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i would like to take issue with this small part of the debate: <snippet> > We should start a completely different debate. How much freedom _are_ we > willing to give up for safety? _Who_ is willing to give up such freedoms, and .. </snippet> "those willing to give up freedom for security deserve and will get neither" (after ben. franklin) by the way, the dutchies did very well indeed. they caught 40 000 terrorists in the first year that identification was compulsory in the netherlands. ten percent of these id-less terrorists were children. well done .nl! do keep up the good work. chris # distributed via <nettime>: no commercial use without permission # <nettime> is a moderated mailing list for net criticism, # collaborative text filtering and cultural politics of the nets # more info: majordomo@bbs.thing.net and "info nettime-l" in the msg body # archive: http://www.nettime.org contact: nettime@bbs.thing.net