thagrol wrote: ↑

Mon Nov 03, 2025 3:52 pm

RaTTuS wrote: ↑

Mon Nov 03, 2025 8:43 am

What I'd like to see is a USB Powered
4 port 2.5G ethernet switch +1 10G [in an ideal world] ,
so you could plug it in and be connected to a switch via the USB an also have the option to connect other things at the desk :D

May I suggest a modification.

Since no Pi currently has 2.5Gb ethernet on board why not make the USB C port a 2.5Gb ethernet adapter on one of the switch ports? 3 x 2.5Gb RJ45, I x USB C 2.5Gb ethernet power and data port, 1 x 10Gb uplink port.

Would be useful for a lot more devices than Pi. All those laptops and tablets with USB C and WiFi but no ethernet.

At the other end of the spectrum Scratchy wants a Pi computer built into a mouse--it's a mouse computer rather than a keyboard computer. Power is delivered through the video cable, there is no GPIO but only one ultra-flexible video cable between the mouse and a television.

In my opinion those kittens are overly focused on computer mice and need to do something about the ones living under the fence.

ejolson wrote: ↑

Mon Nov 03, 2025 7:15 pm

thagrol wrote: ↑

Mon Nov 03, 2025 3:52 pm

RaTTuS wrote: ↑

Mon Nov 03, 2025 8:43 am

What I'd like to see is a USB Powered
4 port 2.5G ethernet switch +1 10G [in an ideal world] ,
so you could plug it in and be connected to a switch via the USB an also have the option to connect other things at the desk :D

May I suggest a modification.

Since no Pi currently has 2.5Gb ethernet on board why not make the USB C port a 2.5Gb ethernet adapter on one of the switch ports? 3 x 2.5Gb RJ45, I x USB C 2.5Gb ethernet power and data port, 1 x 10Gb uplink port.

Would be useful for a lot more devices than Pi. All those laptops and tablets with USB C and WiFi but no ethernet.

At the other end of the spectrum Scratchy wants a Pi computer built into a mouse--it's a mouse computer rather than a keyboard computer. Power is delivered through the video cable, there is no GPIO but only one ultra-flexible video cable between the mouse and a television.

In my opinion those kittens are overly focused on computer mice and need to do something about the ones living under the fence.

You mean, like this?
https://hackaday.com/2024/01/25/buildin ... -computer/

Oh no, not again.

RaTTuS wrote: ↑

Mon Nov 03, 2025 8:43 am

What I'd like to see is a USB Powered
4 port 2.5G ethernet switch +1 10G [in an ideal world] ,
so you could plug it in and be connected to a switch via the USB an also have the option to connect other things at the desk :D

Has 2.5GbE really gone "main stream" yet? I expect that, in the fullness of time, Pis will get 2.5GbE ports, but not for some time yet...perhaps in 5 years or so. So far as I know, at the moment, SOHO switches at that speed are...rare...to say the least. When your average electronics store starts listing 5-port and 8-port 2.5GbE switches in the 50ドル to 100ドル range, then it will be about the right time for Pis to get a port that fast. (And just for reference, the last time I bought a 1GbE 16-port switch, it cost about 110ドル. Show me a comparable 2.5GbE switch for anywhere near that and *then* talk about Pis going 2.5GbE.)

thagrol wrote: ↑

Mon Nov 03, 2025 3:52 pm

May I suggest a modification.

Since no Pi currently has 2.5Gb ethernet on board why not make the USB C port a 2.5Gb ethernet adapter on one of the switch ports? 3 x 2.5Gb RJ45, I x USB C 2.5Gb ethernet power and data port, 1 x 10Gb uplink port.

Would be useful for a lot more devices than Pi. All those laptops and tablets with USB C and WiFi but no ethernet.

yes - partially what I was thinking , :D

I know 2.5G is not mainstream yet , but I do have 2.5G switches around the house [with 10G uplinks to switch in boiler room ]
when you can get 20ドル 2.5G switches it sort of makes sense to use those

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RaTTuS wrote: ↑

Tue Nov 04, 2025 12:10 pm

when you can get 20ドル 2.5G switches it sort of makes sense to use those

You can? Cheapest I've found are in the 80ドル+ range.

As I currently only have one 2.5Gb capable PC I went with a USB 3 2.5Gb adapter on my Pi based NAS (point to point link to PC) bridged with the on board ethernet. Fast connection between PC and NAS, normal speeds to rest of LAN and internet. Though with a small amount of additional latency.

Knowledge, skills, & experience have value. If you expect to profit from someone's you should expect to pay for them.

All advice given is based on my experience. it worked for me, it may not work for you.
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thagrol wrote: ↑

Tue Nov 04, 2025 1:43 pm

RaTTuS wrote: ↑

Tue Nov 04, 2025 12:10 pm

when you can get 20ドル 2.5G switches it sort of makes sense to use those

You can? Cheapest I've found are in the 80ドル+ range.

As I currently only have one 2.5Gb capable PC I went with a USB 3 2.5Gb adapter on my Pi based NAS (point to point link to PC) bridged with the on board ethernet. Fast connection between PC and NAS, normal speeds to rest of LAN and internet. Though with a small amount of additional latency.

I bought this from Amazon a while back - seems to work fine https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B0DJLNTBVF? ... asin_title
Currently 49,ドル but often on offer at 39ドル

--
Chris

cct wrote: ↑

Tue Nov 04, 2025 2:09 pm

thagrol wrote: ↑

Tue Nov 04, 2025 1:43 pm

RaTTuS wrote: ↑

Tue Nov 04, 2025 12:10 pm

when you can get 20ドル 2.5G switches it sort of makes sense to use those

You can? Cheapest I've found are in the 80ドル+ range.

As I currently only have one 2.5Gb capable PC I went with a USB 3 2.5Gb adapter on my Pi based NAS (point to point link to PC) bridged with the on board ethernet. Fast connection between PC and NAS, normal speeds to rest of LAN and internet. Though with a small amount of additional latency.

I bought this from Amazon a while back - seems to work fine https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B0DJLNTBVF? ... asin_title
Currently 49,ドル but often on offer at 39ドル

Got to love the comparison chart they made, other than 1 extra ethernet port, it lacks the fibre ports.

Then claiming because it doesn't have them it better in every way. Yet the other products can also do everything it says it benefits from.

bensimmo wrote: ↑

Tue Nov 04, 2025 6:06 pm

cct wrote: ↑

Tue Nov 04, 2025 2:09 pm

thagrol wrote: ↑

Tue Nov 04, 2025 1:43 pm

You can? Cheapest I've found are in the 80ドル+ range.

As I currently only have one 2.5Gb capable PC I went with a USB 3 2.5Gb adapter on my Pi based NAS (point to point link to PC) bridged with the on board ethernet. Fast connection between PC and NAS, normal speeds to rest of LAN and internet. Though with a small amount of additional latency.

I bought this from Amazon a while back - seems to work fine https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B0DJLNTBVF? ... asin_title
Currently 49,ドル but often on offer at 39ドル

Got to love the comparison chart they made, other than 1 extra ethernet port, it lacks the fibre ports.

Then claiming because it doesn't have them it better in every way. Yet the other products can also do everything it says it benefits from.

I wasn't interested in fibre ports, I just wanted the 2.5Gb switch - this a home network!

There are currently two items with fibre ports on offer at 39ドル

Chris

--
Chris

It wasn't a out the fibre. Look at the chart and how they criticise the other part even if they can do exactly the same just with on less ethernet port.
The fibre are irrelevant in their comparison.


So anyway what colour do you want the Pi 2.5Gbit/10Gbit/USB-C gen4 router/switch/hub/ap dongle thing?

bensimmo wrote: ↑

Wed Nov 05, 2025 12:48 pm

So anyway what colour do you want the Pi 2.5Gbit/10Gbit/USB-C gen4 router/switch/hub/ap dongle thing?

Raspberry :D

Knowledge, skills, & experience have value. If you expect to profit from someone's you should expect to pay for them.

All advice given is based on my experience. it worked for me, it may not work for you.
Need help? https://github.com/thagrol/Guides

Yes, I know it's against the trend of more and faster, but I would like going retro to the as complete as possible computer on a board. Back to a modest SBC (not as fast as a Pi5, but faster than a Pi4, and with 8GB RAM for comfortable desktop use) with embedded fast (UFS) storage and no more PCIe. Preferably as part of a SOC with CPU, GPU, RAM and NPU combined.

Why? In the end it's probably a wish for a SBC really in sync with each individual part and a wish to avoid having to get used to products that rely on heavily overqualified NVME for storage. Just because it's now possible to connect storage via PCIe, it has become common practice to do so, but it really isn't a natural fit. And honestly, who likes the look of these HAT's.

Responding to the relentless push for faster and more must be a good thing, but a Pi5 with a fan on top shouldn't be necessary, even when used to its full potential. The same for the 5.1V|5A power need. It's peculiar and off common market specs, causing so many fora posts it must be a full-time job to answer these. The latest rpi500+ with its 16GB RAM and 200ドル price tag is another example of the giving in to faster and more.

It made me a bit worried as to its potential use. Where it's nicely weird, it is also an extremely niche product as Linux desktop, even with Ubuntu installed instead of RPI OS. I can't see it accepted by business as a trade-in for out-of support win10 machines or even as virtual desktop for off-site apps. And think of the noise of these mechanical keyboards.

The last products that got me genuinely excited were the 15 inch monitor and the Pi5 bumper. A modest SBC with regular power needs, quiet, not needing a fan, with eUFS and NPU inside would do so too, an accompanying small UPS (not in HAT format though, but as an USB-C connected device) would make it even more awesome. I guess quite a lot would consider all this a step back in development, but I see it as a step forward back to basics.

HanDonotob wrote: ↑

Mon Nov 10, 2025 8:11 pm

Yes, I know it's against the trend of more and faster, but I would like going retro to the as complete as possible computer on a board. Back to a modest SBC (not as fast as a Pi5, but faster than a Pi4, and with 8GB RAM for comfortable desktop use) with embedded fast (UFS) storage and no more PCIe. Preferably as part of a SOC with CPU, GPU, RAM and NPU combined.

One could see a product development that forked into two paths. One continuously getting faster, with more RAM, and more capable. The other looking to limiting itself such that no fan is required, even under full load...basically an extension of the Pi2B (which is really now a Pi3B+ without the on-board WiFi and BT support).

Remember also that the ongoing trend is to using smaller and smaller process nodes. That makes possible an expanding trade-off between speed and power requirements.

As it is, you can always underclock a Pi5 (or any Pi) to reduce power requirements and the associated heat that has to be dissipated.

Why? In the end it's probably a wish for a SBC really in sync with each individual part and a wish to avoid having to get used to products that rely on heavily overqualified NVME for storage. Just because it's now possible to connect storage via PCIe, it has become common practice to do so, but it really isn't a natural fit. And honestly, who likes the look of these HAT's.

yes, there does need to be a balance among the various capabilities. That's why I welcomed the addition of USB 3.0. The Pis were getting fast enough that USB 2 was a bottleneck for moving data. The same is true of the SD interface. It's gotten faster, but not as rapidly as the CPU speeds and memory footprint have. There is (now) a solution if you don't like looking at the M.2 HAT+. You can use the newer "compact" M.2 adapter and hide it inside the official case. (There was, for a while, a third party adapter--the Pineboard Nano--that could also allow the case lid to put in place...and unlike the RPT compact M.2 adapter, it was compatible with the active cooler.)

Also bear in mind that there are now multiple other uses for the PCIe lane and M.2 adapter, such as the AI accellerator.

Responding to the relentless push for faster and more must be a good thing, but a Pi5 with a fan on top shouldn't be necessary, even when used to its full potential. The same for the 5.1V|5A power need. It's peculiar and off common market specs, causing so many fora posts it must be a full-time job to answer these. The latest rpi500+ with its 16GB RAM and 200ドル price tag is another example of the giving in to faster and more.

There are always those that want each iteration to be faster and bigger than the current generation. As noted above, you can always underclock to reduce the need for cooling.

It made me a bit worried as to its potential use. Where it's nicely weird, it is also an extremely niche product as Linux desktop, even with Ubuntu installed instead of RPI OS. I can't see it accepted by business as a trade-in for out-of support win10 machines or even as virtual desktop for off-site apps. And think of the noise of these mechanical keyboards.

De gustibus non disputandum est. I *love* the Pi-500+ keyboard. I want to see that keyboard also sold as a stand-alone keyboard, and even go to the point of adding a numeric keypad. If that last were launched as a product, I'd buy at least 6 of them as fast as I could afford them.

As for Ubuntu... I tried it several years ago. I find it to be excessively "hand holding". That's great for beginners, but it got in my way in irritating ways.

The last products that got me genuinely excited were the 15 inch monitor and the Pi5 bumper. A modest SBC with regular power needs, quiet, not needing a fan, with eUFS and NPU inside would do so too, an accompanying small UPS (not in HAT format though, but as an USB-C connected device) would make it even more awesome. I guess quite a lot would consider all this a step back in development, but I see it as a step forward back to basics.

I like the 15.6" monitors so much that I have 12 of them.

I agree that an external UPS, even if it could only power one device, and that through a USB-C PD connection would be a very nice product. I would like to see it with a full load (27W, or whatever future Pis need) for at least one hour, so around 30Wh capacity. Only way to keep the size and weight down (given what's on the market now) would be a Lithium chemistry. To be fair, by the time something like that could be brought to market, it might be reasonable to base it on a Sodium Ion chemistry, thus cutting the price at the expense of a modest increase in size and weight. An option that would be good with such a device (which you can get with at least some commercial UPS's) would be an add-on extended battery capacity.

HanDonotob wrote: ↑

Mon Nov 10, 2025 8:11 pm

Yes, I know it's against the trend of more and faster, but I would like going retro to the as complete as possible computer on a board. Back to a modest SBC (not as fast as a Pi5, but faster than a Pi4, and with 8GB RAM for comfortable desktop use) with embedded fast (UFS) storage and no more PCIe. Preferably as part of a SOC with CPU, GPU, RAM and NPU combined.

So a Pi4.5B? Would the development cost ever be recouped?

Industrial users will but the model they need. Hobbyists new to Pi will buy the latest and greatest. Experienced hobbyist users will do what industrial users do and buy the model appropriate for the project.

Why? In the end it's probably a wish for a SBC really in sync with each individual part and a wish to avoid having to get used to products that rely on heavily overqualified NVME for storage. Just because it's now possible to connect storage via PCIe, it has become common practice to do so, but it really isn't a natural fit. And honestly, who likes the look of these HAT's.

I think the demand for NVMe is coming from the PC and console users. And a few experienced Pi users who understand what they're buying into and the restrictions.

That and people with more money than sense.

Remember too, the PCIe lane on a Pi5 can be used for many, many things other than an NPU and NVMe. Sure you need something to convert from the FPC cable to a normal PCIe slot but that's not hard to get.

Knowledge, skills, & experience have value. If you expect to profit from someone's you should expect to pay for them.

All advice given is based on my experience. it worked for me, it may not work for you.
Need help? https://github.com/thagrol/Guides

heat that has to be dissipated

Just develop a better passive heatsink. There are some big non fan heatsiinks with one problem, blocked WiFi. There are easy ways to solve that problem as there are giant desktop passive heatsinks showing all the solutions.

I use good (and cheap) small copper heatsinks for the Pi 5 with no fan and no blocked WiFi. They could be taller and still fit under the PCIe HAT. If the official case was modified slightly, you would have good natural air flow.

The heatsink in the Pi 500/500+ shows another way to disperse the heat. I have not tested the 500 WiFi.

There are calls for the Pi 4 and Pi 5 with external antenna. That would let us use the existing big metal heatsinks without fans. If MIMO, we could easily replace the stupid limited off the shelf routers.

thagrol wrote: ↑

Mon Nov 10, 2025 10:30 pm

Remember too, the PCIe lane on a Pi5 can be used for many, many things other than an NPU and NVMe. Sure you need something to convert from the FPC cable to a normal PCIe slot but that's not hard to get.

The kitten named Scratchy meowed, the moment the PCIe connector is connected the Pi ceases to be an SBC and turns into an MBC. Apparently the market niche for multi-board computers vanished in 1974 when large-scale integration allowed the CPU of a PDP-8 to fit on a single circuit board.

Personally, I think a Raspberry Pi 5 with hat fits in the same market niche formerly occupied by the Nova series manufactured by Data General.

HanDonotob wrote: ↑

Mon Nov 10, 2025 8:11 pm

with embedded fast (UFS) storage and no more PCIe.
...
Just because it's now possible to connect storage via PCIe, it has become common practice to do so, but it really isn't a natural fit. And honestly, who likes the look of these HAT's.

There was some guy advocating UFS few months ago too. I searched history and it was you :-) And you already got some answers here.
PCIe _is_ natural fit. And it is unrelated to how HATs look.
And BTW the RP1 chip on the board is also connected via PCIe.
Adding some UFS to PCIE bridge would only add costs for no benefit.

see also https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005009695798456.html
and some appear on Amazon around 30ドル ... https://www.amazon.co.uk/Umanaged-Ether ... N2QN7?th=1

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Can I remind everyone that all previous models (bar a couple) are STILL available. If you don't want the latest and greatest, get last years or the year before's model.

Pi4.5? Nope, we'd sell one.

Software guy, working in the applications team.

jamesh wrote: ↑

Tue Nov 11, 2025 10:44 am

Can I remind everyone that all previous models (bar a couple) are STILL available. If you don't want the latest and greatest, get last years or the year before's model.

Pi4.5? Nope, we'd sell one.

Nah, there's at least a dozen people on here who collect one of everything you make :D

Always interested in innovative audio startups needing help and investment. Look for InPoSe Ltd or Future Horizons on LinkedIn to find me (same avatar photograph)

HanDonotob wrote: ↑

Mon Nov 10, 2025 8:11 pm

Responding to the relentless push for faster and more must be a good thing, but a Pi5 with a fan on top shouldn't be necessary, even when used to its full potential.

Raspberry PI are, as I see it, simply responding to what the majority market wants; faster than what they previously produced. That the Pi 5 is two to three times faster than a 4B for just 5ドル more is the most compelling reason I'd buy one. Faster usually means hotter and higher power needs so those are things one just has to accept.

From what I have heard the Pi 5 works well enough using an Active Cooler without the fan connected. That's what I would opt for, fanless and silent while retaining the ability to connect the fan if I found I needed to.

HanDonotob wrote: ↑

Mon Nov 10, 2025 8:11 pm

The same for the 5.1V|5A power need. It's peculiar and off common market specs, causing so many fora posts it must be a full-time job to answer these.

It's a PITA but it seems it would be hard to find anything cheaper or better than the official PSU if they had used a more common power profile.

HanDonotob wrote: ↑

Mon Nov 10, 2025 8:11 pm

The latest rpi500+ with its 16GB RAM and 200ドル price tag is another example of the giving in to faster and more.

I don't understand that given the stance was "no one really needs 16GB" when 16GB wasn't available, and I agreed with that. But then I don't think anyone needs RGB keyboards. And I still can't understand why they fitted the smallest NVMe to their top of the range 16GB product. But I am not in the audience for such a product anyway.

There is quite a jump in cost for makers and hobbyists going from a Pi 4B to Pi 5, PI 400 to 500 or 500+, but everyone has the choice of which to buy and use. There has never been a Pi which has perfectly fitted what I'd like and I accept there probably never will be.

I have the active cooler on my desk with an NVME HAT over the top, in a Pi case with no top. The fan is plugged in. I'm not sure I have ever heard the fan except at startup.

Software guy, working in the applications team.

Working it hard - but only as a desktop user - I heard the Pi5 fan sometimes. Less when I unclipped the lid and left it loose. Hardly ever with the case sat on the HDMI cable to increase the air gap underneath. I'll get round to some sticky feet sometime.

Going off the picture on https://www.raspberrypi.com/for-home/ (and all its predecessors I think) a desktop computer shopper might think it was something they are supposed to use with the lid off. Who else sells a home computer by showing it's insides?

Hint - some people may prefer the grey case for the Pi5, possibly the same ones who don't see the need for coloured lights on a keyboard.

I guess if the main market is industrial and hobbyist the home computer user is not a focus for product design. My plea would be not to lose focus on keeping the desktop clean and friendly. Dropping the main menu editor as standard in trixie seems a step backward in that respect.

Rant time: I think people obsess over Pi5 cooling way too much. Running it without a cooler isn't going to hurt it, and even without any cooling it's still vastly faster than Pi4. Sure, if you really want/need to get the most out of it then sustained workloads will go a bit faster with cooling, but it's not the totally essential thing people seem to think it is. The pi5 I use for most of my day-to-day work (including some compiling) doesn't have a cooler, and nor do half the Pi5s I see people using around the office.

The Pi5 is only just fast enough for me as a desktop. I don't expect workstation class graphics but, for example, the GIMP UI is sluggish (? due to xwayland ?). Almost forty years ago Wordstar on an IBM PC could keep up with a typist. The requirement to keep up with the user still stands.

A selling point for the compact M.2 HAT was that it allowed a drive faster than the uSD. Offering faster implies that slower due to throttling is bad for some users.

So I like the standard case cooler with better ventilation. How much do feet a few mm higher cost?

Rather mixed reactions till now, from outright negative (will not sell) to negative (just buy an earlier model) to less negative (don't bother, ship has sailed). Some half positives.

I forgot to mention the replacing of all the current connectors with just 2 USB-C. After all, they are just connectors and USB-C with a suitable (RPI) dock can provide in just about any (in and out) connection need. No more complaining of micro/mini connectors on more sides than one, because now all connectors follow a future proof common standard and are easily fitted on one side. Any USB-C dock could jump in, but it's also a chance for RPL or any 3rd party to come up with a tailor made Pi dock. Looking forward to it.

Coming back to the wish for a well balanced product.. looks aren't all that make me think of a product to be beautiful. There's also the thoughtful architecture, the quiet excellence in accompanying software, the functional in format. I'm simply afraid the balance of all parts working as a whole may be getting a bit lost if the performance aspect gets main attention.