Talk:Abbas ibn Ali

This recent edit removed reliably-sourced content from the article claiming that it didn't appear in the source. This claim is false and this edit will be reverted. Here is the text from the source:

Furthermore, ʿAlī b. Muḥammad Ṣāḥib al-Zanj, who started the Zanjī rebellion in Bahrain and Iraq in the middle of the 3rd/9th century, claimed to be descended from al-ʿAbbās b. ʿAlī (see al-Ṭabarī, 9/410).

Another edit changed 'the first Shia Imam' to 'first imam in Shia doctrine' with an anti-Shia edit summary. It's difficult to see how this edit improves the article. This too will be reverted, especially because of its edit summary. I'll wait a little bit for a response here before restoring the article to its earlier version. Note that the alternative to discussion and consensus on the talk page is having the IP address reported and blocked temporarily or permanently if the edit war resumes. Albertatiran (talk) 07:36, 16 May 2023 (UTC) Reply

Ok, if one agree with you, but, Ali ibn Muhammmad Sahib al-Zanj during his time in Baghdad, also claimed descent from Zayd ibn Ali, but later he claimed descent from Al-Abbas ibn Ali. Plus, my changing of 'first Shia imam' to 'first imam in Shia doctrine' is not anti-Shia at all. But i am trying to make the article in accordance with Wikipedia policies, which don't subscribe to the belief based stuffs, also this introduction is against the Wikipedia policy of WP:NPOV. 103.169.65.150 (talk) 14:56, 16 May 2023 (UTC) Reply

I've restored the claim of Ali ibn Muhammad Sahib al-Zanj. But, further, I've added that this claim has been rejected by many historians. 103.169.65.150 (talk) 15:08, 16 May 2023 (UTC) Reply

I spot-checked one of the new references and it looks ok. Thank you for that. Albertatiran (talk) 08:24, 17 May 2023 (UTC) Reply

The birth date is given on May 15, 647. Well, this corresponds to Sha'ban 1, 26 A.H in Islamic calendar. But Abbas was born on Sha'ban 4 of that year. So his birth date should be May 18, 647. The death date also is given on October 10, 680. This corresponds to Muharram 7, 61. But Abbas and the rest of Hussein ibn Ali's troops were killed on Muharram 10, 61. So the true death date is October 13, 680. Aminabzz (talk) 01:02, 6 August 2023 (UTC) Reply

For both dates the article follows reliable sources. Also, please see the date in Battle of Karbala. Hope this helps. Albertatiran (talk) 11:18, 6 August 2023 (UTC) Reply

I was wrong. I didn't take the difference between Julian and Gregotian calendars into account. Thank you for your reply. Aminabzz (talk) 16:56, 7 August 2023 (UTC) Reply

Hey guys, as a Shia muslim, who visited Karbala each year, i know that the 7th day of muharram is the mourning day for abbas (3). Though i don’t have official sources for it. Could someone help out? Mortajaboi (talk) 22:43, 20 July 2024 (UTC) Reply

Thank you @Albertatiran for highlighting concerns. I’d like to clarify the basis for including the image and respectfully request consideration for re-inclusion:

1. Original, user-created, and freely licensed: This image is a manually illustrated vector work (not generated by AI), created by the contributor and released under a compatible free license (e.g., CC BY-SA), in line with Wikipedia:Image use policy and Wikipedia:Uploading images.
2. Non-AI origin: The image was not produced using generative AI tools and is the result of direct human authorship.
3. Culturally relevant visual content: The image provides visual representation aligned with significant Shia Islamic symbolism regarding Abbas ibn Ali. Such cultural depictions hold meaning for millions of adherents and align with Wikipedia:Neutral point of view and Wikipedia:Manual of Style/Images guidelines, which support culturally grounded perspectives when accurately contextualized.
4. Respect for religious traditions: The faceless portrayal is a deliberate artistic decision rooted in Shia norms of religious reverence, where fully detailed depictions of holy persons are often avoided. This is not a deficiency but a symbolic device common in Shia iconography.

Hello to the Wikipedia community,

I am writing to you as Muntadher Saleh, an Iraqi polymath and the creator of the artwork currently hosted on Commons as

I am disclosing my connection to the work as the artist to ensure full transparency.

I am proposing the restoration of this image to the article. I was recently contacted by a volunteer to provide formal copyright permission (cleared via VRT), and I would be honored to have this work included as a contemporary representation of the subject.

As a Shia Muslim, I created this piece to reflect traditional iconographic standards. The faceless style and luminous halo are deliberate scholarly and artistic choices intended to emphasize the spiritual sanctity and "holiness" of Abbas ibn Ali, rather than a literal physical depiction.
The style represents a specific, respectful tradition of Islamic art that helps readers understand how the figure is viewed and venerated in modern spiritual contexts.

The copyright has been fully verified and released under CC BY-SA 4.0. As my expertise lies in research and creation rather than the technical Manual of Style, I welcome the assistance of experienced editors to integrate this file in a way that best serves the article's readability and standards. Thank you for your consideration and for your dedication to this encyclopedia. Sincerely,

Muntadher Saleh
Iraqi Polymath Muntadher0 (talk) 17:04, 11 February 2026 (UTC) Reply  

This is a WP:UG artistic drawing and therefore unacceptable as an image for a biographical article. There is no WP:RS to support it. Instead of being neutral for our encyclopedia to identify the subject, it is explicitly biased towards the subject and intended to promote a specific emotion. DMacks (talk) 20:51, 14 February 2026 (UTC) Reply

@DMacks, I appreciate your perspective on the guidelines. I want to clarify that I only brought this proposal here because I was specifically instructed to do so by the Wikipedia Volunteer Response Team (VRT).

After I cleared the copyright permissions for the file, the volunteer Geoffrey Lane explicitly suggested that I propose its addition here on the Talk page to seek community input. As an Iraqi polymath, my goal is to share a culturally significant representation that adheres to the faceless, luminous iconographic traditions of the Shia faith—a style that is central to how the subject is venerated.

I understand the concerns regarding WP:UG, but I am acting on the guidance provided by your fellow volunteers to ensure this tribute is handled through the proper channels. If the main biography section is not suitable, perhaps we can discuss where a contemporary representation of these traditional artistic standards would be appropriate within the encyclopedia? Muntadher0 (talk) 20:57, 14 February 2026 (UTC) Reply