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Question1st time custom loop - Advice appreciated

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Hulk

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 1999
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I do a lot of DAW work and need a silent rig, plus I looking for a winter project. This is my first time building a custom loop.

The case will be the Corsair 2500x. CPU currently is a 9950X.

Here's what I'm thinking:

Alphacool Core 1 water block
Corsair XD6 pump reservior
2x Alphacool NexXxos XT45 radiators

Not sure if I'm going hard or soft tubing. I know soft is easier to work with and flows better but hard looks cool and I'm experienced with plumbing so not worried about bending and fitting tubes.

The plan is lots of low headloss radiator area and low speed fans to provide a lot of thermal headroom so fans don't ramp up.

Any advice appreciated.

StefanR5R

Elite Member
Dec 10, 2016
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need a silent rig
Getting big radiators, such that the fans can remain at low speed, is the easy part of that. The difficult part is to deal with pump noise, IMO. I haven't found a silver bullet for that myself yet. (Maybe it's just a matter of soft suspension, or maybe there is more to it...?)

Hulk

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 1999
5,214
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Getting big radiators, such that the fans can remain at low speed, is the easy part of that. The difficult part is to deal with pump noise, IMO. I haven't found a silver bullet for that myself yet. (Maybe it's just a matter of soft suspension, or maybe there is more to it...?)
Waiting on the pump/reservoir and water block. From what I've read the VPP Apex pump is quieter than a D5. I'm hoping to be able to run at very low speeds. I'll let you know how it goes once I get it up and running.

aigomorla

CPU, Cases&Cooling Mod PC Gaming Mod Elite Member
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Sep 28, 2005
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sorry im late to the party, thanksgiving crush had me.

Your parts look solid. Can i ask why your adding such a large amount of rads just to cool your cpu?
Do you intend to add a gpu later?

Hard piping is at best, time consuming.
Dental floss will be your best friend, and no im not kidding.
That is what i used to messure the length required after each section, so i knew exactly how long of a pipe i need.

Bending requires you to get a special gun which u can control heat output otherwise u will burn though rigid piping from melting it and causing it to bubble.

I honestly think you can achieve what you want with a single 360mm UT60 if its only the cpu.

Hulk

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 1999
5,214
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sorry im late to the party, thanksgiving crush had me.

Your parts look solid. Can i ask why your adding such a large amount of rads just to cool your cpu?
Do you intend to add a gpu later?

Hard piping is at best, time consuming.
Dental floss will be your best friend, and no im not kidding.
That is what i used to messure the length required after each section, so i knew exactly how long of a pipe i need.

Bending requires you to get a special gun which u can control heat output otherwise u will burn though rigid piping from melting it and causing it to bubble.

I honestly think you can achieve what you want with a single 360mm UT60 if its only the cpu.
I do a lot of audio/DAW work and am looking for a lot of radiator area to achieve really low fan speeds for a quiet rig. Just waiting on the pump/reservoir and water block, which should be arriving this week.
Going with soft tubing since this is my first try at a custom loop.
Appreciate the comments.

Fallen Kell

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 1999
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I can tell you from experience that the pumps+fans are actually typically louder than just good old air cooling if all you are doing is just cooling for the CPU. The real benefit in sound level would be GPU cooling. For just a CPU, even the 9950X, you can easily get a NH-D15 G2 and only hit 24.8 dBA for the cooling the CPU. The XD6 pump is 35.5 dBA at 50% speed and 48 dBA at 100%, and you still need to factor in the sound output of the fans on the radiators on top of that pump noise.

Hulk

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 1999
5,214
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I can tell you from experience that the pumps+fans are actually typically louder than just good old air cooling if all you are doing is just cooling for the CPU. The real benefit in sound level would be GPU cooling. For just a CPU, even the 9950X, you can easily get a NH-D15 G2 and only hit 24.8 dBA for the cooling the CPU. The XD6 pump is 35.5 dBA at 50% speed and 48 dBA at 100%, and you still need to factor in the sound output of the fans on the radiators on top of that pump noise.
Thanks for the comment. I've used a D15, Assassin, various AIO's, etc.. All of the air coolers spin up like mad under load. Water at least as some good thermal capacity so you can get through the "bursty" loads without spinning up fans.
But we shall see once I get all the parts in!
It's as much curiousity as the quest for performance. I've built all kind of rigs over the years going all the way back to an overclocked Celeron 400A. Never done a custom loop.

WelshBloke

Lifer
Jan 12, 2005
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I can tell you from experience that the pumps+fans are actually typically louder than just good old air cooling if all you are doing is just cooling for the CPU. The real benefit in sound level would be GPU cooling. For just a CPU, even the 9950X, you can easily get a NH-D15 G2 and only hit 24.8 dBA for the cooling the CPU. The XD6 pump is 35.5 dBA at 50% speed and 48 dBA at 100%, and you still need to factor in the sound output of the fans on the radiators on top of that pump noise.
But you need case fans even if you are using air cooling. My rad fans are my case fans.
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aigomorla

CPU, Cases&Cooling Mod PC Gaming Mod Elite Member
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Sep 28, 2005
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Well the thing is if he has that much cooling capacity, nothing will run at 100%..
In fact he could probably almost run the radiator passively, i doubt with that much area of coverage, he wouldnt need the fans faster then 900-1100 RPMs TOPS, under full load.

Where As if he had a D15 under 15-20 min of full load, that fan would be screaming.

What CPU are you cooling?

Hulk

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 1999
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Well the thing is if he has that much cooling capacity, nothing will run at 100%..
In fact he could probably almost run the radiator passively, i doubt with that much area of coverage, he wouldnt need the fans faster then 900-1100 RPMs TOPS, under full load.

Where As if he had a D15 under 15-20 min of full load, that fan would be screaming.

What CPU are you cooling?
9950X

Yes, the plan is to have so much radiator area very low fan speeds are required. Also I did some research to find rads that are designed to work optimally at 800rpm fan speed.

It's all theory at this point. I'll know soon how it all works soon.

I'm hoping to run the Alphacool Apex pump at like 50% as you mentioned, where I'm reading it is basically silent and much quieter than a D5.

StefanR5R

Elite Member
Dec 10, 2016
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if he had a D15 under 15-20 min of full load, that fan would be screaming.
For 200 W, a D15's fans only need to be wooshing, not screaming. :-)
Doesn't matter if 15 minutes or 15 months of full load.

I've used a D15, Assassin, various AIO's, etc.. All of the air coolers spin up like mad under load.
They wouldn't have to if we had better instrumentation, e.g. if fan speed was controlled by socket power draw, not by core hotspot temperature.

But you need case fans even if you are using air cooling. My rad fans are my case fans.
FWIW, my watercooled builds are arranged such that the radiator fans are case fans too.1 In particular, exhaust fans, not inlet fans. I don't want pre-warmed air to "cool" the rest of the system. But because air moves only slowly through the suitably large radiator surfaces, I have one or two additional internal fans (typically 80 or 92 mm fans) which push air on to memory/ VRMs/ other stuff which would get hot otherwise. Not much air flow needed there, just avoidance of dead air pockets.

________
1) except for one build with external radiator

Hulk

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 1999
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For 200 W, a D15's fans only need to be wooshing, not screaming. :-)
Doesn't matter if 15 minutes or 15 months of full load.


They wouldn't have to if we had better instrumentation, e.g. if fan speed was controlled by socket power draw, not by core hotspot temperature.


FWIW, my watercooled builds are arranged such that the radiator fans are case fans too.1 In particular, exhaust fans, not inlet fans. I don't want pre-warmed air to "cool" the rest of the system. But because air moves only slowly through the suitably large radiator surfaces, I have one or two additional internal fans (typically 80 or 92 mm fans) which push air on to memory/ VRMs/ other stuff which would get hot otherwise. Not much air flow needed there, just avoidance of dead air pockets.

________
1) except for one build with external radiator
All valid points.

aigomorla

CPU, Cases&Cooling Mod PC Gaming Mod Elite Member
Super Moderator
Sep 28, 2005
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well 9950 TDP is 170, with PBO: ~ 220W.

Your radiator capacity for 2x360mm = 150W x 6 ~ 900W capacity @ 1gpm @ 1300RPM fans to hold a 3-4C Delta (Coolant temp - Ambient temp)

So just doing basic math... a d5 @ 50% is about .6gpm (rough estimate) and fans at 900RPM... at worst your heat capacity would be like 400W @ 3-4C Delta in your system.... which puts you way into over kill range still.

Meaning my estimate in you being able to run those rads in almost passive still holds.. I think you might even try running only 2 fans on each 360 for a total of 4 fans, and not run all 6 if noise is primary.

You still need fans tho, as those rads are not designed for passive.


Oh i just noticed the block you listed.

Alphacool International GmbH - Water cooling specialist

High End Water Cooling for: OEM Manufacturing - DIY Solutions - Industrial Cooler - Enterprise Solutions - German Development - Own Manufacturing - Since 2003!
www.alphacool.com www.alphacool.com

Ummm... that has a narrow injector plate, which means its designed for head pressure.
They don't perform great in a low head pressure enviorment, because you need that head pressure to cause increased turbulence to pull heat away.

This is what im talking about:
1764725348119.png

A Watercool Heatkiller IV might be a better cpu block for low headpressure because it has a wider return path.
1764725737231.png


The EK Quantium also has a injector, but its wider, to allow a lower pressure though the injector plate, that also might be a better block for lower head pressure.

But also im not too sure if those two blocks were optimized for the a 9950X with its larger die.
But just giving you some options in cpu blocks.

Ideally you want something without an injector plate, but not a lot of vendors will do that, because that injector plate is a cheat that scales better with more head pressure, so they intend you to run the pump at near 100% under PWM settings for increased head pressure and flow, and then run quiet when the cpu is near idle.
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Hulk

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 1999
5,214
3,844
136
well 9950 TDP is 170, with PBO: ~ 220W.

Your radiator capacity for 2x360mm = 150W x 6 ~ 900W capacity @ 1gpm @ 1300RPM fans to hold a 3-4C Delta (Coolant temp - Ambient temp)

So just doing basic math... a d5 @ 50% is about .6gpm (rough estimate) and fans at 900RPM... at worst your heat capacity would be like 400W @ 3-4C Delta in your system.... which puts you way into over kill range still.

Meaning my estimate in you being able to run those rads in almost passive still holds.. I think you might even try running only 2 fans on each 360 for a total of 4 fans, and not run all 6 if noise is primary.

You still need fans tho, as those rads are not designed for passive.


Oh i just noticed the block you listed.

Alphacool International GmbH - Water cooling specialist

High End Water Cooling for: OEM Manufacturing - DIY Solutions - Industrial Cooler - Enterprise Solutions - German Development - Own Manufacturing - Since 2003!
www.alphacool.com www.alphacool.com

Ummm... that has a narrow injector plate, which means its designed for head pressure.
They don't perform great in a low head pressure enviorment, because you need that head pressure to cause increased turbulence to pull heat away.

This is what im talking about:
View attachment 134701

A Watercool Heatkiller IV might be a better cpu block for low headpressure because it has a wider return path.
View attachment 134702


The EK Quantium also has a injector, but its wider, to allow a lower pressure though the injector plate, that also might be a better block for lower head pressure.

But also im not too sure if those two blocks were optimized for the a 9950X with its larger die.
But just giving you some options in cpu blocks.

Ideally you want something without an injector plate, but not a lot of vendors will do that, because that injector plate is a cheat that scales better with more head pressure, so they intend you to run the pump at near 100% under PWM settings for increased head pressure and flow, and then run quiet when the cpu is near idle.
Great information. Thanks so much for taking the time to post.

I picked the Core 1 primarily based on this review. I was looking for something under 1psi with good thermal performance but had not idea about the technical aspects you mentioned.

www.techpowerup.com

Alphacool Core 1 CPU Water Block Review

Alphacool updates its CPU water block offerings with the new Core 1 series. It uses an all-brass housing paired with a nickel-plated copper cold plate and a unique 3D jet plate design for excellent thermal performance while still retaining good CPU socket compatibility. There are multiple top...
www.techpowerup.com www.techpowerup.com

StefanR5R

Elite Member
Dec 10, 2016
6,782
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9950 TDP is 170, with PBO: ~ 220W.
If sustained loads are planned, the PPT Limit is more pertinent. For Ryzen 9950X that's 200 W by default.

[...] my estimate in you being able to run those rads in almost passive still holds.. I think you might even try running only 2 fans on each 360 for a total of 4 fans, and not run all 6 if noise is primary.

You still need fans tho, as those rads are not designed for passive.
Yep, passive radiators need unusually wide fin spacing. — Several years ago, I used an external MORA 360 passively, but by accident. The cable which powered the fans had become unseated, and I noticed this only hours later. It was in August, in Germany, without air conditioning in the apartment. The MORA had to cool three GTX 1080 (correction: three 1080Ti) running SETI@Home, and a Broadwell-E or -EP which drove the GPUs. I was amazed to find that the GTXs did not even run into thermal throttling while the MORA fans were off.
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