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joaquinelio wants to merge 1 commit into javascript-tutorial:master from joaquinelio:patch-1
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@joaquinelio joaquinelio commented Jul 16, 2020

No changes intended by my own
line 53
Dont know English. I should avoid the coma in Spanish.
You mean:
To avoid confusion: (example)
or
To avoid (ambiguity? should truncate? should leave bigint?) confusion, it's not supported on bigints:

No changes intended.
line 53
Dont know English. I should avoid the coma in Spanish 
You mean: 
To avoid confusion: (example)
or 
To avoid (ambiguity? should truncate? should leave bigint?) confusion, it's not supported on bigints:
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iliakan commented Jul 16, 2020

What you think, @paroche ? =)

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Maybe it s not grammar, just clarify the confusion...

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paroche commented Jul 16, 2020

"On bigints it's not supported, to avoid confusion:"

It reads better with the comma. (And it is my understanding that English uses commas more than Spanish). Without the comma there is some tendency to first try to read it as 'it's not "supported to avoid confusion"', then, since that doesn't make sense, one defaults back to the intended meaning, but it's not as easy. I think it's OK the way it is (before commit), but if you wanted to rephrase, you could say:

"In order to avoid confusion, it's not supported on bigints:"

Maybe a little better. In fact, I'm putting it in.

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iliakan commented Jul 16, 2020
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Thanks @paroche !

It's funny though how different languages have different rules for commas even for same structured sentences.

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paroche commented Jul 16, 2020

Maybe in part it has to do with how much inflection the language has -- how much the form of the word tells you about its role in the sentence. English is relatively sparse in that regard, so word order and punctuation may be more important. Or, in our example, maybe it's more about the specificity of the preposition:

I think in Spanish the sentence would be something like "En bigints no es compatible para evitar (la?) confusion."

Which might be more like saying in English "For bigints it's not compatible in order to avoid confusion."

Which would have less need of a comma (though it could still use one), because "in order to" provides more guidance than just "to".

We are taught not to use commas unless they are needed for clarity. But to use them when they are needed:

Bill: "Why should we worry about commas, they don't make any difference anyway"

The teacher writes on the board:

"Bill says the teacher is mistaken."

"Bill, says the teacher, is mistaken."

@joaquinelio joaquinelio deleted the patch-1 branch July 16, 2020 18:57
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@paroche @iliakan

My bad. The Spanish comma IS needed here.
Sometimes I see it in wrong places (I mean Spanish), not here.

The problem was my reviewer didnt understand so he put: POINT. To avoid confusion:
The colon confused him, not the comma.
So I put "To avoid confusion , it's not supported on bigint" just like you now.

It's the SAME rightful comma!

Thanks!

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paroche commented Jul 16, 2020

And here I was trying to partially justify a lack of comma in Spanish. :-)

It makes more sense that you would have it, though, for the same reason as in English.

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@paroche
I 'm glad you did it. (just dont trust any lazy fool saying wrong things... I'm sorry)

I liked "En bigints no es compatible para evitar (la?) confusion." ("la confusión" sounds better )
It could be ok too.

Maybe we have the same problems with commas
So I teach the trick:
"Bill (, says the teacher, ) is mistaken."
"Bill _ is mistaken" HAS to make sense.
it is easy here, but I usually see errors in longer sentences. And SSpanish can be really long.

No related to this, we just agreed to get rid of "please" in please note and please take...
"plsnowt" vs "Por favor ten en cuenta que" too needy. =)

Thanks for the schooling!

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paroche commented Jul 16, 2020

No related to this, we just agreed to get rid of "please" in please note and please take...
"plsnowt" vs "Por favor ten en cuenta que" too needy. =)

Or just polite. :-)

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@paroche
Still dont like it.
So
It's not supported on bigints in order to avoid confusion.
Not the comma but the order, main concept first. Is it ok?
Now I can sleep, you change it or not. Im not changing spanish anyway,

Structure
Did you know grammar is in our genes? unbelievable...
I just learn it from the Stanford Sapolsky lectures in youtube.

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paroche commented Jul 16, 2020
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In Spanish or in English? In English, I've already updated it, committed, and merged, with:
"In order to avoid confusion, it's not supported on bigints:"

In English, yours is OK, I think this is better. W/ respect to order of concepts, I prefer to have the part that relates most closely to the following example be the part right before the colon.

Sleep well. I guess you're in Spain, not Latin America.

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Both.
Spanish, waiting for review, same as yours: "para evitar...". And stays.
Oh. I forgot the colon : You are right.
Wrong.
Argentina. Pretty cold now. The insane quarantine makes time go crazy.
anyway, it was just an expression.

Thanks again. Nice work there, best js site. 👍

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paroche commented Jul 16, 2020

Ah. As it happens, before the pandemic, I taught Argentine tango for many years (and have been doing it for many more). Now need to do something that isn't so up close and personal.

Credit for the js site, which is impressive, goes to Ilya and crew. My contributions are mostly just tweaking the English here and there.

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Tango!
The dance or the music? "So close and personal". Dance I guess.
Anyway, I'm sad because we are loosing it.

Dance: I had a young friend, she was learning it hard and dances like a pro... that's the problem, very few do it amateur. You don't dance it in every party. There are tanguerías where to go.
I never did, anyway. Guilty.

Music: Time ago it was really high level music, still listened for everybody. Now... Ok, some.
Last big composer Piazzola, he freed the music to the highs, (like Jazz?) Libertango...

Still optimistic. Today everything is recorded, and any musician can study it and make it grow.
I learned English at 50 and now can listen to Asimov, Sagan, David Attemborough, Feynman lectures,
It is magic.
Knowledge from the masters. So anyone can learn from them.
Oh, and linguistics with steve Pinker. nativelang a favorite too.
And PBS eons, science asylum, codys lab, mathloger, dust,
So much fun.
The body is rusting inside my room
but the mind...

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About the site.
Agreed, It IS impressive. MDN and Google are... not good. freecodecamp failed in teaching me async, I had to learn it again (they have it fixed now). Then I tried to do indexedDb for testing an element I was working on, again MDN & Google dev were WRONG. Without stacksoverflow help I would be still fighting it. Then Ilya put his version... wow.
I HAVE to help to translate it. My dream, a young and curious child learning from it.
Ok, he/she HAS to learn English early but I need to help in the meanwhile.
So.
Grammar is important. Without it, the text can be discouraging.
This is NOT like MDN, it is a tutorial, the best one. You are doing your part, I know you are proud.

uh...
Ah, you may tell Ilya we are struggling with "reference type". Advance topic... I dont get it. Maybe he needs your help. Or maybe we are lazy and need to study it better, I dont know. =)

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iliakan commented Jul 17, 2020

@joaquinelio please relax about learning the "reference type", it's more of a theoretical value.

In practice it just means that any call more complex than obj.method(), such as (hi = obj.hi)() loses this.

joaquinelio reacted with thumbs up emoji

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@joaquinelio please relax about learning the "reference type", it's more of a theoretical value.

We know... still we have to translate it.
We have a plan thought.
Put an (more) intimidating sign "hard stuff - you won't make any money with it and you'll never use it" so nobody reads it and realize we didn't understand either.

ah, and we are still looking for part 3 index. Is it compressed and hidden inside the server? Bad boy.
No big deal, but it's more fun than "where's wally

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oh... I got it.
this is a real problem =)
In fact, to avoid window replacing this, I used ( )=>{( )=>{ }( )}
()=>{this._btUpdate()}

theoretical
abstraction... you lose it if you dont sleep well
noted
bye
thanks

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paroche commented Jul 17, 2020 via email

Yes, the dance. Though I've also done a fair amount of DJing for milongas, both traditional and modern/nuevo/alternative. On Thursday, July 16, 2020 joaquinelio <reply@reply.github.com> wrote: Tango! The dance or the music? "So close and personal". Dance I guess. Anyway, I'm sad because we are loosing it. Dance: I had a young friend, she was learning it hard and dances like a pro... that's the problem, very few do it amateur. You don't dance it in every party. There are tanguerías where to go. I never did, anyway. Guilty. Music: Time ago it was really high level music, still listened for everybody. Now... Ok, some. Last big composer Piazzola, he freed the music to the highs, (like Jazz?) Libertango... Still optimistic. Today everything is recorded, and any musician can study it and make it grow. I learned English at 50 and now can listen to Asimov, Sagan, David Attemborough, Feynman lectures, It is magic. Knowledge from the masters. So anyone can learn from them. Oh, and linguistics with steve Pinker. nativelang a favorite too. And PBS eons, science asylum, codys lab, mathloger, dust, So much fun. The body is rusting inside my room but the mind... — You are receiving this because you were mentioned. Reply to this email directly, view it on GitHub, or unsubscribe.

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@paroche last one (promise... here)
I dont wanna bother Ilya, but you may be interested (apologies if not) in

Maybe I was wrong in being wrong,
and you were maybe right in justifying the lack of comma based on my wrong wrong question.

Here the answer of Fundeu, asesorada por la "Real Academia Española".
I sent it with cakes, sugar and "cloy" (is that the word?) avoidance all the three in place of the tech stuff. It was not enough. I couldn't get a straight answer, but I got:

Fundéu BBVA
to me
La puntuación depende en muchos casos del contexto y del sentido. (yeahyeah, same in English)
No hay ninguna regla en el sentido que indica, y menos en español, (what we guess already... oh wait. You were right)
lengua que es bastante libre en el orden de los elementos de la
oración.

But what teachers do is rewrite complexity (this is a small and well written chapter and doesn't deserve rewriting).
Instead of struggling with perfection in an all-in-one sentence

"things are this way, to avoid confusion: (example)" --it was born confusing--

split the thing, the confusion with perhaps the lacking Why,
and a simple and standalone
"Example:" (not about the confusion but the thing)

Good programmers do that. Ilya knows.

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