Setup non-profit #6

oleg-rswll commented 2025年04月18日 04:56:43 +02:00

No description provided.

markuss commented 2025年05月13日 00:37:53 +02:00

OpenStreetMap already exists. Just join them, including all transferring trademarks and have them in charge for arbitration, if necessary.

OpenStreetMap already exists. Just join them, including all transferring trademarks and have them in charge for arbitration, if necessary.

zyphlar commented 2025年05月13日 00:49:48 +02:00

@markuss we'd be very happy to, unfortunately OSMF seems to want to remain agnostic about end user apps (this is why there's not even an official usable web app, only the "website" that's a basic view of data). If any regional OSM chapters want to host us, for example OSM France or US, we'd be very interested.

@markuss we'd be very happy to, unfortunately OSMF seems to want to remain agnostic about end user apps (this is why there's not even an official usable web app, only the "website" that's a basic view of data). If any regional OSM chapters want to host us, for example OSM France or US, we'd be very interested.

boldewyn commented 2025年05月14日 08:50:43 +02:00

There would also be classic Open Source umbrellas like the Linux Foundation or Apache as possibilities.

There would also be classic Open Source umbrellas like the [Linux Foundation](https://www.linuxfoundation.org/projects/hosting) or [Apache](https://incubator.apache.org/) as possibilities.

zyphlar commented 2025年05月17日 23:49:02 +02:00

@boldewyn yeah, if anyone knows of similar organizations like that especially hosted in Europe we're all ears!

@boldewyn yeah, if anyone knows of similar organizations like that especially hosted in Europe we're all ears!

pastk commented 2025年05月18日 12:30:46 +02:00

The ones we know about aready are:

Software Freedom Conservancy https://sfconservancy.org/projects/services/

Commons Conservancy https://commonsconservancy.org/

The Center for the Cultivation of Technology https://techcultivation.org/

Software in the Public Interest https://www.spi-inc.org/projects/

The ones we know about aready are: Software Freedom Conservancy https://sfconservancy.org/projects/services/ Commons Conservancy https://commonsconservancy.org/ The Center for the Cultivation of Technology https://techcultivation.org/ Software in the Public Interest https://www.spi-inc.org/projects/

boldewyn commented 2025年05月18日 19:51:50 +02:00

There are two Germany-based organisations that might be able to help or give some advice: Wikimedia Deutschland and the Document Foundation (the organisation behind LibreOffice). Both are quite successful in doing Open Source stewardship. (Neither is probably a potential host for this project, though.)

Another path to look at is getting money to implement any foundational work. The Sovereign Tech Fund by the German government might be worthwhile to look into and maybe try to apply.

There are two Germany-based organisations that might be able to help or give some advice: [Wikimedia Deutschland](https://wikimedia.de) and the [Document Foundation](https://www.documentfoundation.org/) (the organisation behind LibreOffice). Both are quite successful in doing Open Source stewardship. (Neither is probably a potential host for this project, though.) Another path to look at is getting money to implement any foundational work. The [Sovereign Tech Fund](https://www.sovereign.tech/) by the German government might be worthwhile to look into and maybe try to apply.

zyphlar commented 2025年05月21日 19:06:22 +02:00

Belgium?
UK co-op except unsure about taxes and OSM is trying to move to the EU
Not Finland due to money collection rules

In not so FOSS department, Quad9 moved from USA to Switzerland (although not EU) and AdGuard from USA to Cyprus (I had to check https://adguard.com/en/privacy.html , I thought they were Malta) and Revolut escaped Brexit by moving to Lithuania

Belgium: https://ohai.social/@senficon/114153716874071114

Belgium? UK co-op except unsure about taxes and OSM is trying to move to the EU Not Finland due to money collection rules In not so FOSS department, Quad9 moved from USA to Switzerland (although not EU) and AdGuard from USA to Cyprus (I had to check https://adguard.com/en/privacy.html , I thought they were Malta) and Revolut escaped Brexit by moving to Lithuania Belgium: https://ohai.social/@senficon/114153716874071114

gedankenstuecke commented 2025年05月21日 19:48:06 +02:00

Adding a bit on the Belgium suggestion: Belgium has a structure that is called association internationale sans but lucratif (or international non-profit), which is particularly targeted for international causes that act beyond Belgium (see https://www.lexology.com/library/detail.aspx?g=2a7928c1-def9-49f1-8eb7-075d566da905 and https://www.a4id.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/02/EU-registration-options-for-UK-NGOs-post-Brexit-FINAL-PDF-1.pdf for some details).

The Eclipse Foundation has been using that structure and PostmarketOS is apparently looking into that too: https://gitlab.postmarketos.org/postmarketOS/postmarketos/-/issues/75#note_473084.

I have no first-hand experience with the AISBL, but reached out to Felix to see if he has some suggestions!

Adding a bit on the Belgium suggestion: Belgium has a structure that is called _association internationale sans but lucratif_ (or international non-profit), which is particularly targeted for international causes that act beyond Belgium (see https://www.lexology.com/library/detail.aspx?g=2a7928c1-def9-49f1-8eb7-075d566da905 and https://www.a4id.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/02/EU-registration-options-for-UK-NGOs-post-Brexit-FINAL-PDF-1.pdf for some details). The Eclipse Foundation has been using that structure and PostmarketOS is apparently looking into that too: https://gitlab.postmarketos.org/postmarketOS/postmarketos/-/issues/75#note_473084. I have no first-hand experience with the AISBL, but reached out to Felix to see if he has some suggestions!

zyphlar commented 2025年05月22日 02:07:17 +02:00

This idea from Matrix for Germany nonprofit: https://interalia.host/en/

This idea from Matrix for Germany nonprofit: https://interalia.host/en/

memqaj commented 2025年06月07日 17:27:45 +02:00

I really like the idea of being based in Europe, rather than the US

I really like the idea of being based in Europe, rather than the US

mnalis commented 2025年06月07日 21:41:18 +02:00

There would also be classic Open Source umbrellas like the Linux Foundation or

I would advise against Linux Foundation. Despite the name, it is not community oriented nor stands for software freedom, in fact, quite the contrary, it is more corporate oriented and puts that at the first place; and there were more than a little hubbub with them. See e.g. https://www.zdnet.com/article/linux-foundation-leadership-controversy-erupts/ or https://fossforce.com/2020/01/can-the-linux-foundation-speak-for-free-software/

I really like the idea of being based in Europe, rather than the US

So would I¹ , but I'd prefer some I've at least heard of to have some track record specifically by putting FOSS community at the first place. Free software Europe fits that description nicely, but AFAIK they don't offer such umbrella services like e.g. sfconservancy.org does?

> There would also be classic Open Source umbrellas like the Linux Foundation or I would advise against Linux Foundation. Despite the name, it is not community oriented nor stands for software freedom, in fact, quite the contrary, it is more corporate oriented and puts that at the first place; and there were more than a little hubbub with them. See e.g. https://www.zdnet.com/article/linux-foundation-leadership-controversy-erupts/ or https://fossforce.com/2020/01/can-the-linux-foundation-speak-for-free-software/ > I really like the idea of being based in Europe, rather than the US So would I[^1], but I'd prefer some I've at least heard of to have some track record specifically by putting FOSS community at the first place. [Free software Europe](https://fsfe.org/) fits that description nicely, but AFAIK they don't offer such umbrella services like e.g. sfconservancy.org does? [^1]: then again, I guess many people from US might prefer the nonprofit to be the US one, instead of EU.

Ghost commented 2025年06月08日 05:41:06 +02:00

@mnalis wrote in #6 (comment):

I really like the idea of being based in Europe, rather than the US

So would I1, but I'd prefer some I've at least heard of to have some track record specifically by putting FOSS community at the first place. Free software Europe fits that description nicely, but AFAIK they don't offer such umbrella services like e.g. sfconservancy.org does?

1. then again, I guess many people from US might prefer the nonprofit to be the US one, instead of EU. ↩︎

If all CoMaps wants is the legal protection from potential OM lawsuits, the legal support provided by the SFE may/may not be adequate depending on one's perspective.

https://fsfe.org/about/ourwork.en.html#legal

They state that their legal experts help with "concrete licensing consultancy" and they don't mention providing pro bono law services like the SFC.

However, they also state that they "maintain the world's largest network on legal issues related to Free Software. Participants come from a variety of legal backgrounds, including practicing lawyers, corporate in-house counsel and software engineers with legal skills."

https://fsfe.org/activities/ln/

And having access to this legal network of 400 members can be useful if CoMaps wants to ask for pro bono services through the grapevine, although there is no definite guarantee like what the SFC provides.

@mnalis wrote in https://codeberg.org/comaps/Governance/issues/6#issuecomment-5037030: > > I really like the idea of being based in Europe, rather than the US > > So would I[1](#fn:user-content-1), but I'd prefer some I've at least heard of to have some track record specifically by putting FOSS community at the first place. [Free software Europe](https://fsfe.org/) fits that description nicely, but AFAIK they don't offer such umbrella services like e.g. sfconservancy.org does? > > 1. then again, I guess many people from US might prefer the nonprofit to be the US one, instead of EU. [↩︎](#fnref:user-content-1) If all CoMaps wants is the legal protection from potential OM lawsuits, the legal support provided by the SFE may/may not be adequate depending on one's perspective. https://fsfe.org/about/ourwork.en.html#legal They state that their legal experts help with "concrete licensing consultancy" and they don't mention providing pro bono law services like the SFC. However, they also state that they "maintain the world's largest network on legal issues related to Free Software. Participants come from a variety of legal backgrounds, including practicing lawyers, corporate in-house counsel and software engineers with legal skills." https://fsfe.org/activities/ln/ And having access to this legal network of 400 members can be useful if CoMaps wants to ask for pro bono services through the grapevine, although there is no definite guarantee like what the SFC provides.

pinguin commented 2025年06月11日 07:48:04 +02:00

Any updates here?

Any updates here?

pastk commented 2025年06月11日 12:57:51 +02:00

Most of contributors are now busy with making CoMaps available in various app stores.

In the end of June we'll have a talk with SFC #71

Most of contributors are now busy with making CoMaps available in various app stores. In the end of June we'll have a talk with SFC https://codeberg.org/comaps/Governance/issues/71

oleg-rswll commented 2025年07月16日 20:49:16 +02:00

Meeting with interalia scheduled for:

Monday, July 28, 2025
7:30 AM – 8:00 AM PDT

https://meet.interalia.host/user/rooms/paj-8ta-trk-wp2/join

Meeting with interalia scheduled for: Monday, July 28, 2025 7:30 AM – 8:00 AM PDT https://meet.interalia.host/user/rooms/paj-8ta-trk-wp2/join

oleg-rswll commented 2025年07月17日 19:13:01 +02:00

The meeting rescheduled to July 28th per Paula's request.

The meeting rescheduled to July 28th per Paula's request.

cregox commented 2025年07月28日 15:56:01 +02:00

so, meeting starts in 30min?

so, meeting starts in 30min?

gedankenstuecke commented 2025年07月28日 16:30:28 +02:00

Yes!

Yes!

cregox commented 2025年07月29日 07:53:27 +02:00

i joined but could not hear anyone, then i felt asleep.

any summary?

i joined but could not hear anyone, then i felt asleep. any summary?

gedankenstuecke commented 2025年07月29日 15:02:27 +02:00

I've taken some notes from the meeting with Interalia:

• they are not setup for hosting people that are mostly run on small donations, but are considering that going forward. So far work with orgs that have large grants from foundations
  • They are 501c3 equivalent in the US for tax exemption
  • can either hire people who are based in Germany and have worked with getting contracts for freelancers around the world (e.g. in Asia)
• Regarding CoMaps forming an organisation in the future
  • Using Interalia for an 'incubation phase' is acceptable, happy to see us offboard in the future
  • If we formed an organisation elsewhere, we could use interalia as a European branch, they have done that for other organisations
• donation practicalities:
  • in the end money needs to end in interalia's bank account
  • so far they use a German bank account, but also use wise for other currencies
  • as said, so far not setup individual infrastructure for smaller donations
  • If they start accepting individual donations, then need to figure out how to communicate which jurisdictions can donate tax-deductible
• from interalia's perspective:
  • CoMaps is generally value-aligned and fits
  • They would need to discuss internally if they are willing to setup infrastructure for small donations
  • they take 10% fee, could potentially be a bit higher if lots of small donations
  • manage all financial transactions, making accounts, doing contracts for freelancers, handing in invoices, filing for taxes, but depends on the needs of the project
  • with respect to setting up governance structures for open source specifically, less familiar with our case, but could help and also help find people who can help
• Next steps: they discuss if they want to setup the necessary infrastructure for donation based projects, and we need to think about if they seem a good fit

I've taken some notes from the meeting with Interalia: * they are not setup for hosting people that are mostly run on small donations, but are considering that going forward. So far work with orgs that have large grants from foundations * They are 501c3 equivalent in the US for tax exemption * can either hire people who are based in Germany and have worked with getting contracts for freelancers around the world (e.g. in Asia) * Regarding CoMaps forming an organisation in the future * Using Interalia for an 'incubation phase' is acceptable, happy to see us offboard in the future * If we formed an organisation elsewhere, we could use interalia as a European branch, they have done that for other organisations * donation practicalities: * in the end money needs to end in interalia's bank account * so far they use a German bank account, but also use wise for other currencies * as said, so far not setup individual infrastructure for smaller donations * If they start accepting individual donations, then need to figure out how to communicate which jurisdictions can donate tax-deductible * from interalia's perspective: * CoMaps is generally value-aligned and fits * They would need to discuss internally if they are willing to setup infrastructure for small donations * they take 10% fee, could potentially be a bit higher if lots of small donations * manage all financial transactions, making accounts, doing contracts for freelancers, handing in invoices, filing for taxes, but depends on the needs of the project * with respect to setting up governance structures for open source specifically, less familiar with our case, but could help and also help find people who can help * Next steps: they discuss if they want to setup the necessary infrastructure for donation based projects, and we need to think about if they seem a good fit

uasy commented 2026年01月13日 01:06:44 +01:00

Another financial host from Germany: we aid - they also help Mastodon https://blog.joinmastodon.org/2025/11/mastodon-joins-forces-with-we-aid/

Another financial host from Germany: we aid - they also help Mastodon https://blog.joinmastodon.org/2025/11/mastodon-joins-forces-with-we-aid/

gedankenstuecke commented 2026年01月13日 13:31:10 +01:00

@uasy wrote in #6 (comment):

Another financial host from Germany: we aid - they also help Mastodon https://blog.joinmastodon.org/2025/11/mastodon-joins-forces-with-we-aid/

Thanks! Do you by any chance have more details on them?

@uasy wrote in https://codeberg.org/comaps/Governance/issues/6#issuecomment-9778100: > Another financial host from Germany: we aid - they also help Mastodon https://blog.joinmastodon.org/2025/11/mastodon-joins-forces-with-we-aid/ Thanks! Do you by any chance have more details on them?

gedankenstuecke commented 2026年01月13日 13:32:28 +01:00

Also to give a [very belatedly] update on the interalia bit.

While we are mission/value-wise a good fit, our "fundraising"-model of having many small donations coming in doesn't work well for their current setup, so we'll not be able to go with them at this point 🙂

Also to give a [very belatedly] update on [the interalia](https://codeberg.org/comaps/Governance/issues/6#issuecomment-6037582) bit. While we are mission/value-wise a good fit, our "fundraising"-model of having many small donations coming in doesn't work well for their current setup, so we'll not be able to go with them at this point 🙂

uasy commented 2026年01月13日 21:32:35 +01:00

@gedankenstuecke wrote in #6 (comment):

@uasy wrote in #6 (Kommentar):

Another financial host from Germany: we aid - they also help Mastodon https://blog.joinmastodon.org/2025/11/mastodon-joins-forces-with-we-aid/

Thanks! Do you by any chance have more details on them?

I only know the things that are online about them..

https://www.northdata.de/WE%20AID%20gGmbH,%20Berlin/Amtsgericht%20Charlottenburg%20(Berlin)%20HRB%20241239%20B
https://www.we-aid.org/en/about-us/
https://assets.ctfassets.net/tzudisl15tit/2TqDV9EBWuEikuFLjQcKw3/edf4a28e2935d291d58a7e4b87be4974/T%C3%83_tigkeitsbericht_2024.pdf

@gedankenstuecke wrote in https://codeberg.org/comaps/Governance/issues/6#issuecomment-9788627: > @uasy wrote in #6 (Kommentar): > > > Another financial host from Germany: we aid - they also help Mastodon https://blog.joinmastodon.org/2025/11/mastodon-joins-forces-with-we-aid/ > > Thanks! Do you by any chance have more details on them? I only know the things that are online about them.. https://www.northdata.de/WE%20AID%20gGmbH,%20Berlin/Amtsgericht%20Charlottenburg%20(Berlin)%20HRB%20241239%20B https://www.we-aid.org/en/about-us/ https://assets.ctfassets.net/tzudisl15tit/2TqDV9EBWuEikuFLjQcKw3/edf4a28e2935d291d58a7e4b87be4974/T%C3%83_tigkeitsbericht_2024.pdf

gedankenstuecke commented 2026年01月13日 22:32:37 +01:00

Thanks, the docs are useful! It was mostly in case you had already some first-hand experience with them! 🙂

Thanks, the docs are useful! It was mostly in case you had already some first-hand experience with them! 🙂