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20 June 2009
Dear Dr. Carroll,
Your employment of creation-bashing masquerading behind
the muse of "critical thinking" seems to me an obvious
misuse and a gross injustice done towards your
distinguished scholastic resume.I
would hope that a man so well educated as yourself in the
value of the objective interpretation of empirical
observations, would utilize his own strongly proposed
method when integrating science with the world around us.
reply: Well, you got my attention. I
suppose that was the point of your bombast. Based on dozens
of letters I've received that start as yours does, I
predict that you will not provide a single example or
piece of evidence to support your accusations.
I
agree with you that Creation [sic] is, by its definition,
infallible but, although evolution is, in theory,
fallible, it is seldom, if ever, critically evaluated.In my experience I have seen both evolutionists and
creationists equally employ the methods you described to
reconcile new evidence that was seemingly contradictory to
their respective ideas.
reply:
Nice shift from my "masquerading" as a critical thinker to
the claim that evolution is rarely critically evaluated.
I'll let what I've already written and published stand as
my defense to the charge of masquerading. To the charge
that evolution is rarely critically evaluated I can only
reply by noting that you don't know what you're talking
about. To make such a claim reveals the paucity and
poverty of your experience.
By the
way, I never claim that creationism is infallible. I might
claim that some believers in creationism think that the
Bible is infallible and that stories of talking snakes and
creation of humans out of clay or ribs are infallibly true
stories. But I would never claim that creationism is
infallible, since I believe the evidence is overwhelming
that the idea of some powerful being creating the universe
is both false and absurd.
For
you to propose that it is only, or even predominantly
creationists that are dogmatic and uncritical in their
engagement of observation is either naïve, willfully
ignorant, or both. I would expect a
well-respected doctor such as yourself to, at the very
least, practice what he preaches. Unfortunately,
a hypocritical and pridefully dogmatic tone permeates all
of your writings that I have read in a seemingly obvious
self-contradiction.
reply:
As noted above, I predict you will not provide a single
example or piece of evidence to support your accusations.
Simply
put, sir, you have ironically become what you so obviously
and brazenly hate: a pseudoscientific dogmatist in support
of the religion of Evolution [sic].
reply:
Your evidence?
I
sincerely hope that you will read and, at least consider
what I have written and that you will truly arrive at your
goal of unbiased critical evaluation, wherever that leads
your conclusions.
Thank
you for your time.
unsigned
reply: Yes, folks,
that's the end of the unsigned complainer's complaint.
Occasionally, I
will get a rant from a creationist who provides evidence for his
claims regarding creationism and evolution, but the usual letter
is like this one: accusatory and empty of cognitive content.
For those
creationists who actually want to find out what kind of debate
and thinking has gone on in the history of science regarding the
topic of evolution, I recommend you read the following to get
you started:
Coyne, Jerry A. 2009. Why Evolution Is True. Viking
Adult.
Darwin, Charles. From So Simple a Beginning: Darwin's Four
Great Books (Voyage of the H.M.S. Beagle, The Origin of
Species, The Descent of Man, The Expression of Emotions in Man
and Animals). ed. E. O. Wilson.
Dawkins, Richard. River Out of Eden: A Darwinian View of
Life (1995, Basic Books).
Dawkins, Richard. Climbing Mount Improbable (1996
Viking Press).
Dawkins, Richard. The Blind Watchmaker: Why the Evidence of
Evolution Reveals a Universe Without Design (1996: W.W.
Norton).
Dawkins, Richard (2004). The Ancestor's Tale: A Pilgrimage
to the Dawn of Evolution. Houghton Mifflin.
Dennett, Daniel Clement. Darwin's Dangerous Idea: Evolution
and the Meanings of Life (New York : Simon & Schuster,
1995).
Dobzhansky, Theodosius. Genetics and the Origin of Species
(Columbia University Press, 1982).
Edey, Maitland A. and Donald C. Johanson. Blueprints :
Solving the Mystery of Evolution (Penguin, 1990).
Gould, Stephen Jay, Ever Since Darwin, (New York: W.W.
Norton & Company, 1979).
Gould, Stephen Jay. Hen's Teeth and Horse's Toes (New
York: W.W. Norton & Company,1983).
Gould, Stephen Jay. Eight Little Piggies (New York:
W.W. Norton & Company, 1993).
Kitcher, Phillip. Abusing Science: the Case Against
Creationism (MIT Press, 1983).
Larson, Edward. Evolution: The Remarkable History of a
Scientific Theory (Modern Library 2004).
Miller, Kenneth R. (2000). Finding Darwin's God: A
Scientist's Search for Common Ground Between God and Evolution.
Perennial.
Plimer, Ian. Telling Lies for God: Reason vs. Creationism
(Random House, New South Wales, Australia: 1994).
Prothero,Donald R. Evolution: What the Fossils Say
and Why It Matters. (Columbia University Press, 2007).
Ruse, Phillip. 2008. Darwinism and Its Discontents.
Cambridge University Press.
Scott, Eugenie C.2004.
Evolution vs. Creationism : An Introduction.
Greenwood Press.
For those who are
not familiar with the kinds of claims made by creationists who
actually produce arguments, however lame and feeble, for their
positions, see An
Index to Creationist Claims edited by Mark Isaak at
Talk Origins.
p.s. I'll reject
evolution when a fossil of a jackass is found in a pre-Cambrian
layer of sediment. (Or wasn't there a jackass on Noah's boat?)
The unsigned complainer returns and signs himself "Mr. H."
21 June 2009
Dr. Carroll, I apologize for the accusatory tone of my comments.
My intent was not to prove creation or disprove evolution. That
goal could not possibly be accomplished through one single
comment.
reply: Apology
noted. I realize your intent was not to prove creation, but
to insult me. That goal is easily accomplished in a single
comment.
I was simply
saying that, if your intent is to insult the validity of
creation or to strengthen the case for evolution, then say that.
Don't pretend to take such a neutral stance as "critical
thinker".
reply: My intent
in the creationism article is to define and expose it for what
it is: a pseudoscience that is promoted by certain Christians to
infuse their particular brand of religion into our public
schools.
It is inarguably
true that there is a mountain of evidence out there that
pertains directly to the origins debate. The evidence is the
same for a creationist as it is for an evolutionist.
reply: You might
as well claim that the amount of money is the same for a poor
person as it is for a rich person. Sure, the available evidence
is the same, but once that evidence is evaluated the two sides
have very different data in their corners. The creationist
accepts stories of talking snakes and people turned to salt or
brought back from the dead. The evolutionist can't accept the
story of creation in the Bible as a literal description of
origins. Furthermore, the creationist rejects mountains of data
because they don't fit the fairy tale version of origins.
The discrepancies
arise within the interpretation of the evidence. As you have
said repeatedly in your writings, interpretations are rarely, if
ever, completely unbiased. I would never argue that creationism
is a pure, uniformitarian (if your will) science. By definition,
creation requires a supernatural act or event. I would however
argue that evolution is heavily reliant on the interpretation of
empirical observations that is alternative to the interpretation
of those same observations by creationists. It is my contention
that the discrepancies lie more in the interpretations than in
the evidences themselves.
reply: Really?
Then your contention is wrong. Their methods are opposed to one
another. The creationist considers it his duty to defend his
interpretation of the Bible (not his interpretation of the
scientific evidence) and to twist and distort the scientific
evidence and the methods of science (such as dating techniques)
to fit his preconceived notion of what is true. The evolutionist
lets the chips fall where they may and does not presuppose the
truth must fit some dogma.
According to your
definition of pseudoscience, one could also classify evolution
as a pseudoscience.
reply: Naturally,
you are not going to produce any evidence to support your claim.
I like a man who keeps it simple. Accuse and run.
I don't pretend
to think that creation is without its holes (speaking purely
scientifically) and biases, but do not think that evolution is
immune to them either. I am also a little surprised at the end
of your reply to my comment. In it, you accuse me of being
experientially impoverished and lacking in knowledge, and
respond by suggesting that I inform myself on the debate by
reading a large list of books presenting ONE SIDE of it. I am
not quite sure how that would would help.
reply: You claim
evolution is "seldom,
if ever, critically evaluated." Only a person ignorant of
what actually goes on in the evolution literature could make
such a claim. The list of books is intended to help you remove
your ignorance.
On a side note,
let me be informal and to the point for one second. You are very
smart. I know that you are smart. You know that you are smart.
There is no need for intellectual bullying or patronizing those
with opposing views. Your point would be better received if you
simply let it speak for itself without the insulting tone. Thank
your for you time and reply.
Mr. H
reply: I don't
know how smart you are, but I know you are pig-ignorant
regarding the kind of debate and thinking that has occurred
regarding evolution in the scientific community over the past
one hundred and fifty years. You seem to think that you can make
unsubstantiated claims and not be held accountable for them. You
are trying to intimidate critics by describing them as bullies,
patronizing, pseudoscientists, lacking in critical thinking,
etc.
I reserve my
insulting tone for those who use the same with me.
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