird
it's not on flickr
no, he's 3 times as big as me
i found a couple more formats to think about:
http://web.archive.org/web/20050206173408/http://jej.notatnik.net/
(formats in a loose sense)
http://merdeinfrance.blogspot.com/ (rather unpleasant tone, this one)
it is
yucky site
patfm: I thought you werew sleeping
anyway, they're interesting examples -- the first one is essentially two unrelated blogs on a single page, the second is actually one-to-one
made coffee O.o
emmanuelle.net
paragraph by paragraph translation
should take that as a sign :) ... rooi bush tea for me
hmm interesting
add them in to http://microformats.org/wiki/multilingual-examples
wow, even within a single post
painful to read
for bilingual people
because I tend to read both languages at a time
yep, i'm making a list
and get everything twice
annoying
tyhat format is kind of illogical imho
well, thats where a lang="xx" on the blocks and a js/CSS show/hide would work well
[[multilingual-examples]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=multilingual-examples&diff=0&oldid=4306 * ChrisFW * (+181) Examples of multilingual blogs -
added http://www.nakedtranslations.com/
i think these are two separate MT blogs
http://www.margaret-marks.com/Transblawg/ multilingual, but not translation (despite the fact that it's by a translator!) (good blog, too)
yes, i thought of adding margaret...
but she rarely does text in german
interesting how she does the titles-- "Interpreting error / Fehler beim Dolmetschen"
same tag.
er, element.
er, .... you know what i mean.
she just freely mixes, no markup distinction at all
same at céline's blog (naked translations)
no attributes whatsoever that encode language metadata
right, and they're pretty tech-savvy
well, i haven't read céline's blog but margaret marks talks about xml on occasion, etc
91-year-old blogger: http://serendip.epfl.ch/Chevilly1/
bunnym that paper has 5 blokes and you
I'm betting on your picture
7 blokes and me
wow, and an impressive list of categories for a 91-year-old
and I'm titled "the woman"
they needed one
phd in arts
wow, when you start digging into the options for multilingual blogging, there are tons
here's one i'll add http://www.metameat.net/kafka/index.php kafka's diaries
oh, yes... i'm mainly filing through my own brain for memories of interesting sites
excellent - this is just what we need - mroe exampels of approaches
"the woman" is ratehr unsubtle
i'm unsubtle?
[[multilingual-examples]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=multilingual-examples&diff=0&oldid=4307 * ChrisFW * (+72) Examples of multilingual blogs -
no, the subeditor at the swiss newspaper is
oh
heh, one guy labels his english/french blog "Lang(u)age"
la femme token
try marking up that word heh
whats the iso code for franglais?
fr_GB
oh, and technologies du langage of course
http://frenchfragfactory.net/ozh/index.php is interesting, it has js to toggle en/fr, but only if there is a post in that language, so if you're set to en you might see en(fr), en, fr, en(fr)
[[multilingual-examples]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=multilingual-examples&diff=0&oldid=4308 * ChrisFW * (+129) Examples of multilingual blogs -
I should write up the chat I had with wk and om at lunch marked up with lang="en-uk" and "en-za" and "en-us"
chryss: you mean fr_US :)
demends
er
pends
franglais is a UK think mostly
we should add a 'for goodness sake don't use flags' clause somewhere
http://www.fva.org/vnflag/vc-flag.htm
patfm has a good post on that
argh site's down again
i cry
patfm, i can access it
yes, KevinMarks
very true
o.. hmm
[[multilingual-examples]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=multilingual-examples&diff=0&oldid=4309 * Patfm * (+1078) first stab at some labels (hello irc channel.)
so if someone asks "what's the benefit of making the effort to add markup to my translated content?", what's the reply
[[multilingual-examples]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=multilingual-examples&diff=0&oldid=4310 * ChrisFW * (+63) markup cleanup ... hi pat
heh, thanks chryss
uh, patfm that's still a bit unfinished there...
i left it a bit of a disaster didn't i
and put in link text. i just did that for mine
but my clever disaster resulted in you fixing my crummy markup. hehe
sorry, your categorisation is more like tags
no, i didn't fix all of it yet
i don't understand your titles
i'm just trying to describe the layout
look those blogs are sometimes in several categories...
maybe we shouuldh ave short text descriptions for different styles
like "language choice passed through urls" ... that's the case of mine, but also naked translations, where it's two separate blogs
yeah
i'll give it a onceover
[[multilingual-examples]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=multilingual-examples&diff=0&oldid=4311 * Patfm * (+77) Side-by-side (not translated) -
argh, i didn't mean to save that. jeeze, this bot makes me self conscious
[[multilingual-examples]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=multilingual-examples&diff=0&oldid=4312 * Patfm * (-610) One language per post - move this bit.
patfm, i'm refactoring this totally
patfm, i don't understand jej ... is this a polish blog with an english sidebar?
[[multilingual-examples]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=multilingual-examples&diff=0&oldid=4313 * Patfm * (+618) Completely separate blogs -
chryss: yeah, that's a good way to describe it
i was just trying to point out that the posts have no relation to each other
well, that's true for loads of other blogs we've listed in other categories
"separate blogs" means, for us, "separate installs of blogging tools"
in a single view?
i guess we're parsing them in different ways
you're coming from the user experience, mostly, but we had been looking at how it was achieved tool wise
maybe it wasn't worth my adding the categories
yeah
give me 10 min
right
perhaps we should have separate pages
ah ok
what if you don't know which blogging tools were used?
interesting that there are no hreflang attributes on the wikipedia interwiki links
most of the time you can tell from the source code. others are handcrafted
brb, gotta reboot my modem
[[multilingual-examples]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=multilingual-examples&diff=0&oldid=4314 * ChrisFW * (-442) reorganized listing
patfm is a ?forgetme fiend and http://blogamundo.net/dev and will eventually be destroyed by character encodings and oftentimes clueless
oh, much better
wb patfm
has KevinMarks gone to bed?
patfm, have a look
bunny_wants_CSS, i imagine
he's probably killed over and died
keeled over
eggcorn?
yess
hm, the author of the polyglot plugin has a trilingual blog, but i can't see them using it :)
heh
where is it?
[[multilingual-examples]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=multilingual-examples&diff=0&oldid=4315 * ChrisFW * (+109) One language per post, language varies -
just added it http://fredfred.net/skriker/
bergie is lives in Finland and blogs at http://bergie.iki.fi/blog/ and Midgard CMS developer
chryss: that's a bad sign... if a plugin developer doesn't use his plugin
[[multilingual-examples]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=multilingual-examples&diff=0&oldid=4316 * Patfm * (+113) One language per post, language varies - add Polinesia
[[multilingual-examples]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=multilingual-examples&diff=0&oldid=4317 * Patfm * (+11) One language per post, language varies - oops, it's trilingual
[[multilingual-brainstorming]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=multilingual-brainstorming&diff=0&oldid=4318 * Patfm * (+93) Previous discussions - another discussion in French
cgriego is Chris Griego (-06:00).
Enric is a media Software Developer and Videoblogger located at http://www.cirne.com
hi
mlinksva is Mike Linksvayer and from Creative Commons
factoryjoe is Chris Messina, works for Flock, Bar Camp & Rhyzomatic & is working towards open source world domination & factorycityblug (http://factoryjoe.com/blog/) & looks like http://www.flickr.com/photos/dotben/70970770/
[[s5-tools]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=s5-tools&diff=0&oldid=4319 * Downes * (+1170) Added list of S5 editors
[[s5-tools]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=s5-tools&diff=0&oldid=4320 * Downes * (-2)
Enric is a media Software Developer and Videoblogger located at http://www.cirne.com
[[s5-tools]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=s5-tools&diff=0&oldid=4321 * RyanKing * (+230) cleanup up formatting, adding some explanatory text
[[cite-brainstorming]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=cite-brainstorming&diff=0&oldid=4322 * Tim White * (-1525) Types and Roles -
[[cite-formats]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=cite-formats&diff=0&oldid=4323 * Tim White * (+1476)
[[cite-brainstorming]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=cite-brainstorming&diff=0&oldid=4324 * Tim White * (+12) Contributors -
[[cite-formats]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=cite-formats&diff=0&oldid=4325 * Tim White * (+25) Types and Roles -
[[cite-formats]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=cite-formats&diff=0&oldid=4326 * Brian * (-5) Comparison chart -
[[cite-formats]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=cite-formats&diff=0&oldid=4327 * Brian * (-15) Comparison chart -
[[citation-brainstorming]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=citation-brainstorming&diff=0&oldid=4328 * EranGloben * (+39)
[[distributed-conversation-examples]] N http://microformats.org/wiki/distributed-conversation-examples * EranGloben * (+1915) created basic page for distributed conversation examples.
[[distributed-conversation-examples]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=distributed-conversation-examples&diff=0&oldid=4329 * EranGloben * (-61)
[[distributed-conversation-examples]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=distributed-conversation-examples&diff=0&oldid=4330 * EranGloben * (+104)
http://www.flickr.com/photos/factoryjoe/89880590/
[[distributed-conversation-examples]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=distributed-conversation-examples&diff=0&oldid=4331 * EranGloben * (+1035) added details and discussion of TDL
[[distributed-conversation-examples]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=distributed-conversation-examples&diff=0&oldid=4332 * EranGloben * (+43) Examples -
[[distributed-conversation-examples]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=distributed-conversation-examples&diff=0&oldid=4333 * EranGloben * (+466) Examples of Use -
[[distributed-conversation-examples]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=distributed-conversation-examples&diff=0&oldid=4334 * EranGloben * (+2) Authors -
[[distributed-conversation-examples]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=distributed-conversation-examples&diff=0&oldid=4335 * EranGloben * (+1)
http://www.torresburriel.com/weblog/?p=859
?def Enric
Enric is a media Software Developer and Videoblogger located at http://www.cirne.com
[[citation-brainstorming]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=citation-brainstorming&diff=0&oldid=4336 * DannyAyers * (+316) ref to IBIS
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