Talk:Inclusive language
Add topicI'm going to revert and ask here, about the recent addition of "parent/child" into the word list. @Wargo Specifically, I'm confused about how these terms relate to "perpetuates discrimination and violence". I've tried looking for references in the other guides that are linked on the project page, and I can only find it mentioned as a preferred-alternative to 'master' in Google's developer docs and in the IETF docs; it's also specifically mentioned and endorsed in the inclusivenaming.org listing.
I agree the terms are somewhat ambiguous/confusing, especially when trying to determine the relation of Phabricator tasks, but I'm not sure how they relate to inclusive language as defined on this project page? Please could you elaborate on what you intended with this addition, or share any related references? I'm also uncertain whether "precedent" is a good replacement for "parent", because it has more common definitions that aren't a pairing with "descendant", such as 'legal precedent'. ("ancestor" would be a more obvious pairing to me; but that's all a bit of a tangent anyway!).
I hope these thoughts are helpful, and I do appreciate you thinking about this word list at all! Best wishes, Quiddity (WMF) (talk) 22:12, 11 February 2025 (UTC) Reply
- It has the same meaning as "master and slave" and the inclusivenaming link, althought contradicts himself, confirms this. wargo (talk) 22:49, 11 February 2025 (UTC) Reply
According to en:blacklist, these words are not race-related, so I have removed them from the table. Primefac (talk) 13:30, 14 December 2025 (UTC) Reply
- Same for blackhat/whitehat, which refers to films where they literally wore those colour hats. Primefac (talk) 13:37, 14 December 2025 (UTC) Reply
- Hi, I've re-added the terms to the table since, even if the enwiki article says they are not race-related, it is still easily possible for them to be. A lot of resources on the Inclusive language#Resources page also mention how "blacklist" and "whitelist" shouldn't be used, and I see no reason why MediaWiki should use the terms. Thanks. CardboardLamp (talk) 09:06, 30 December 2025 (UTC) Reply
Is there an alternative for "nonce" (used in security-related code) - which has a very specific and likely upsetting meaning in British English? ESanders (WMF) (talk) 11:53, 19 March 2026 (UTC) Reply
- This is a bit of a sticky wicket (:grin:) because the UK slang is taking over a root word that dates to Middle English and making it into something completely different. Your awareness seems to be leading edge @ESanders (WMF) in that I am not really finding any relevant conversations with a web search for
"inclusive language" "nonce"beyond a few definition sheets that discuss the same negative slang meanings covered by the Wiktionary definition. w:Cryptographic nonce and w:Nonce word don't have any obvious coverage. There is a mention from 2024 on w:Talk:Cryptographic nonce of the problematic alternative usage. - "One time value", "random value", "time-varying value", and "non-repeating value" would all be reasonable replacements in meaning. "Occasionalism" might also work, but that is not self defining in any reasonable way. -- BDavis (WMF) (talk) 21:47, 19 March 2026 (UTC) Reply
- "the UK slang is taking over a root word that dates to Middle English" - I don't think the root word having a different older meaning really matters - this is true of most modern offensive words. Also, for context, while this is referred to as "UK slang", it is also almost universally known in the UK ("We all know what nonce means." from the New Statesman article below) and has been for decades (as opposed to the niche technical term), appearing throughout popular media (film, tv) and informal writing (magazines, tabloid newspapers etc). ESanders (WMF) (talk) 12:36, 20 March 2026 (UTC) Reply
- I seem to remember this issue coming up when WordPress introduced nonces (I think around 2010 or something?). There's a New Statesman article about the issue, and some funny quotes in this blog post. There are places (e.g. in references to CSP nonces) where we don't have any choice in the use of the word. I guess we just make sure it's not used in any en-gb.json file? :-P Sam Wilson 00:37, 20 March 2026 (UTC) Reply