SCP-3464 / Discussion
Started by: Wikidot
Date: 12 May 2018 02:56
Number of posts: 31
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This is the discussion related to the wiki page SCP-3464.
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SCP-3464: Olive Garden regularly communes with DEMONIC ENTITIES to summon their SATANIC sempiternal garlic bread
Lt Flops Lt Flops 12 May 2018 03:00

SCP-3464: Olive Garden regularly communes with DEMONIC ENTITIES to summon their SATANIC sempiternal garlic bread
Author: Lt Flops Lt Flops


My 5th SCP! "Demonic garlic bread" is an idea I've had for years now and I wanted to finally do something with it. There aren't too many moving parts here; really, it's simple.

UPDATE — May 9, 2019: This article has been my lowest rated piece for quite some time now. After a partial rewrite last year, and a further overhaul today, I've decided to cut it down completely.


Special Thanks — Critters & Beta Readers

JackalRelated JackalRelated
Scorpion451 Scorpion451
DrBlackBox does not match any existing user name
minmin minmin
Weryllium Weryllium
A Random Day A Random Day
razeus_laz razeus_laz
NatVoltaic NatVoltaic , for allowing SCP-3464 into the Site-201/"Toronto Demon Council" continuity.


Image Attribution

Filename: undead-bread-redemption.jpg
Name: garlic bread
Author: Ted Major
License: Attribution-ShareAlike 2.0 Generic (CC BY-SA 2.0)
Source Link: Flickr


Inspiration

Third Law Hub (Canon Hub)


If you liked this, check out my Author Page!


🌱 Plant the seeds of tomorrow in the soil of today ❤️

Last edited on 31 Mar 2021 20:39 by Lt Flops
by Lt Flops Lt Flops , 12 May 2018 03:00
Lt Flops Lt Flops 12 May 2019 21:04

UPDATE:

IT'S WIZARD CHEFS AGAIN

LONG LIVE WIZARD CHEFS


🌱 Plant the seeds of tomorrow in the soil of today ❤️

Last edited on 11 Dec 2019 04:20 by Lt Flops
by Lt Flops Lt Flops , 12 May 2019 21:04
[Illustrated Version]
Lt Flops Lt Flops 31 Mar 2021 17:45

SCP ILLUSTRATED & Mr. Torchy of Occult Productions recently teamed up to make an incredible video on SCP-3464.

SCP-3464 illustrated (Demonic Garlic Bread)

Check it out! The artwork is FANTASTIC!


🌱 Plant the seeds of tomorrow in the soil of today ❤️

by Lt Flops Lt Flops , 31 Mar 2021 17:45
SpareSigil SpareSigil 12 May 2018 03:54

I like this but I kind of doubt the Foundation would describe a demon as an incorporeal Type-III Tartarean and still use the word "soul".

by SpareSigil SpareSigil , 12 May 2018 03:54
Zzuxon Zzuxon 12 May 2018 04:15

I think they would if souls are a thing they've scientifically demonstrated to exist. Once that happens, the term "soul" is no longer un-clinical.

by Zzuxon Zzuxon , 12 May 2018 04:15
Shaggydredlocks Shaggydredlocks 12 May 2018 06:00

It's not a matter of it not being 'clinical', but rather the terms being at odds with each other. Using pseudo-technical designators for some of the "mystical" elements, and not others, is jarring and inconsistent. This stood out to me as well.

Another thing that was off-putting was the lack of knowledge for how exactly the incident report was compiled. Is it witness testimony? Surveillance recording? It seems all over the place, and gives off the sense that it's all 'telling' without putting enough work into 'showing'. For instance:

They emit a pungent scent, later identified as consistent with geas binding.

How would this be known? How exactly does the SCPF get this information? It can't come from the operative, who's soul is taken, audio/video obviously doesn't record smell, so could it be from interviewing patrons? Even if that is the case, it's to vague to appreciate - there's no detail or context to bridge the gap of why they believe this, which seems lazy when it otherwise could add flavor. It reads as exposition coming directly from the author, and destroys immersion.

This continues for practically the whole log. I would consider reading more works like SCP-2696 or SCP-3189, both of which describe mystical elements with clear understanding and precision.

As an aside:

The two dishes are ritually sacrificed and summarily consumed.

You can't sacrifice a dinner (unless I suppose it was a live dish). It'd be an 'offering' or something to that effect.

One thing I'll mention while I'm here: "A Foundation thaumatologist (K-0)" I think it'd be a good idea to have a different way of referring to the agent, when they were introduced, I'd mistaken them for another PoI.

by Shaggydredlocks Shaggydredlocks , 12 May 2018 06:00
Zzuxon Zzuxon 12 May 2018 04:41

I love this. The original anomaly is nothing special, but the Olive garden incident takes it in an unexpectedly cool direction, a great example of the sheer craziness of the Foundationverse. Plus, I have a soft spot for the Foundation Department of Thaumatology. +1

by Zzuxon Zzuxon , 12 May 2018 04:41

I'm totally willing to accept the Foundation using esoteric (read: not real) sciences and mysticism in containment reports, but the sheer density of jargon-bordering-on-gibberish in that log was just too much for me to stomach. It doesn't gel with any other depiction of the Foundation I've encountered, and it's not compelling enough in its own right to justify that.

I think the exact phrase I downvoted at was "bodies of the damned".


if your reading this your gay

by Communism will win Communism will win , 12 May 2018 05:22
Mortos Mortos 12 May 2018 10:14

So this is weird and potentially could work, but as others had said the shear amount of jarring terminology used in that transcript is incredibly offputting.

Also, you've classed this as Neutralised but that doesn't actually seem to be the case to me. The bread in containment is still anomalous yes? If it still has anomalous properties, it isn't neutralised. Neutralised doesn't mean that no more of it can be made when some still exists. If that *isn't* the case, you need to be a lot more clear on it.

by Mortos Mortos , 12 May 2018 10:14
TrapYeti TrapYeti 12 May 2018 14:05

The log is written from a confusing perspective, because it combines detailed descriptions of sight, sound, and smell without indicating the sources of the information. Something like: "Log compiled from eye-witness testimony and the restaurant's security camera footage." would provide nice context for the reader.

How did the Foundation thaumatologist get to the scene so quickly (within 4 minutes of the incident's start)? Are the individuals being followed already? They kinda come out of nowhere.

The jargon use is jarring, but others have already pointed that out.

I believe food is offered, not sacrificed. Love that first footnote, by the way.

by TrapYeti TrapYeti , 12 May 2018 14:05
TrapYeti TrapYeti 13 May 2018 21:29

Changed to a +1. Couple of nitpicks:

The following is a log compiled based on the restaurant's CCTV surveillance system
This sentence is going to need a rework, dude. 2 verbs in a row (compiled based). Either use CCTV or surveillance, not both, as they're synonymous.
E.g.:The following log is compiled from the restaurant's CCTV/surveillance camera footage

asks if they require the menu, to which they deny.
Perhaps 'which they decline.'

Sheol needs a tag (e.g.also known as Hades, or Hell.).

by TrapYeti TrapYeti , 13 May 2018 21:29
Lt Flops Lt Flops 14 May 2018 02:43

Thanks for all this feedback, it's not too often I see someone going back to an article they've already read and rated. I've wholeheartedly read through your nitpicks and fixed 'em.


🌱 Plant the seeds of tomorrow in the soil of today ❤️

by Lt Flops Lt Flops , 14 May 2018 02:43
updogg updogg 12 May 2018 18:22

Yikes… this started off hopeful, but that incident report was so bizarre, it almost felt like whiplash. So many esoteric terms that aren't explained and seem at odds with each other were used. In one sentence you have "Type III Tartarean Entity," which I would guess has something to do with Greek Mythology (although the name of this entity sounds more Lovecraftian), but elsewhere you use "geas binding", something I've never heard of and had no way to figure out the meaning of using context clues, and then you use "soul" and "damned," which don't sound scientific in the least. I don't even know what the point of that story was. Were the 2 coat wearers in on this SCP, in cahoots with the anartist responsible, or was it coincidental? Why were they able to order those 2 unusual meals, and why was their particular garlic bread glowing? I don't think any of that was explained, and, again, it came off bizarre more than compelling.

The point is, I'm not sure why you added that story in the first place. If it was merely a non sequitur, well then, I don't think you should have shoehorned it in, because it distracts from the article rather than adds to it. If there's some higher meaning to it that I completely missed, then maybe you should try to make that more clear, because I didn't catch that in the slightest.

The excerpt of dialogue from a garlic bread instance is perfect by the way, keep that the same. The language is just weird enough that it makes you cock your head, without being too hard to understand the meaning of. It's probably my favorite bit of the article, so good job on that.

Overall, I downvoted this, because I didn't like that incident report at all. That's just my opinion on it, and mileage may vary. I'm sure others were fine with it.

by updogg updogg , 12 May 2018 18:22
Changed the scip based on feedback
Lt Flops Lt Flops 12 May 2018 21:53

Thanks, everyone, for your suggestions, I did read through all of them and attempted to take everything into account. As a result, I've updated the scip and hope it manages to read better than it did before.

Things in particular I focused on:

  • The "jarring" tone, which was present because of the use of "technical" terms (e.g., electro-thaumic exorcism device) contrasting with non-clinical terms (souls and "bodies of the damned").
  • The point of view of whoever was compiling the Incident Log. It should be clear now that the incident log was based on CCTV surveillance footage and testimony of those involved. As a result, anything related to smell (such as the geas thing) has been removed (however, "geas", which is a memetic obligation, is still referenced).
  • K-0 is now Field Thaumatology Specialist-७ or FTS-७ (thanks for pointing that one out, Shaggydredlocks Shaggydredlocks ).
  • Miscellaneous plot holes (is that the right phrase to use here?) such as how FTS-७ found K-1 and K-2, where the meals came from, what the deal with ectoplasm is, and why the scip is Neutralized.

Thanks again, guys, I value your feedback and want to write a scip that's enjoyable. However, I do understand if this still isn't up to par.


🌱 Plant the seeds of tomorrow in the soil of today ❤️

by Lt Flops Lt Flops , 12 May 2018 21:53
TL333s TL333s 13 May 2018 13:33

I love "SCP-3464 was a quantity of garlic bread", but by the time I get down to

K-2 summons Adybbuk, an incorporeal Type-III Tartarean entity.

you lose me. This is way too much "Foundation using anomalies to contain anomalies". Even if they know the name of such an entity, they're not going to call it by name when they have much less esoteric tech jargon to use. Call it headcanon, but I'm never going to be on board with the Foundation being on board with magic.

Also, I'm still not sure how/why it's neutralized.

by TL333s TL333s , 13 May 2018 13:33
TrapYeti TrapYeti 13 May 2018 21:43

K-1 & K-2 aren't foundation personnel- they take this opportunity to summon an evil entity. FTS-७ tries to stop them.
Presumably they refer to the entity by name because it has significance- other "Type-III Tartareans" may be different. The containment explains the Neutralised status.

I'm all for scientific accuracy, but there's nothing wrong with entertaining the notion of a canon where more mystical concepts are explored. Variety is the spice of life, and all that.

by TrapYeti TrapYeti , 13 May 2018 21:43
TL333s TL333s 13 May 2018 21:50

Knowing the entity by name means the Foundation has some kind of familiarity with demons. They should not. Demons are anomalous entities in and of themselves, and should be classified and referred to as such. It's the same kind of thing as calling a humanoid anomaly by its first name. The Foundation should never have that kind of understanding of anomalies because they purposefully distance themselves from them, when they aren't outright approaching them from the wrong angle because that's what they do.

A Foundation that employs magic is just another GoI.

by TL333s TL333s , 13 May 2018 21:50
Accelerando Accelerando 14 May 2018 07:13

Essentially agreeing with many of the comments above me, even after the article has been revised. The amount of unorthodox terms and magical elements here makes me imagine I'm reading a different Foundation altogether. I know it's minor, but even just treating ectoplasm as a serious term breaks my immersion quickly.

by Accelerando Accelerando , 14 May 2018 07:13
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page revision: 2, last edited: 15 Jan 2023 15:06
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