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On 27 May 2024, it was proposed that this article be moved from Charles VII of Sweden to Karl Sverkersson. The result of the discussion was moved.

Why 7?

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Why is he Charles VII if there weren't any before him named Charles?

Does anyone check this discussion

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I'd really like to know what the deal is with the 7

Carl III to Carl VIII Fakes

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This king was Carl I Sweartgarson (Sw: Karl Sverkersson), not Charles VII. Carl II Canuteson numbered himself correctly in the 15th century, but Carl IX (1604-1611) began a new numbering series wanting to use a higher (false) number. Carl became an English-language name of its own a long time ago, and it no longer advisable to use the British habit of calling kings of Sweden Charles, in any context. The Wikipedia should enter a cross reference to that effect. See "Throne of a Thousand Years" by Jacob Truedson Demitz (1996), now out of print but available through most National Libraries and many others.

I've heard that the first 6 were legendary. If this is the case then why aren't they among the mythological or semi-mythological kings?

Legendary/Mythological

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Why are the first 6 Karls not mentioned in the legendary and semi legendary kings?

They were all just called "Carolus", and all six were described briefly and in complimentary terms, but not enough to include in what you asked about. The timeline is so extremely silly (thousands of years) that it's not worth mentioning. There are no actual legends about any of those characters. --SergeWoodzing (talk) 11:07, 25 January 2022 (UTC) [reply ]

Ordinal number

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Ok, I answered this on the Reference Desk page, but I'll repeat it:

The answer is that Charles VII (Sverkersson) was the first historical king named "Karl". The other 6 were inventions of Johannes Magnus in his book Gothorvm sveonvmqve historia, where the author provides a fictuous list of Swedish kings since the Fall of man. The first king to actually use an ordinal number was Erik XIV, who used Magnus' list. The reason these kings are not listed in the "semi-legendary" or "mythological" kings is that the source is too recent, and not even the most nationalist of historians have believed it since the 18th century. The mythological kings on the other hand are from more contemporary sources like Beowulf, and are harder to disprove.

An related anecdote is that when Karl XIV Johan became the first Swedish king of Norway, the Norwegians insisted on calling him Charles III, since Norway had only had 2 "Karl"s before him. The king wished to be the XIV in Norway as well, and pointed out that it shouldn't matter since Sweden hadn't had 13 "Karl"s before him, either. As something of a compromise, he was more commonly referred to as "Karl Johan" in Norway, without any ordinal. (Oslo's main street is named after him.) --BluePlatypus 19:15, 5 January 2006 (UTC) [reply ]


Charles XIV was not the first Swedish king of Norway. Before him, there had been at least three (or, with liberal interpretation of "Swedish", many more) Swedish kings of Norway: Magnus IV, Charles Knutson, and Charles XIII. Whereas it would be totally correct top say that Charles XIV was the first French king of Norway. Suedois 06:27, 18 August 2006 (UTC) [reply ]

Duplicate article?

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Is he the same person as Kol Sverkerson? Ardric47 01:18, 21 February 2007 (UTC) [reply ]

Yes I think so. / Fred-Chess 21:54, 21 February 2007 (UTC) [reply ]

Invented kings

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Did Johannes Magnus invent the House of Munsö, or did he not refer to the kings of that house in his work?

Fred-J 08:57, 24 October 2007 (UTC) [reply ]

Ok, I confused Karl with Erik. Question withdrawn. / Fred-J 09:12, 24 October 2007 (UTC) [reply ]

Move discussion in progress

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There is a move discussion in progress on Talk:Charles VIII of Sweden which affects this page. Please participate on that page and not in this talk page section. Thank you. —RMCD bot 11:02, 27 May 2024 (UTC) [reply ]

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