Talk:Kaiserreich (video game mod)
Discussions
- No consensus, 26 May 2026, from Kaiserreich (video game) to Kaiserreich: Legacy of the Weltkrieg, see discussion.
- Moved, 23 June 2026, from Kaiserreich (video game) to Kaiserreich (video game mod), see discussion.
Since this mods notability has been discussed in the past, usually ending in it being merged or deleted, I'm making a statement here that I firmly believe that this mod is notable enough for its own article. Since the last discussion regarding this mod on the talk page for the pages long title Talk:Kaiserreich: Legacy of the Weltkrieg, an article from PCGamesN was published about the mod and serving as reception.
Combined with the existing Wargamer and Kotaku articles, which are both incredibly substantial, I believe that this mod now meets general notability guidelines, with significant coverage from several reliable sources, as well as WP:SUSTAINED since the sources range over the span of a few years. And based on the fact I was able to get two reception paragraphs (could easily make it three, plus a small legacy/audience section) and a whole section detailing the mods setting, I think there's clearly a case for this mod to be separate and it doesn't fall under WP:MERGEREASON. λ Negative MP1 08:36, 8 July 2024 (UTC) Reply
- I disagree, only 1 of the sources (maybe 2 depending on the notability of wargamer, I'm just unfamiliar with them) talks about Kaiserreich in depth, while all the other mention it in passing when talking about the main game, or compiling a list of top mods.
- As this article stands now I don't see its coverage as notable. Scu ba 04:55, 20 February 2025 (UTC) Reply
- Blatantly false . There are several reliable sources (all of which are reliable per WP:VG/S) that cover the mod, in detail, over the span of a few years. The listicles are just extra, rather than what the article itself rests upon. This is a pretty clear pass of WP:GNG. λ Negative MP1 05:00, 20 February 2025 (UTC) Reply
- @Scu ba: Pinging you so that this can actually be discussed instead of trying to start an edit war or a loose discussion with edit summaries. Replying to Special:Diff/1276692729, WP:VG/S (a page that covers sources deemed reliable by WikiProject Video games states that Kotaku content published from 2010-about 2022 is generally reliable (save for completely worthless "geeky" type coverage), and the Kotaku article cited here is within that timeframe, specifically 2019. And while Wargamer and PCGamesN are not on WP:RSP (as they are subject specific sources), they are listed as reliable on VG/S. Also, another question: if you're concerned about the articles sourcing, why would you make it worse by adding an unsourced paragraph? I find that extremely odd. λ Negative MP1 08:12, 20 February 2025 (UTC) Reply
- I judge a Hearts of Iron 4 mod as a
worthless "geeky" type coverage
. Scu ba 14:37, 20 February 2025 (UTC) Reply- That's pretty clearly not what the article is, but okay. I think the subject is a pretty clear pass of GNG. If you disagree, then nominate it for deletion. But I'm still going to stand my ground. λ Negative MP1 16:01, 20 February 2025 (UTC) Reply
- I judge a Hearts of Iron 4 mod as a
- @Scu ba: Pinging you so that this can actually be discussed instead of trying to start an edit war or a loose discussion with edit summaries. Replying to Special:Diff/1276692729, WP:VG/S (a page that covers sources deemed reliable by WikiProject Video games states that Kotaku content published from 2010-about 2022 is generally reliable (save for completely worthless "geeky" type coverage), and the Kotaku article cited here is within that timeframe, specifically 2019. And while Wargamer and PCGamesN are not on WP:RSP (as they are subject specific sources), they are listed as reliable on VG/S. Also, another question: if you're concerned about the articles sourcing, why would you make it worse by adding an unsourced paragraph? I find that extremely odd. λ Negative MP1 08:12, 20 February 2025 (UTC) Reply
- Blatantly false . There are several reliable sources (all of which are reliable per WP:VG/S) that cover the mod, in detail, over the span of a few years. The listicles are just extra, rather than what the article itself rests upon. This is a pretty clear pass of WP:GNG. λ Negative MP1 05:00, 20 February 2025 (UTC) Reply
The map of the Reichspakt is incredibly inaccurate, and I recommend changing it. However, I have not found any images that are not subject to copyright, so I think we should remove it for the time being.Iamindeedahuman (talk) 21:45, 8 December 2024 (UTC) Reply
- @HASC2011 tagging the person who added it for their input on this discussion. Harryhenry1 (talk) 04:51, 9 December 2024 (UTC) Reply
i think it has enough lore to be made into an article and also it has a lot of gameplay and even has a lot of submods from itself ForceFifteen (talk) 09:01, 29 December 2025 (UTC) Reply
- If it has enough coverage from reliable independent sources, it might be warranted. Having "enough lore", "a lot of gameplay", and "a lot of submods" wouldn't be enough for its own article. Harryhenry1 (talk) 11:48, 29 December 2025 (UTC) Reply
- ok (this is me). ~2025-43697-54 (talk) 11:50, 29 December 2025 (UTC) Reply
- :D NhanTNT (talk) 04:35, 4 January 2026 (UTC) Reply
- What are they licensed under? Zenphia1 (talk) 16:06, 26 May 2026 (UTC) Reply
- The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
The result of the move request was: no consensus. This discussion kind of veered off into being about WP:NCVG instead, and while that certainly supports using (video game) instead of (mod), which I agree is questionable, the diversion led to insufficient discussion about the merits of a WP:NATDAB to say there is a consensus on that matter here. (closed by non-admin page mover) ⹃Maltazarian ᚾparley {\displaystyle \lor }investigateᛅ 12:33, 10 June 2026 (UTC) Reply
Kaiserreich (video game) → Kaiserreich: Legacy of the Weltkrieg Kaiserreich: Legacy of the Weltkrieg – Using "video game" here is rather misleading as Kaiserreich only exists as a mod for Hearts of Iron IV, not as a standalone game. Using the official full title would be preferable in this case. Zenphia1 (talk) 16:10, 26 May 2026 (UTC) — Relisting. {{GearsDatapacks |talk |contribs }} 21:34, 2 June 2026 (UTC) Reply
- Support I agree that video game is an odd disambiguation, making the subtitle a better disambiguator. 1brianm7 (talk) 18:55, 28 May 2026 (UTC) Reply
- Oppose WP:NCVG considers mods video games, and the version with the subtitle is seldom-used, if at all. ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ (ᴛ) 17:03, 29 May 2026 (UTC) Reply
- That guideline seems to have been disregarded. Every single mod requiring disambiguation, except this one and a few for Quake and Half Life, is disambiguated with (mod). I'd also support that disambiguation scheme, for the record. 1brianm7 (talk) 17:39, 29 May 2026 (UTC) Reply
- Upon further consideration, I agree and support moving it only to Kaiserreich (mod). Personally, I do not believe that mods should be considered full video games for disambiguation purposes unless they have been released as standalone games. They are built on top of previous video games, and that should be made clear. I will consider asking for the rule to be changed in the future, and if consensus decides otherwise, they can all be moved procedurally. ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ (ᴛ) 18:58, 29 May 2026 (UTC) Reply
- That guideline seems to have been disregarded. Every single mod requiring disambiguation, except this one and a few for Quake and Half Life, is disambiguated with (mod). I'd also support that disambiguation scheme, for the record. 1brianm7 (talk) 17:39, 29 May 2026 (UTC) Reply
- WP:NCVG specifically recommends against this: "For the purpose of naming, modifications (mods) are considered stand-alone video games. (...) When disambiguating, use (video game), not (mod)." A discussion at Wikipedia talk:Naming conventions (video games) is probably a good idea. 162 etc. (talk) 22:00, 2 June 2026 (UTC) Reply
- I've started such a discussion. 1brianm7 (talk) 22:35, 2 June 2026 (UTC) Reply
- WP:NCVG specifically recommends against this: "For the purpose of naming, modifications (mods) are considered stand-alone video games. (...) When disambiguating, use (video game), not (mod)." A discussion at Wikipedia talk:Naming conventions (video games) is probably a good idea. 162 etc. (talk) 22:00, 2 June 2026 (UTC) Reply
- Oppose, pending the outcome of the discussion at WP:VG, per above. 162 etc. (talk) 21:29, 3 June 2026 (UTC) Reply
" The mod has been met with a positive response from critics, viewing its setting as surpassing that of the base game and allowing for more possibilities" is a claim that would need some sort of citation. Which critics are saying that and where? ~2026-32981-05 (talk) 14:45, 2 June 2026 (UTC) Reply
- Citations are not needed in the lede of articles (WP:LEADNOCITE). That sentence is summarizing the reception section of the article. 1brianm7 (talk) 22:36, 2 June 2026 (UTC) Reply
- The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
The result of the move request was: moved. (closed by non-admin page mover) {{GearsDatapacks |talk |contribs |in solidarity }} 13:11, 30 June 2026 (UTC) Reply
Kaiserreich (video game) → Kaiserreich (video game mod) – This is a mod, not a video game, and so we should go with the disambiguation scheme (video game mod). The previous RM, which suggested a different disambiguation in order to remove the inaccurate (video game), found no consensus because it was consumed by discussion about the recommendations in WP:NCVG being stupid. A discussion occurred, and that guideline has now been changed by me. So, let's do it. pinging previous participants, @Maltazarian, Masem, Gonnym, 162 etc., Zenphia1, and Zxcvbnm: 1brianm7 (talk) 01:11, 23 June 2026 (UTC) Reply
- Support: this is a prime example for why we set out to update WP:NCVG: to avoid using inaccurate and jarring disambiguatioms. The minor cost of having to use an additional space and three letters is worth it. ⹃Maltazarian ᚾparley {\displaystyle \lor }investigateᛅ 02:10, 23 June 2026 (UTC) Reply
- Support per WP:NCVGDAB. Kaiserreich is not a standalone game and is a mod of HOI4. Raskuly 🐰 19:12, 23 June 2026 (UTC) Reply
- Support misleading to call this a video game. Shadow4dark (talk) 19:57, 23 June 2026 (UTC) Reply
- Oppose per WP:CONCISE. Unnecessary. There is no other video game with this title. Walrasiad (talk) 03:40, 24 June 2026 (UTC) Reply
- There is also no video game with this title. While some mods (e.g., Counter-Strike) are better known as their own video game rather than a mod derivative of another video game, Kaiserreich is not that. The intent of the WP:NCVG revision (at least on my part) was that mods known as being mods would be disambiguated with (video game mod), while mods known in their own right would continue to be disambiguated with (video game). WP:CONCISE says
The goal of concision is to balance brevity with sufficient information to identify the topic to a person familiar with the general subject area.
. I am familiar with Kaiserreich and so is Zenphia1, and we both started RMs because we thought (video game) did not identify it. 1brianm7 (talk) 04:02, 24 June 2026 (UTC) Reply
- There is also no video game with this title. While some mods (e.g., Counter-Strike) are better known as their own video game rather than a mod derivative of another video game, Kaiserreich is not that. The intent of the WP:NCVG revision (at least on my part) was that mods known as being mods would be disambiguated with (video game mod), while mods known in their own right would continue to be disambiguated with (video game). WP:CONCISE says
- These are distinctions that can be clarified in the lede. It doesn't need to be in the title. A "video game mod" is a video game, not a laundry detergent. Just like a "black & white movie" is a movie, or a "oil painting" is a painting. Extra syllables serve no purpose. The current disambiguation is sufficient. Walrasiad (talk) 04:37, 24 June 2026 (UTC) Reply
A "video game mod" is a video game
I just don't think that is always true. If somebody said "I was playing the video game Minecraft", I wouldn't say "uh, no, you were playing the open-world sandbox video game Minecraft". If somebody told me they were playing the video game Kaiserreich, I would ask if they meant the mod Kaiserreich. If somebody said they were playing the mod Kaiserreich, I wouldn't go "You mean the World War II grand strategy sandbox total-conversion mod Kaiserreich?" I'm struggling to think of comparisons that actually parallels it. Maybe if somebody told me "I was learning about the TV series The Simpsons opening sequence". Regardless, the changes to WP:NCVG were predicated on it sometimes being preferable to disambiguate a video game mod with (video game mod) instead of (video game). Your disagreement would seem to be with the consensus that was established there. 1brianm7 (talk) 10:09, 24 June 2026 (UTC) Reply- If your mother asked you what you were doing, my bet is you'd reply "I am playing a video game", not "I'm playing a video game mod". Am I right?
- Wikipedia is directed towards the general public, not specialists. As for consensus at NCVG, I didn't see an RFC, but I saw you changed the wording recently. There's more to consensus than a quick conversation between a couple of people. Walrasiad (talk) 16:07, 24 June 2026 (UTC) Reply
- There wasn't an RFC. It was about a half dozen people over a week. Here's the thing, if my mother asked me what I was doing while playing the Hearts of Iron IV mod Kaiserreich, I would say I was playing a video game, because I was playing Hearts of Iron IV. Kaiserreich is entirely ancillary to Hearts of Iron IV. It does not exist without Hearts of Iron IV and I would never describe it in such a way, just like I wouldn't say I was playing the video game Hot Coffee if I was playing San Andreas (ignoring the obvious reason I would never tell my mother I was playing it). 1brianm7 (talk) 20:04, 24 June 2026 (UTC) Reply
- These are distinctions that can be clarified in the lede. It doesn't need to be in the title. A "video game mod" is a video game, not a laundry detergent. Just like a "black & white movie" is a movie, or a "oil painting" is a painting. Extra syllables serve no purpose. The current disambiguation is sufficient. Walrasiad (talk) 04:37, 24 June 2026 (UTC) Reply
- Support- straight forward instance to apply greater clarification about the subject LincolnMagnus (talk) 21:29, 26 June 2026 (UTC) Reply
- Support Kaiserreich is a mod of HOI4, not a game in itself. Naming it as a video game mod would make much more sense. Map Enjoyer (talk) 01:46, 30 June 2026 (UTC) Reply