HanDonotob wrote: ↑

Tue Nov 11, 2025 2:39 pm

Rather mixed reactions till now, from outright negative (will not sell) to negative (just buy an earlier model) to less negative (don't bother, ship has sailed). Some half positives.

Depending on your point of view, those may not be negatives. For example, if a product is unlikely to sell in quantities that make back development cost, it's not negative from the company's perspective to say that it's not a good product. It's just good commercial sense.

HanDonotob wrote: ↑

Tue Nov 11, 2025 2:39 pm

I forgot to mention the replacing of all the current connectors with just 2 USB-C. After all, they are just connectors and USB-C with a suitable (RPI) dock can provide in just about any (in and out) connection need. No more complaining of micro/mini connectors on more sides than one, because now all connectors follow a future proof common standard and are easily fitted on one side. Any USB-C dock could jump in, but it's also a chance for RPL or any 3rd party to come up with a tailor made Pi dock. Looking forward to it.

Putting everything on USB would kill a lot of market. I don't have a USB monitor for example, so I would need a docking station just to use the device. In addition the current SoC cannot do video over USB, so its quite a change given how ubiquitous HDMI is. As USB-C becomes more popular then perhaps, but that would be some years away. You cannot sell a future proof a device if it doesn't work in the present.

Software guy, working in the applications team.

HanDonotob wrote: ↑

Tue Nov 11, 2025 2:39 pm

I forgot to mention the replacing of all the current connectors with just 2 USB-C. After all, they are just connectors and USB-C with a suitable (RPI) dock can provide in just about any (in and out) connection need. No more complaining of micro/mini connectors

Yes, this is one example where the age and/or cost of components shows. My laptop has 3 usb-c/thunderbolt connectors and I can plug anything into anything (video, power, usb devices, thunderbolt dock), this is so convenient. But the laptop was over 10x price of the Pi.

I think replacing all connectors by just two is definitely not enough as now you have 2+2 usb2/3 + 2x hdmi + power, but I fear the cost and complexity of routing anything to anything (power, video) is high, so the most conservative would be to simply replace 2x microhdmi by 2x usb-c with dp alt mode and keeping the one for power too. SO 3 usb-c in total and rest possibly the same. Or maybe just 2 usb-c so one would take power if you need only one display (typical) or would need extra hardware for both power and video over same connector.

jamesh wrote: ↑

Tue Nov 11, 2025 3:11 pm

I don't have a USB monitor for example, so I would need a docking station just to use the device.

There are cheap passive adapters/cables from usb-c to hdmi or displayport just like the micro/mini/full hdmi adapters/cables. The price is about the same, the only difference for user is having usb-c male instead of microhdmi on one end of that thing. Then there are those cheap small usb3 hubs with some usb-a, one usb-c for power in and one hdmi. And only if you need more you may get docking station that will cost a bit more.

fanoush wrote: ↑

Tue Nov 11, 2025 3:28 pm

jamesh wrote: ↑

Tue Nov 11, 2025 3:11 pm

I don't have a USB monitor for example, so I would need a docking station just to use the device.

There are cheap passive adapters/cables from usb-c to hdmi or displayport just like the micro/mini/full hdmi adapters/cables. The price is about the same, the only difference for user is having usb-c male instead of microhdmi on one end of that thing. Then there are those cheap small usb3 hubs with some usb-a, one usb-c for power in and one hdmi. And only if you need more you may get docking station that will cost a bit more.

Pi's really need to work out of the box without having to buy too much extra stuff. I would not like to receive a device where it could not connect directly to my HDMI monitor without extra purchases.

Software guy, working in the applications team.

There is no difference, instead of micro to full hdmi cable you would use usb-c to full hdmi cable.

fanoush wrote: ↑

Tue Nov 11, 2025 3:28 pm

There are cheap passive adapters/cables from usb-c to hdmi or displayport

Cheap, yes. Depending on location and local taxes.

But passive? No. At least not for HDMI. There was an HDMI alt mode for USB C but AIUI it was rarely supported and is now deprecated. Unlike DVI, DP is not directly compatible with HDMI so active conversion is needed.

Knowledge, skills, & experience have value. If you expect to profit from someone's you should expect to pay for them.

All advice given is based on my experience. it worked for me, it may not work for you.
Need help? https://github.com/thagrol/Guides

I think the only active one is when you need to convert from hdmi to displayport. Will double check, I have passive usb-c to displayport female and passive displayport male to hdmi female. both work when used separately (and both were 1ドル-2 items on aliexpress).

jamesh wrote: ↑

Tue Nov 11, 2025 3:11 pm

I don't have a USB monitor for example, so I would need a docking station just to use the device.

Nothing extra needed, just replace the Pi power brick with the Pi power dock.

fanoush wrote: ↑

Tue Nov 11, 2025 5:22 pm

Will double check, I have passive usb-c to displayport female and passive displayport male to hdmi female. both work when used separately (and both were 1ドル-2 items on aliexpress).

OK, I stand corrected. This particular combination does not work with two diferrent laptops and both my monitor and my TV. I do not have direct usb-c to hdmi cable or even cheap adapter like this https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005005888749791.html to take apart so no proof it is fully passive. And the price of that adapter does not prove anything too since the hdmi to vga or displayport to vga adapters are about 2ドル too and they are indeed active.

PDM1950 wrote: ↑

Tue Nov 11, 2025 11:21 am

Working it hard - but only as a desktop user - I heard the Pi5 fan sometimes. Less when I unclipped the lid and left it loose. Hardly ever with the case sat on the HDMI cable to increase the air gap underneath. I'll get round to some sticky feet sometime.

Easiest way to get some space under the Pi5 would be to use some short stand-offs instead of screws when bolting the Pi into the case.

Going off the picture on https://www.raspberrypi.com/for-home/ (and all its predecessors I think) a desktop computer shopper might think it was something they are supposed to use with the lid off. Who else sells a home computer by showing it's insides?

Lots of the more "upscale" (e.g. gamer) PCs feature side windows showing off the guts, and then frequently add things like lighted fans.

Hint - some people may prefer the grey case for the Pi5, possibly the same ones who don't see the need for coloured lights on a keyboard.

I like the black/grey cases because I prefer "cool" (as opposed to warm, like reds and yellows) colors. This is especially true since I'm in permanent mourning for my late wife. For those Pis used for the convention at which I run Convention Registration, I use white/red cases because those better fit the conventions color scheme. To be fair, I also have no use for fancy lighting in keyboards.

I guess if the main market is industrial and hobbyist the home computer user is not a focus for product design. My plea would be not to lose focus on keeping the desktop clean and friendly. Dropping the main menu editor as standard in trixie seems a step backward in that respect.

That's a matter of software, where choices and customization are far easier to implement.

HanDonotob wrote: ↑

Tue Nov 11, 2025 2:39 pm

I forgot to mention the replacing of all the current connectors with just 2 USB-C. After all, they are just connectors and USB-C with a suitable (RPI) dock can provide in just about any (in and out) connection need. No more complaining of micro/mini connectors on more sides than one, because now all connectors follow a future proof common standard and are easily fitted on one side. Any USB-C dock could jump in, but it's also a chance for RPL or any 3rd party to come up with a tailor made Pi dock. Looking forward to it.

I'm going for a flat "NO" to that. To connect keyboard, mouse/trackball, monitor and wired network, why should I need to buy a docking station? Right now, in the room I'm sitting in, there are 5 Pis running 24/7. When I set up ConReg at the convention where I run that, there are eight Pis being run, and that doesn't count the seven "public access" (to the con web site) stations that are each a Pi-400 plus RPT 15.6" monitor.

Your proposal would mean buying a minimum of *ten* "docking stations".

HanDonotob wrote: ↑

Tue Nov 11, 2025 5:43 pm

jamesh wrote: ↑

Tue Nov 11, 2025 3:11 pm

I don't have a USB monitor for example, so I would need a docking station just to use the device.

Nothing extra needed, just replace the Pi power brick with the Pi power dock.

How about we put the extra ports from the power dock onto the Pi itself?! Then we'd just need a simple PSU.

Genius!

Oh no, not again.

W. H. Heydt wrote: ↑
Your proposal would mean buying a minimum of *ten* "docking stations".

Not if there were a switch/dock/kvm type device that could support multiple Pis.

PDM1950 wrote: ↑

Tue Nov 11, 2025 11:21 am

...
Hint - some people may prefer the grey case for the Pi5, possibly the same ones who don't see the need for coloured lights on a keyboard.
...

The two groups are not the same. I very much like the cheerful Raspberry Red livery, and one reason for NOT buying a Pi500/500+ is the boring case colour. That's in addition to the fact that I don't really need one, because my collection of Pi SBCs is severely under-utilised at present. On the other hand, in most use cases, I consider flashy keyboard lights a waste and a distraction from the purpose of the kit, though it's probably a fair addition for a general purpose Pi -- at least it's another "thing" to target when learning to code.

And, for the record, lights inside PC cases are an absolute waste of time and energy, and should be abolished. :evil:

Location: 345th cell on the right of the 210th row of L2 cache

andrew_pi wrote: ↑

Tue Nov 11, 2025 8:56 pm

W. H. Heydt wrote: ↑
Your proposal would mean buying a minimum of *ten* "docking stations".

Not if there were a switch/dock/kvm type device that could support multiple Pis.

That would probably require all the Pis to be in close proximity to each other, which is not my general use case. So your "solution" would be solving one--potential--problem by creating another.

davidcoton wrote: ↑

Tue Nov 11, 2025 10:05 pm

And, for the record, lights inside PC cases are an absolute waste of time and energy, and should be abolished. :evil:

Fully agree. And what's more, by including the "window" to see them, it eliminates any chance that the case will be a proper Faraday Cage.

All of that said, the use of the keyboard lights in place of dedicated power and shift-lock LEDs is a decent choice, so no issues about *that*. If the RPT were to market a FULL keyboard (that is, one includes the numeric keypad), Num Lock could be done the same way.

it eliminates any chance that the case will be a proper Faraday Cage

Those all metal cage cases block the WiFi. My one metal case is unused as it reduces the WiFi range down to a few millimetres. Those metal cases with plastic windows make the WiFi directional like the beams shooting out of a black hole. Lets get back to natural wood. Huon Pine cases. The lustre of wood beats any LED display.

what would be nice:
a built-in simple sound generator with a software API like Arduinos have (feat. a tone() function, which takes (frequency, duration) as arguments, output by GPIO pin or optional via HDMI or sound plug)

peterlite wrote: ↑

Tue Nov 11, 2025 10:59 pm

it eliminates any chance that the case will be a proper Faraday Cage

Those all metal cage cases block the WiFi. My one metal case is unused as it reduces the WiFi range down to a few millimetres.

Which is why WiFI cards and modern motherboards with WiFi built in have external antennas.

Knowledge, skills, & experience have value. If you expect to profit from someone's you should expect to pay for them.

All advice given is based on my experience. it worked for me, it may not work for you.
Need help? https://github.com/thagrol/Guides

W. H. Heydt wrote: ↑

Tue Nov 11, 2025 10:26 pm

andrew_pi wrote: ↑

Tue Nov 11, 2025 8:56 pm

W. H. Heydt wrote: ↑
Your proposal would mean buying a minimum of *ten* "docking stations".

Not if there were a switch/dock/kvm type device that could support multiple Pis.

That would probably require all the Pis to be in close proximity to each other, which is not my general use case. So your "solution" would be solving one--potential--problem by creating another.

Ahh, I didn't realise this was about your personal requirements.

andrew_pi wrote: ↑

Wed Nov 12, 2025 9:10 am

W. H. Heydt wrote: ↑

Tue Nov 11, 2025 10:26 pm

andrew_pi wrote: ↑

Tue Nov 11, 2025 8:56 pm

Not if there were a switch/dock/kvm type device that could support multiple Pis.

That would probably require all the Pis to be in close proximity to each other, which is not my general use case. So your "solution" would be solving one--potential--problem by creating another.

Ahh, I didn't realise this was about your personal requirements.

It's not, but examples to show why something may not be the best idea are useful, and this is certainly not a unique use case. If we sold a Pi that needed a dock to be useful for most users, then we would not sell very many at all. For example, not having HDMI on board would certainly come under that category. Having only USB-C would also be a problem, but at least you can buy passive adapters rather than more expensive docks, but it's still an extra purchase so people can use their Pi with their existing equipment.

And dropping down from 4 USB ports to fewer might annoy people if they need a dock to bring that functionality back.

Software guy, working in the applications team.

W. H. Heydt wrote: ↑

Tue Nov 11, 2025 10:30 pm

All of that said, the use of the keyboard lights in place of dedicated power and shift-lock LEDs is a decent choice, so no issues about *that*.

I disagree. Turning what is often a 3 mm LED, which isn't usually distracting, to a 1 cm x 1cm light-up key which is, is not something I would be happy with.

If it were just light-up wording on the key I could probably live with it, but most RGB keys are raised and the LED illumination spills beyond the key.

I dislike the aesthetics of RGB keys raised above the keyboard body to start with but accept that's personal taste. All the RGB keyboards I have retain the separate 3mm LED so the RGB functionality can be turned off completely.

jamesh wrote: ↑

Wed Nov 12, 2025 9:19 am

And dropping down from 4 USB ports to fewer might annoy people if they need a dock to bring that functionality back.

It certainly would! :) In fact, I sometimes need more.... :mrgreen:

I'd like to have a USB-C splitter cable to run 2x RPi from just one PSU, just not sure if the PSU would cope, especially if using USB power to the 2x RPi monitors. ;)

Maybe, also, a proper KVM..... 8-)

The problem with a splitter is it contravenes the USB spec, and would completely confuse the USB PD system.

Software guy, working in the applications team.

KeithMck wrote: ↑

Wed Nov 12, 2025 10:50 am

I'd like to have a USB-C splitter cable to run 2x RPi from just one PSU, just not sure if the PSU would cope, especially if using USB power to the 2x RPi monitors. ;)

Wouldn't a powered hub actually be tidier, as each cable could be chosen to be the correct length. And a good hub (not the nasty cheap ones) might do the PD properly !

Always interested in innovative audio startups needing help and investment. Look for InPoSe Ltd or Future Horizons on LinkedIn to find me (same avatar photograph)

jamesh wrote: ↑

Wed Nov 12, 2025 11:23 am

The problem with a splitter is it contravenes the USB spec, and would completely confuse the USB PD system.

Ah, OK, fair enough.... 8-)