Talk:John S. Clarke

It appears that "John Clarke" was more commonly referred to as John S. Clarke or John Smith Clarke in both contemporary news reports and subsequent biographies, including the ODNB (which uses John Smith Clarke). Should the article title be changed to reflect that? Unexpectedlydian^♯4 talk^‽ 19:17, 10 October 2022 (UTC) [reply ]

@Unexpectedlydian: Let's see... The available-online third-party sources cited here that mention him (which, for a would-be GA, I'm assuming are a good representation of sources overall) have 6 "John Smith Clarke", 14 "John S. Clarke", 1 (Three Scottish Poets) refuses to load. Pen Pictures of Russia Under the Red Terror, while cited as "Smith", actually has "S." on the title page. So I would support a move to "S." based on that. @MapReader: You moved this from "John Smith Clarke" in 2017. Do you have any thoughts? -- Tamzin ^{[cetacean needed ]} (she|they|xe) 09:32, 26 December 2022 (UTC) [reply ]

"John Smith Clarke" would be appropriate if he had a two-part surname, but he doesn't - "Smith" is his middle name, and he is routinely referred to as "Mr Clarke" in contemporary sources. So I wouldn't support moving back to John Smith Clarke. It's true that a fair few sources include his middle initial, at least upon first reference or in the titles of his articles etc., but whether this is sufficient to conclude that the initial is part of his Commonname is debateable? MapReader (talk) 09:50, 26 December 2022 (UTC) [reply ]

WP:INITS advises, Generally, use the most common format of a name used in reliable sources: if that is with a middle name or initials, make the Wikipedia article title conform to that format. No sources cited in this article say just "John Clarke", and more say "John S. Clarke" than "John Smith Clarke", so "S." would seem to be the way to go. -- Tamzin ^{[cetacean needed ]} (she|they|xe) 10:12, 26 December 2022 (UTC) [reply ]

Thanks both, I can’t recall coming across any sources which called him just "John Clarke". I’d be keen to change the article title. Unexpectedlydian^♯4 talk^‽ 10:45, 26 December 2022 (UTC) [reply ]

Well, his own publications - for the attribution of which, one assumes he made the decision - are the most authoritative source, and these all include the initial rather than the name. So if there is a move I would suggest adding the initial. MapReader (talk) 13:12, 26 December 2022 (UTC) [reply ]

Great, thank you both for your help. I’m happy to change the name of the article later on today. Not sure how it’ll affect the GA nom, but if it breaks I’ll re-submit. Unexpectedlydian^♯4 talk^‽ 13:39, 26 December 2022 (UTC) [reply ]

Hi @MapReader, @Tamzin, just confirming the page has now been renamed. Unexpectedlydian^♯4 talk^‽ 11:01, 27 December 2022 (UTC) [reply ]

@Unexpectedlydian: Great! Although since that left John S. Clarke redirecting to John S. Clarke (socialist politician), it made the disambiguator in the title unnecessary. Since that's an admin/pagemover-only move, I've gone ahead and done it for you. And then added the appropriate hatnote. Look good to you? -- Tamzin ^{[cetacean needed ]} (she|they|xe) 07:26, 28 December 2022 (UTC) [reply ]

@Tamzin Awesome, thanks so much! Looks good to me :) Unexpectedlydian^♯4 talk^‽ 10:17, 28 December 2022 (UTC) [reply ]