Forgejo lemmy community #116

circlebuilder commented 2023年01月20日 07:38:37 +01:00

Yesterday in chat there was an (unfortunately heated) discussion with someone who wished Forgejo was present on Twitter for announcement. The argument was: The more channels Forgejo uses for PR and announcements is beneficial to the project health, i.e. by increasing likelihood for Forgejo to find more contributors, grow the community.

In response chat members pointed out the FOSS-only philosophy of Forgejo. Which is, I think, appropriate and a feature. Forgejo's primary PR channel is the Fediverse, with its microblogging account.

Expanding presence on the Fediverse - Forgejo === fedi-focussed - may be way to go. There has been discussion about having a forum channel for async threaded discussion and building an archive of past threads.

Maybe Lemmy can be used for this purpose. There should obviously be volunteers to moderate a Lemmy community, and maybe Forgejo should self-host a Lemmy instance. But after the community is started, moderation overhead is rather low (my experience as I moderate Fediverse Futures myself).

Note that a need was expressed to have a Blog section on the website. But this may not be needed. Guest authors could create articles with rich markdown on the Lemmy channel. Post entry and comments federate and can be boosted via Mastodon and other microblogging apps.

Yesterday in chat there was an (unfortunately heated) discussion with someone who wished Forgejo was present on Twitter for announcement. The argument was: The more channels Forgejo uses for PR and announcements is beneficial to the project health, i.e. by increasing likelihood for Forgejo to find more contributors, grow the community. In response chat members pointed out the FOSS-only philosophy of Forgejo. Which is, I think, appropriate and a feature. Forgejo's primary PR channel is the Fediverse, with its microblogging account. Expanding presence on the Fediverse - Forgejo === fedi-focussed - may be way to go. There has been discussion about having a forum channel for async threaded discussion and building an archive of past threads. Maybe Lemmy can be used for this purpose. There should obviously be volunteers to moderate a Lemmy community, and maybe Forgejo should self-host a Lemmy instance. But after the community is started, moderation overhead is rather low (my experience as I moderate [Fediverse Futures](https://lemmy.ml/c/fediversefutures) myself). Note that a need was expressed to [have a Blog section on the website](https://codeberg.org/forgejo/website/issues/65). But this may not be needed. Guest authors could create articles with rich markdown on the Lemmy channel. Post entry and comments federate and can be boosted via Mastodon and other microblogging apps.

circlebuilder commented 2023年01月20日 07:42:11 +01:00

If someone is a regular visitor to Forgejo chat and a more frequent guest author, they can get moderator privilege on the Lemmy community, so that "mods" there actually means "valued guest authors".

If someone is a regular visitor to Forgejo chat and a more frequent guest author, they can get moderator privilege on the Lemmy community, so that "mods" there actually means "valued guest authors".

fsologureng commented 2023年01月20日 16:27:42 +01:00

My only concern is that Lemmy doesn't have a good accessible interface, so that would be another barrier to participation for people with special needs. Discourse is apparently better but with important problems too. Last week I was looking for forums with good accessibility and apparently phpBB is the best option, but Forgejo would need a way to hosting it, and lacks of features as link aggregation.

Another concern about Lemmy is that the popularity ranking algorithms act as echo chambers feeding back biases against unpopular topics or minorities:

https://arxiv.org/abs/1907.13286
https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s10791-017-9312-z
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-022-05434-1

My only concern is that Lemmy doesn't have a good accessible interface, so that would be another [barrier to participation for people with special needs](forgejo/meta#75). Discourse is apparently better but with important problems too. Last week I was looking for forums with good accessibility and apparently [phpBB](https://www.phpbb.com/community/viewtopic.php?t=2403786) is the best option, but Forgejo would need a way to hosting it, and lacks of features as link aggregation. Another concern about Lemmy is that the popularity ranking algorithms act as echo chambers feeding back biases against unpopular topics or minorities: https://arxiv.org/abs/1907.13286 https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s10791-017-9312-z https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-022-05434-1

circlebuilder commented 2023年01月20日 17:53:14 +01:00

@fsologureng you mention phpBB .. Lemmy has recently launched a forum-like UI project based on phpBB: https://github.com/LemmyNet/lemmyBB

Maybe they have also carried over its accessibility level.

Another concern about Lemmy is that the popularity ranking algorithms act as echo chambers feeding back biases against unpopular topics or minorities:

I don't think this is a problem. I just have chronological feeds of the communities I am subscribed to or can choose different ordering e.g. based on 'last active' etc.

@fsologureng you mention phpBB .. Lemmy has recently launched a forum-like UI project based on phpBB: https://github.com/LemmyNet/lemmyBB Maybe they have also carried over its accessibility level. > Another concern about Lemmy is that the popularity ranking algorithms act as echo chambers feeding back biases against unpopular topics or minorities: I don't think this is a problem. I just have chronological feeds of the communities I am subscribed to or can choose different ordering e.g. based on 'last active' etc.

fsologureng commented 2023年01月20日 18:38:18 +01:00

@fsologureng you mention phpBB .. Lemmy has recently launched a forum-like UI project based on phpBB: https://github.com/LemmyNet/lemmyBB

Maybe they have also carried over its accessibility level.

It would be great 👍, so Forgejo needs a way to hosting in case choose it.

Another concern about Lemmy is that the popularity ranking algorithms act as echo chambers feeding back biases against unpopular topics or minorities:

I don't think this is a problem. I just have chronological feeds of the communities I am subscribed to or can choose different ordering e.g. based on 'last active' etc.

Good :)

> @fsologureng you mention phpBB .. Lemmy has recently launched a forum-like UI project based on phpBB: https://github.com/LemmyNet/lemmyBB > > Maybe they have also carried over its accessibility level. It would be great 👍, so Forgejo needs a way to hosting in case choose it. > > > Another concern about Lemmy is that the popularity ranking algorithms act as echo chambers feeding back biases against unpopular topics or minorities: > > I don't think this is a problem. I just have chronological feeds of the communities I am subscribed to or can choose different ordering e.g. based on 'last active' etc. Good :)

KaKi87 commented 2023年01月21日 20:32:57 +01:00

There has been discussion about having a forum channel for async threaded discussion and building an archive of past threads.

Aren't issues the best place for this ?

> There has been discussion about having a forum channel for async threaded discussion and building an archive of past threads. Aren't issues the best place for this ?

circlebuilder commented 2023年01月21日 20:39:54 +01:00

We are doing that now. It is a UX thing. Consider e.g. #19 with 61 long-form comments. It is really hard to parse. They become uncloseable and everything said above is TL;DR to people filling in a new comment. Advantage particular to Lemmy is that it is federated and has potential broader reach than people with Codeberg accounts only. You can comment from your Mastodon et al.

We are doing that now. It is a UX thing. Consider e.g. #19 with 61 long-form comments. It is really hard to parse. They become uncloseable and everything said above is TL;DR to people filling in a new comment. Advantage particular to Lemmy is that it is federated and has potential broader reach than people with Codeberg accounts only. You can comment from your Mastodon et al.

KaKi87 commented 2023年01月21日 21:40:41 +01:00

everything said above is TL;DR to people filling in a new comment

How would posts on Lemmy differ from that ?

Advantage particular to Lemmy is that it is federated and has potential broader reach than people with Codeberg accounts only. You can comment from your Mastodon et al.

So will Forgejo.

> everything said above is TL;DR to people filling in a new comment How would posts on Lemmy differ from that ? > Advantage particular to Lemmy is that it is federated and has potential broader reach than people with Codeberg accounts only. You can comment from your Mastodon et al. So will Forgejo.

circlebuilder commented 2023年01月21日 22:31:16 +01:00

The posts have an additional hierarchical thread view besides list view (which they call Chat view). You can sort, by Hot (in terms of upvote speed), Top (most upvote), New, Old. And you can collapse branches in the tree if you have that view. There's other stuff too, you can flag comments, add a personal block on a commenter (which hides their entries only for you), cross-post to other communities, moderation log. And more things like that.

So will Forgejo.

In due time yes. But with main focus on providing "issue tracking for software development projects" not forums.

The posts have an additional hierarchical thread view besides list view (which they call Chat view). You can sort, by Hot (in terms of upvote speed), Top (most upvote), New, Old. And you can collapse branches in the tree if you have that view. There's other stuff too, you can flag comments, add a personal block on a commenter (which hides their entries only for you), cross-post to other communities, moderation log. And more things like that. > So will Forgejo. In due time yes. But with main focus on providing "issue tracking for software development projects" not forums.

Aminda commented 2023年01月29日 13:00:03 +01:00

I would also like this to be something native to Forĝejo. Gitea would have two related issues:

• Team discussions in gitea? · Issue #14562 · go-gitea/gitea
• Add a GitHub Discussions like forum feature · Issue #17858 · go-gitea/gitea

I would also like this to be something native to Forĝejo. Gitea would have two related issues: * [Team discussions in gitea? · Issue #14562 · go-gitea/gitea](https://github.com/go-gitea/gitea/issues/14562) * [Add a GitHub Discussions like forum feature · Issue #17858 · go-gitea/gitea](https://github.com/go-gitea/gitea/issues/17858)

tallship commented 2023年02月18日 07:36:39 +01:00

@fsologureng you mention phpBB .. Lemmy has recently launched a forum-like UI project based on phpBB: https://github.com/LemmyNet/lemmyBB

Maybe they have also carried over its accessibility level.

Another concern about Lemmy is that the popularity ranking algorithms act as echo chambers feeding back biases against unpopular topics or minorities:

I don't think this is a problem. I just have chronological feeds of the communities I am subscribed to or can choose different ordering e.g. based on 'last active' etc.

Those links posted by @fsologureng were phenomenal! Especially the third one. Interesting, noting the dates of publication, and migration of verbiage incorporated with respect to changes in contemporary usage of terminology (something that I often find cringeworthy, but the third article was refreshingly and analytically even keeled).

I remember glancing at the Lemmy.BB product when it was new, and wondering, "but why?", yet now see some utility.

Time seems to crunch together more and more as it passes though, and I thought I recalled the announcement of it being not so new, but regardless, it has a good look, like traditional forumware yet I suspect the accessibility factor is likely not actually on par with PhpBB proper.

Anyway, algorithmic integration in Lemmy is exceedingly basic, without "intelligence" that pushes influence and agenda in an untoward way like the deprecated silos have baked their engineering into - there's lots of options to view it 'your way' add you point out in detail earlier in this thread, but I still find it awkward for some reason and don't use it too often.

Better than Reddit though by any measure, but I don't think I'd be very supportive of Lemmy.ml based presence, so I'm very glad to see you suggesting that we consider self-hosting - at which point we can merely ask that they federate our instances discussions, making then directly available on that home site.

Sadly, Forĝejo owns no infrastructure with which to do so. So maybe that's a problem we should be discussing soon, aling with what other FOSS tools we can be self-hosting so we're but constantly trying to bend and tweak Forĝejo to do things it's neither intended for, nor easily shaped into.

@fr33domlover recently expressed frustration with not being able to facilitate such governance constructs fur to a lack of formatting ability with respect to tables he wanted to create. We need to diversify the amount of available tools we can have at our disposal (self-hosted) for groupware collaborative utilities, marketing and communications purposes, etc.

The recent observation you made regarding an expansion of assets at our disposal instead of cow towing to ignorant demands that we have crap like twitter accounts hits home more and more, and I wholly concur with you that we should remain true and unwavering on our stated commitment to using only FOSS tools in all things Forĝejo!

suffice it to say that anyone out there can take it upon themselves to use their own twitter account to post links to our marketing and news dissemination items existing within the Fediverse, and that also has the added benefit of encouraging others to ingress and onboard by creating their own Fediverse accounts (and hopefully abandoning, eventually, the deprecated, legacy silo space).

⛵

.

> @fsologureng you mention phpBB .. Lemmy has recently launched a forum-like UI project based on phpBB: https://github.com/LemmyNet/lemmyBB > > Maybe they have also carried over its accessibility level. > > > Another concern about Lemmy is that the popularity ranking algorithms act as echo chambers feeding back biases against unpopular topics or minorities: > > I don't think this is a problem. I just have chronological feeds of the communities I am subscribed to or can choose different ordering e.g. based on 'last active' etc. Those links posted by @fsologureng were phenomenal! Especially the third one. Interesting, noting the dates of publication, and migration of verbiage incorporated with respect to changes in contemporary usage of terminology (something that I often find cringeworthy, but the third article was refreshingly and analytically even keeled). I remember glancing at the Lemmy.BB product when it was new, and wondering, "but why?", yet now see some utility. Time seems to crunch together more and more as it passes though, and I thought I recalled the announcement of it being not so new, but regardless, it has a good look, like traditional forumware yet I suspect the accessibility factor is likely not actually on par with PhpBB proper. Anyway, algorithmic integration in Lemmy is exceedingly basic, without "intelligence" that pushes influence and agenda in an untoward way like the deprecated silos have baked their engineering into - there's lots of options to view it 'your way' add you point out in detail earlier in this thread, but I still find it awkward for some reason and don't use it too often. Better than Reddit though by any measure, but I don't think I'd be very supportive of Lemmy.ml based presence, so I'm very glad to see you suggesting that we consider self-hosting - at which point we can merely ask that they federate our instances discussions, making then directly available on that home site. Sadly, Forĝejo owns no infrastructure with which to do so. So maybe that's a problem we should be discussing soon, aling with what other FOSS tools we can be self-hosting so we're but constantly trying to bend and tweak Forĝejo to do things it's neither intended for, nor easily shaped into. @fr33domlover recently expressed frustration with not being able to facilitate such governance constructs fur to a lack of formatting ability with respect to tables he wanted to create. We **need to diversify** the amount of available tools we can have at our disposal (self-hosted) for groupware collaborative utilities, marketing and communications purposes, etc. The recent observation you made regarding an expansion of assets at our disposal instead of cow towing to ignorant demands that we have crap like twitter accounts hits home more and more, and I wholly concur with you that we should remain true and unwavering on our stated commitment to using **only FOSS tools** in all things Forĝejo! suffice it to say that anyone out there can take it upon themselves to use their own twitter account to post links to our marketing and news dissemination items existing within the Fediverse, and that also has the added benefit of encouraging others to ingress and onboard by creating their own Fediverse accounts (and hopefully abandoning, eventually, the deprecated, legacy silo space). ⛵ .

circlebuilder commented 2023年02月18日 10:55:47 +01:00

@Mikaela:

It would help separate long freeform discussions from being in the issue tracker, and hence make the issue tracker be for true actionable stuff exclusively. Which is good.

So it would help bring solution to long discussions #108 issue, where people have less expectations of things being tackled, as they aren't in issue tracker..

Note that I find the Github Discussions no match for real forum software such as Discourse. Somehow the UX is lacking for me and I find it hard to parse long discussions (doesn't help that GH collapses replies by default).

> @Mikaela: It would help separate long freeform discussions from being in the issue tracker, and hence make the issue tracker be for true actionable stuff exclusively. Which is good. So it would help bring solution to [long discussions #108](https://codeberg.org/forgejo/meta/issues/108) issue, where people have less expectations of things being tackled, as they aren't in issue tracker.. Note that I find the Github Discussions no match for real forum software such as Discourse. Somehow the UX is lacking for me and I find it hard to parse long discussions (doesn't help that GH collapses replies by default).