Talk:Sovereign Order of the Solar Temple

I'm almost positive that the OVDT descended from the ORT, not the OSTS 193.207.216.238 (talk) 17:45, 26 December 2024 (UTC) Reply

Upon checking another source says that as well. I guess all things in the Arginy movement "descend" from the OSTS, so I will just remove it PARAKANYAA (talk) 21:10, 26 December 2024 (UTC) Reply

It is quite hard to say or not if they all descend from the OSTS. From my understanding, and may also he mistaken I will have to double check, this whole thing is full of schisms upon schisms.

There was internal struggle very early on and this caused a split around 1964. There was a faction that followed and stayed close to Breyer. Another faction, which still had maybe about half of the founding members, "reorganized" and around '66 became the OSTS. The first Grand Master of the OSTS was "Jean", who was actually Jean Soucasse. With Marsan as 'Great Procurator' and head of the "international land" (Monaco), a few years after the founding there was again internal struggle and the Order had split. Jean Soucasse and his brother then created the OTC (Ordre du Temple Cosmique), also known as le College Templiers, which still exists.

Jean-Louis Marsan then became the GM of the OSTS. After dying in a motorcycle accident, J-L Marsan was then succeeded by his son - not by Jean Soucasse.

Later the OSTS would split again a few times, two of which, that I am aware of, still exist today with one faction being in France and the other headquartered in Spain and going by OSTC (Orden Sobran del Templo de Cristo). 193.207.185.137 (talk) 21:59, 26 December 2024 (UTC) Reply

This whole thing gives me a headache. As you said, "schisms upon schisms".

I'll try to see if I can find anything that says any of that because you tend to be right, but things must have sources. It's probably somewhere, I will look for it. The stuff with Marsan vs Soucasse may have actually been a misinterpretation by me and not on the sources, but I will check. PARAKANYAA (talk) 22:05, 26 December 2024 (UTC) Reply

Also, just curious, was the OTC the more "New Age" schism from 1981 that is mentioned in the Le Monde source? Ordre du Temple Cosmique seems like a very New Age type name. PARAKANYAA (talk) 22:09, 26 December 2024 (UTC) Reply

Hm, I found a book that says it is from 1978. But people's memories are often wrong so it could very well be that the Le Monde piece got the date wrong. PARAKANYAA (talk) 22:22, 26 December 2024 (UTC) Reply

I will try to check my sources as to the founding year of OTC. But I believe it would be somewhere around there. I can't say for certain.

What I can say for certain was that the OSTS was on the verge of falling apart after the successive deaths of several of the founding members, including Marcel de Bagot and Robert Baptiste C. And this was around 1978 193.207.185.137 (talk) 22:47, 26 December 2024 (UTC) Reply

It seems that 1978/79 is quite safe to say when the split happened with OTC and OSTS. However, I do not really see much in the ideals of much "New Age", at least any more than was already present in the OSTS. Both are quite observant and religious orders. The changes that occured in the OTC (at least ritualistically) seem minimal. But if you wish to understand the stances of the OSTS read the publications of Peronic, such as "Pourquoi la résurgence de l'Ordre du Temple?". And for the OTC/CT "Révélations Templières - Vers le règne du Saint Esprit". I also have another early publication that was put out by the OTC but can't remember the name at the moment. 193.207.177.15 (talk) 12:45, 28 December 2024 (UTC) Reply

Do you have that book? I tried to find a copy but couldn't find one available. PARAKANYAA (talk) 13:35, 28 December 2024 (UTC) Reply

Which one do you need? 193.207.153.231 (talk) 18:12, 28 December 2024 (UTC) Reply

Pourquoi la résurgence de l'Ordre du Temple? Is the one I tried to find. PARAKANYAA (talk) 18:26, 28 December 2024 (UTC) Reply

Yes. I have a hard copy in French and a digit copy in Spanish. 193.207.153.231 (talk) 18:31, 28 December 2024 (UTC) Reply

If you leave me an email address I'll send you the digital one. 193.207.169.177 (talk) 10:13, 29 December 2024 (UTC) Reply

Sorry for the late response. If you make an account you can email through that. But in lieu of that, you can contact me at swordskyflying[画像:@]outlook.com. And vis a vis the symbols, could you email them as well? The simpler ones could be uploaded but more complicated ones there are probably copyright rules. PARAKANYAA (talk) 04:33, 15 January 2025 (UTC) Reply

Ok. Made an account how is it that you send emails through this? Sorry for my ignorance on this. DENE6KA1T0S (talk) 08:39, 21 January 2025 (UTC) Reply

@DENE6KA1T0S If you go to my user page there's an "email this user" option on the sidebar to the right, if you have email enabled. PARAKANYAA (talk) 08:50, 21 January 2025 (UTC) Reply

Hello. Sorry for the delay. I found a free pdf in Spanish for the book.

https://www-ordendeltemple-org.translate.goog/PROT.pdf?_x_tr_sl=es&_x_tr_tl=ca&_x_tr_hl=es DENE6KA1T0S (talk) 17:46, 4 March 2025 (UTC) Reply

Thank you. PARAKANYAA (talk) 22:33, 5 March 2025 (UTC) Reply

I have pictures of most of the official seals of most the orders. Just don't know how to upload them. 193.207.101.216 (talk) 19:11, 13 January 2025 (UTC) Reply