Timestamps are in UTC.
mkaply is Michael Kaply <http://www.kaply.com/weblog/> and is the developer of Operator <https://addons.mozilla.org/firefox/4106/>
julianstahnke is Julian Stahnke and works for last.fm and implements microformats wherever he can
csarven is Sarven Capadisli and can be found online at http://www.csarven.ca
[[hcard-examples-in-wild]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcard-examples-in-wild&diff=0&oldid=12427 * FunkyG * (+197)
bergie is lives in Finland and blogs at http://bergie.iki.fi/blog/ and Midgard CMS developer
jkridner is Jason Kridner (JasonK on microformats.org/wiki) and blogs at http://blog.hangerhead.com.
kingryan is ryan king
Is there an applicatable microformat for product listing ?
i believe there's hProduct proposal page on the wiki
I saw that already, but it seems to describe just one product. Is it applicatable to both product page and product listing ?
Hi, I ́m new to microformats and just wondering about hcards I ́ve seen it covers things like skype but what about irc nick name?
OpenStandards, http://microformats.org/wiki/hcard-brainstorming#Encoding_.22modern.22_attributes
IRC is still being addressed.
Faerris, thank you reading now
ahh
Sure thing. :)
I support your nick. ;)
I ́m liking how the net is starting to piece together, only recently heard of microformats but always had problems dealing with such things as how do I go about marking up an address...etc
Yeah, it's great to see stuff finally coming around full circle.
I only just started reading up on MF myself. It's really compelling stuff.
there isn ́t any way of describing someone I saw from a log that i did on google concerning marriage and relationship but now I ́m basically reading about xfn
XFN is definitely an interesting concept.
I haven't really read too much into it yet.
nor have I but from the looks of it, it seems to be too powerful for general stuff
Oh yeah? How's that?
well instead of just stating you are married it seems like it provides a link I might be wrong I ́ve only just started to look at it
I think the reasoning behind that is to convey the relationship you have to the person you are linking to.
yeah it is, thats exactly what is used for
if you think about it, its very myspace/social network friendly
you ́re going to see alot more myspace type sites appear in the future
Oh sure, now what I'm wondering is how it might link up to hCard, as in, is there a good way of conveying relationship, and perhaps providing a reference to their own hCard, perhaps if the corresponding person grants permission.
So that not only can you understand the relationship of the person that is linked to, but their information as well.
yeah thats how it seems to me
Faerris, http://www.informit.com/guides/content.asp?g=webdesign&seqNum=293&rl=1 check out that
Oh nice, thanks OpenStandards.
Sorry, been busy cleaning the apartment. :)
thats ok just found the article and covers what we were talking about earlier slightly you might already know this mind you
Oh, I like relearning stuff all the time. :)
So if it is something I know, all the better!
What got you into reading about MF, or standards in general?
well i just recently saw a video on google that talked about microformats the first thing that went through my mind is how could this work for me and thats basically it always been into standards I guess
like svg will be big and when we get the chance to use xforms client side natively i ́ll be testing it out straight away
Ah very cool.
I did most of my school focus on HCI, so I was big into accessibility/usability.
well i took a web development course back in college back in 2003, i ended up failing due to how the course was ran, quite sad could of been a good course
Ah yeah, my teachers were all lacking in some form or another, but most the web teachers were strict computer science professors, so they more studied software engineering and such.
Nothing wrong with CS at all, but they sort of limited their sites.
i focus on accessibility and usability myself that also helped me fail, quite sad the fact that the course was pushing frames and tables
Eww.
Well, there's the problem right there, haha.
exactly, at the time i was already doing css sites
Same here.
It's rather funny, I sort of taught myself everything I'd need for my current job, and took nothing away from the courses I took.
its sad when a course leads you down the wrong path just so you pass an exam
thats how i ́ve been going actually problem is I suck at graphical work and can ́t program
Ah yeah, that's a bit like my situation.
I'm not a talented artist and can't really "program" any of these really fantastic languages like Ruby.
what line of work do you do mainly
Enterprise content management for a consulting firm.
so I guess thats what pushed you in the direction of microformats then
Oh definitely. Especially since I do a lot of work with MS, they're a huge offender right now of standards.
yeah i ́ve noticed that actually its interesting that ie7 lacks xhtml support and yet ms believe that microformats are important
Yeah, for IE8. ;)
by that time FF 3 will be out with huge improvements
Oh definitely. :)
What line of work are you pursuing?
well i ́m looking to become a web dev/web designer I have the knowledge just need the experience
Ah nice. Out of college recently?
2 yrs now but i ́ve been teaching myself since
now i ́ve got a bit of linux experience so its alright
Great! What are you doing in the meantime?
well at the middle i ́m in the middle of learning to do some rails development i did have a coder but now i ́be been given the task to do myself
Ah nice!
What's up for yourself tonight?
huh?
What are you doing this evening?
ahh well i was going to do some work on my typo blog just add my hcard to it but forget my pass so iĺl do that tomorrow
what about you?
Mostly deciding if I want to start up a side consulting job.
I'm a bit more open to the idea now that I have a solid career already in motion. Now I can take my spare time and develop it the way I'd like without worrying too much about finances.
where's your blog, OpenStandards?
its a development one right now still working on the theme
ah
have you seen mephisto?
i just switched to it and it's great
no i haven ́t
whats the themeing engine like for it
it's called liquid
does typo use rhtml?
yeah
I really should get to reading this Rails book of mine.
the big thing will be svg IMO
[[hcard-examples-in-wild]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcard-examples-in-wild&diff=0&oldid=12428 * ZenPsycho * (+76) New Examples -
[[hcard-examples-in-wild]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcard-examples-in-wild&diff=0&oldid=12429 * ZenPsycho * (+24) New Examples -
yeah rails!
liquid is pretty restrictive as compared to rhtml
but it's non-evaling so it's safe
you know whats nice
del.icio.us its great
I haven't really used it all that much myself.
i downloaded the ff extension yesterday and i ́m impressed
bergie is lives in Finland and blogs at http://bergie.iki.fi/blog/ and Midgard CMS developer
[[User:WinningHam]] N http://microformats.org/wiki/User:WinningHam * WinningHam * (+42) yay! me!
drewinthehead is the author of hKit and a developer for Yahoo! Europe
Hi drewinthehead.
hi Faerris
How's your morning coming along?
Ronnos is Ron Kok, a friendly student Communication and Multimedia Design in The Netherlands
I Ronnos.
*Hi rather.
Hi Faerris
How's it going?
Just woke up :P
Ah well morning to you then!
thanx
how's it going up there?
Oh rather cold tonight, traffic was horrendous and lots of people ended up staying in town overnight instead of braving the roads.
bengee is Benjamin Nowack (http://bnode.org/)
Hi bengee.
hi Faerris
How's it going?
micrOK, I'd say ;)
Hehe, sounds good!
trovster is a web developer from the UK who writes on http://www.trovster.com and helps with www.multipack.co.uk
Hi trovster.
Mornin'
How do you get these welcome messages I'm seeing?
They're quite desirable. :)
Search for jibot on the wiki, you've gotta add yourself, can't remember how
Ah righto, many thanks.
Charl is Charl van Niekerk and writes about standards at http://standards.za.net/
Hi Charl.
Welp, I'm off to bed, have a good night!
Phae is Frances Berriman of http://www.fberriman.com/
tada
awesome.
win
funnily enough - I was thinking the mailing list was dead quiet this last 24 hours or so
i guess there was a period of quite a bit of activity and debate ... perhaps folks are burnt out
Hi, Temp.
hi kapowaz
has anybody been to BETT?
a former employer of mine has a stand there. I am thinking of going to torment them.
maybe
not this year
exhibitions are fun though
london/
Kensington Olympia
www.bettshow.com
hmm
I am supposed to be meeting a couple of ex-colleagues for lunch there, as they have been dragged along to fly the flag
better ask about that, actually.
nice to get out of the office
edinburgh, april, btw.
for young mr suda
ah of course
I'll be there
cool.
but yes. vEvent
I'm presenting on microformats, coincidentally
ah, he hasn't replied to my reply, so i don't know what the actual event it yet
heh
is* yet
I'm not sure when it's going public
what did you fancy for a vEvent then? something more structured, or just social?
i'm only here for the beer
:D
i don't mind actually
heh
might be good to have something more structured ... but I don't know what
me neither.
educational, discussional (is that word?)?
discussional might be good
maybe something around the time of BarCampLondon2
m'k
you think? or not?
i'm being interrupted too :S
darned work
don't you hate it when works gets in the way :)
...work?
I was just thinking that if you want something discussion based then you have to lead it a bit
People can't do it on their own. There has to be a a vague agenda
true
we could discuss the validity of the ABBR@title pattern :D
ugh
don't even
but yeah.
discuss beer.
it's a universal subject.
thats what we have pub standards for
it's also too infrequent :(
anyway we never discuss beer
hmm
microbeermats.org
what was your thinking behind having it near barcamp, drew?
only that people might be gathered already
and that I'm moving house at the end of the month
m'k
my birthday's at the end of the month too, so i'm more tempted by beer then
bere
beer
sorry, that was involuntary.
I kinda dig hte idea of something structured that lets people discuss uF 'issues'. Maybe we should operate in the way that LRUG do and such.
iand is Ian Davis who blogs at http://iandavis.com/blog
julianstahnke is Julian Stahnke and works for last.fm and implements microformats wherever he can
what's the LRUG, Phae?
http://lrug.org/
The 'other' cult.
ah, gotchya
RoR is a pyramid scheme
why?
just a joke. i have some ruby enthusiast friends who "sell" ruby
like you 'sell' microformats...? :)
Cloud_ is Cloud
yep :)
it's okay. i'm not knocking them. rob and damien are cool.
just banter
wait, we can sell microformats?
how much do you think we could get for it?
not a lot
do you think we ́ll ever see a hProfile covering features of people such as eye colour, weight and even the build of someone?
If a need arises where that would be practical, sure.
where do you see that sort of information published currently, OpenStandards? dating sites?
Dating sites is the one that springs to mind for me too
Or medical records
Police records, too.
indeed thats one type, medical records, you might even use it for a historical record
sports statistics
for individual sportsmen
describing a person is quite a common thing in reality
or it might be even a person how about an animal
If you're interested in this, it's worth gathering a good handful of real examples out and about on the web
when you mentioned animals I instantly thought of species classification
yup... that's the key. We only create new microformats for data that people are already publishing.
as per wikipedia, say
Right.
that's an interesting case ... volume vs diversity
well drewinthehead shouldn ́t it be based around key features, like we know a dog has 4 legs unless there is a problem but what don ́t know is the type of hair it has. Ie: short or long
ntoll is Nicholas Tollervey and can be found online at http://ntoll.org
those sorts of considerations are quite far down the line
as mentioned, the best thing to do is 1) collect examples of how this data is currently marked up and 2) see how much can be achieved with existing microformats
for example, how close can you get using tags?
tags are surprisingly useful
your right, good point cheers
tags are very useful, but they do have their limits
of course. and when you hit that limit that's usually a good point to think about what new stuff we might need
exhaust all other avenues first, is all.
e.g. associating human readable attributes with a tag
csarven is Sarven Capadisli and can be found online at http://www.csarven.ca
danja is Danny Ayers, http://dannyayers.com
http://pastebin.archlinux.org/814 quick finderings show that, gender, breed, age and name come up the most wen it comes to animal adoption sites
bergie is lives in Finland and blogs at http://bergie.iki.fi/blog/ and Midgard CMS developer
Mr_Elusive is not a programmer from id but makes his home at http://eswat.ca
SamRose is found at http://smartmobs.com, http://communitywiki.org, http://blog.p2pfoundation.com, http://barcampbank.com, and http://cooperationcommons.com
right. I gotta do some work. drew - just a reminder though de hems tonight for Paul's bon voyage.
thanks Phae ... not going to be able to make it unfortunately
:( alright
see ya guys later.
briansuda is brian suda of http://suda.co.uk and is at (-0000 GMT) and is author of "Using Microformats" for O'Reilly [http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/microformats/]
sreynen is Scott Reynen, who makes things at makedatamakesense.com
Ronnos is Ron Kok, a friendly student Communication and Multimedia Design in The Netherlands
monkinetic is redmonk is SteveIvy is Steve Ivy - http://redmonk.net
hiyo
howdy
hello
dglazkov is Dimitri Glazkov (http://glazkov.com) and lives in Birmingham, AL, USA (-6:00 GMT)
DanC is Dan Connolly http://www.w3.org/People/Connolly/
hmm... 2 more schedules. paper ones.
[[irc-people]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=irc-people&diff=0&oldid=12430 * DanC * (-60) not keep office hours any more
mkaply is Michael Kaply <http://www.kaply.com/weblog/> and is the developer of Operator <https://addons.mozilla.org/firefox/4106/>
ooh... Operator...
can there be multiple items for one hReview?
item info. required. fn (url || photo ) | hCard (for person or business) | hCalendar (for event)
intresting... we were just working on multiple-hreviews-in-one-file in some GRDDL primer work yesterday
ok, so does that mean an item must have an fn an hCard or an hCalendar? or can item just be a string of text (no class)
hmm... the GRDDL primer is supposed to be gentle. http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/grddl-wg/doc29/primer.html
DanC: How does this relate to rdfE?
RDFe
eRDF - whatever it is :0
oh... eRDF ,as in Ian Davis's work? eRDF is completely grddl-happy
eRDF is a GRDDL poster-child. see the grddl primer
the hook is the profile attribute. eRDF has a profile. microformats are supposed to have profiles, sorta.
"ACCEPTED. Yes, all microformats that introduce new classnames SHOULD include an XMDP (http://gmpg.org/xmdp/) profile " -- http://microformats.org/wiki/hcalendar-issues
mkaply, are you following the uf test stuff?
I suppose we don't have negative tests yet
mkaply, name some?
though x2v-preflight has some "I see country; you probably meant country-name" stuff.
dishola.com
No fns for any of their items - that's why I was asking the question can item just be a string of text (the hReview creator always puts an fn in)
I actually have Operator reporting errors on the JS console and making a valiant effort to find the line number (and failing most of the time by about 5 lines)
hm
briansuda is brian suda of http://suda.co.uk and is at (-0000 GMT) and is author of "Using Microformats" for O'Reilly [http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/microformats/]
wow, summoning people really does work
(DanC wonders if brian Suda is around)
well, i know the answer :P
# [16:04:26] <mkaply> can there be multiple items for one hReview?
briansuda: and does item have to have an fn explicitly, or can it just be text (in an hReview)
oh... I guess that's different from more than one hReview in a document
at the moment FN has to be explicit
and it needs to be a child of an item
briansuda: I'm looking at sites like dishola.com
according to the schema (http://microformats.org/wiki/hreview#Schema) it just says "item info. required"
So if I don't have an fn for the item, should I just use textContent for the item?
but it says item should be an fn an hCard or an hCalendar
IMHO i would through an error is there is no FN
and NOT take just the value
feedback loops!
you guys are going to love the new operator. I display the HTML of the microformat in a readonly text area so it can be easily copied
Reallysweet
oooooh, nice
That microformat has two items in it as well which is wrong, correct?
mkaply, link?
dishola.com
bastards. Their first item is in a "display:none"
DanC, http://dconstruct06.madgex.com/ has cut-n-paste microformats for all the attendees
mkaply: have you thought about 1) highlighting uFs on hover, and 2) putting actions in the right-click menu ?
nonkinetic: I have thought about both. That starts to get a little tricky because it is messing with content, but it is on my list.
yeah, you have to becareful because how many people at the meta element to stop Microsoft smart tags
It would definitely be an option.
And it wouldn't affect the page until hover
that's what those Microsoft Image toolbar does, it is only active on hover - just something to note
They are located in Austin (dishola) - I offered to go help them
http://dishola.com/dishes/view/86 only has one 'item', but the page is not valid
They also aren't doing vcards for the restaurants which is surprising
it might be a problem with the data in the database being saved as a single string
hmm... http://dishola.com/users/register oh for openid!
installing operator... unsigned. hmm.
ew... gotta restart?
cool. dishola just offered me to go to a party. And they are going to fix their microformats
Sweet
DanC: Noone really knows how to sign extensions :(
And you have to restart because of the chrome change
DanC: If you want to, you can grab the beta from http://www.kaply.com/operator/operator.xpi
is the beta interestingnly different from "Version 0.6.1, released on Jan 4, 2007."?
it found one place and 9 events on my homepage. :) http://www.w3.org/People/Connolly/
Danc: It has support for XFolk, as well as the new debug dialogs I talked about.
support for object/include pattern in hCalendar
hmm
Mag.nolia support
I'm still getting my head around the basics. "Live Clipboard" sounds tasty
Well, it's not terribly interesting unless you have a place to paste it :)
http://www.kaply.com/weblog/2006/12/18/live-clipboard-in-operator/
Andy Mabbett had a really good suggestion I want to implement soon - format the event as text and copy it to the clipboard so you can paste it anywhere
eventful.com had Live Clipboard
the new Windows Live Writter supported Live Clipboard (not sure about a paste)
only for copying the events
Windows Live Writer supports pasting of events only
that's why all the eventful pages have two entries in operator - they create a second vcard for Live Clip
mkaply: what about ma.gnolia support?
(i'm evngelizing ma.gnolia to support votelinks)
Live Clipboard is an XML wrapper around microformats and/or flat files
what's in the wrapper?
some mimeTyping, let me find the schema
nonkinetic: just a handler to look for things at magnolia when we find a tag -
http://rayozzie.spaces.live.com/editorial/rayozzie/demo/liveclip/specification/v092.html
looks like:
<?xml version="1.0" encoding="utf-8"?>
<liveclipboard version="0.92" xmlns:lc="http://www.microsoft.com/schemas/liveclipboard">
<lc:data>
<lc:format type="vcard" contenttype="application/xhtml+xml">
<lc:item>
then your payload and then closing tags
DanC: I messed around with coding some live clipboard stuff
the MS Js code is UGLY
type="vcard" er... is there some central registry of types? why not URIs? sigh.
bad ugly
I wish they had shown how to add live clipboard to an existing microformat
I actually put the full serialized microformat on the clipboard (I don't clean it up) - the MS JS code cleans it up by creating a new card using SPANs/DIVs
there is a mailing list for LC http://discussms.hosting.lsoft.com/archives/live-clip.html
so in the single-item case, the liveclipboard markup adds no information. lc:item is used to separate items, I guess.
yep
looks an awful lot like GDATA/Atom
phph. firefox crashes when I post to delicous
Simon Willison (http://simonwillison.net/) has been posting alot recently about OpenID
he works for Yahoo! UK so would imagine they are looking to build it into some of their properties
it sure would be nice if ff sessionsaver integrated with gnome so that I wouldn't have to sort thru the 20 windows every time I restart ff, minimizing most of them and putting them in various desktops
Simon actually works for Sunnyvale
Ah, but is he based in London?
interesting. ma.gnolia is now parsing upcoming hcal events and showing the event data on the bookmark detail page, but does not reproduce the hcal uF.
(upcoming.org)
(cf. http://ma.gnolia.com/people/lhalff/bookmarks/buluwik)
that's silly
that is interesting, i wonder why they don't repurpose the data again in microformats, (maybe they are worried about legal issues?), the ma.gnolia guys are very keen on implementing microformats
hmm... why can't I type in the address bar any more, since installing operator?
briansuda: i commented on the post announcing the feature - http://ma.gnolia.com/blog/2007/01/10/ma-gnolia-meets-upcoming-org-save-the-date - bringing up the question. feel free to drop in and add your 2c.
operator seems to grok my itinerary pretty well. http://www.w3.org/2007/01dc-bos/bos-jan.html
it finds 8 contacts, most of which are dups
hmm... what does "export contact" do? it seems to just do nothing
argh! what's going on with the address bar?
interesting... no hcard on https://addons.mozilla.org/firefox/19155/author/
my back button is gone. this is really, really wierd
danja is Danny Ayers, http://dannyayers.com
hmm... the operator "actions" are all noun phrases, e.g. Flickr. What does "Flickr" mean as an action? add to flickr? see releated things on flickr?
operator finds 32 contacts and 11 events on http://www.w3.org/People/Connolly/events/ . no noticeable performance issue.
DanC: i've had the same issue with my address bar going wonky and my home-back-forward buttons disappearing
i had not linked it to operator, but maybe there's somethign there
monkinetic, I'm using ff on debian linux (aka iceweasel)
i hid the operator toolbar and have not had issues since, i think
FF/Win
right click in the tolbar area (not the operator toolbar, strangely enough) but up by the address bar
then deselect operator
or, view->toolbars->operator
(in the menu)
i think you'll have to close the window and open a new one to fix the address bar problem though
thanks... I've got the operator toolbar hidden now... but ... ah...
yes, new windows have back buttons. thanks!
no... where do we file the problem report/bug?
DanC: do you have th status icon on?
I just turned on the status icon
yeah
not as useful perhaps, but workable
the operator geo items... the lat/long is used for the menu item labels. kinda ugly. is that by design? or is my markup lacking something?
cool, briansuda + revyu.com
what does operator do with hresume? I see http://sobac.com/bjonkman/resume/ linked from the operator testing page (which is way cool). operator seems to notice contacts and events on the resume; is that all it's designed to do?
oo, nice
danja, do you have a profile for hresume?
mlinksva is Mike Linksvayer and from Creative Commons
or was chime working on that hresume profile?
hmm... does operator animate license info?
DanC, hresume profile - no
I still didn't finish a hReview xslt - is a reasonably complete one in circulation?
dunno
[[hcard-examples-in-wild-fr]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcard-examples-in-wild-fr&diff=0&oldid=12431 * ChristopheDucamp * (+2912) synchronizing
oh... we have one in the grddl primer somewhere...
hmm... I should be able to follow my nose from http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/grddl-wg/doc29/hotel-data.html to find it, but I don't see a transformation link. briansuda ?
not yet DanC
you're not using xslt ot make hotel-data.rdf?
the XSLT is not completely finished so it hasn't been checked into CVS
phpht
please check in what you have
i am using my XSLT, it is in HG
oh... where in hg?
hg.microformats.org/ in x2v/hreview
;-0
;-)
ok, there it is, in http://hg.microformats.org/x2v?cmd=manifest;manifest=68367b0de344b09aaa871314e355e7d6e62a86b4;path=/hreview/
hmm... <xsl:template name="nCallBack"> ... so you're trying to share code between conversions to .vcf and .rdf formats... that's an interesting challeng in XSLT.
briansuda, it looks *considerably* more finished than mine
well i have been working on stuff with Tony Heath from revyu and getting some more things worked out
the XSLT tends to break pretty easy
it doesn't work with the W3C XSLT 2.0 service, so it still needs some work
thanks for sharing despite the issues
then there has been talks of introducing exslt elements, and i need to test compatibility
depends a lot which elements - the extensions that can be done in xslt are sweet
well the problem is that i need to "pass back" multiple values from a template
right now i am 'cheating' with a call back template, but with some exslt you can pass back multiple balues
values
sounds like the sort of thing that's much more straightforward in XSLT 2.0. (not to mention python/php/perl...) hmm.
well, it is because i tried to create a single XSL that finds the data, then you basically write the presentational logic for any given format
that single MF-template.xsl handles the nitty-gritty
hmm... where's Microformats.js ? I'm having a really hard time finding the operator source.
kingryan is ryan king
DanC: is that with the beta (the button problem and the typing problem)
no, I haven't installed the beta yet
nonkinetic: I had done something really bad in my code that hopefully fixes the problem
DanC: the source code isn't in a CVS repository yet.
DanC: I'm here now - ask me any question you have
the hResume stuff - I wasn't sure what to do with an hResume. That why it doesn't have many "actions"
And i would love better name for the Actions.
Those were kind of thrown together
[[User:ChristopheDucamp]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=User:ChristopheDucamp&diff=0&oldid=12432 * ChristopheDucamp * (+671) hcard-test to be continued...
I switched to the other view (can't find the name now; how do I get the options dialog with the toolbar turned off?)
ff2 OR FF 1.5?
Display style Microformats makes more sense, to me, than Actions
ff2
Tools->Add-ons
Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.8.1.1) Gecko/20061205 Iceweasel/2.0.0.1 (Debian-2.0.0.1+dfsg-1)
right click on the extension and select Options
I'm going to add an Options menu to the statusbar and toolbar button today
Work in progress :)
the javascript equivalent of python's "import" seems to involve an awful lot of gyrations.
hm, same problem here danja... totally unfocussed today :D
hmm... no yield. ( returnElements.push(node); )
xpathResult = content.document.evaluate("//*[contains(@" + attributeName + ", '" + attributeValue + "' )]", rootElement, null, 0, null);
let's compare that to...
<xsl:when test="(descendant::*[contains(concat(' ',normalize-space(@class),' '),' summary ')]
the js code will match @class="vcardDoodad"
right?
it looks that way to me, yes
what about the ,
[[User:ChristopheDucamp]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=User:ChristopheDucamp&diff=0&oldid=12433 * ChristopheDucamp * (+0)
the , separates the args to contains
in the js
ah, rigfht
I wonder if @class="vcardDoodad" is in the hcard tests. I don't think we have many negative tests.
we have a few negative tests, but I'm not sure if we do for that
we need to start http://microformats.org/wiki/tests-issues
we have a few possitive/negitive test for TAGS
and for include-pattern
DanC: I have a fix for that.
"//*[contains(concat(' ', @" + attributeName + ", ' '), ' " + attributeValue + " ')]";
DanC: I test those class names
foovcard vcardfoo fovcardbar
I think your fix needs spaces around the attributeValue too
they are there - ' "
just hard to see
ah.
indeed, hard to see
basically, add spaces around the whole attribute and then test against <space>attributeValue<space>
right
the original operator was parsing node by node (not xpath)
based on my initial tests, switching to xpath improved performance by ver 10000%
is xpath support in js widely deployed?
Not reallt
oh joy
do a search on getElementsByClass on the web - noone is using xpath
I was told that if I used CSS selectors, it could be even faster, but I can't find any JS code on how to use CSS selectors
jquery has some stuff, but it can't solve all the issues
the xpath should be good enough. It made some very obvious performance improvements. I have no delay switching tabs, even on large pages
[[tests-issues]] N http://microformats.org/wiki/tests-issues * RyanKing * (+775) started page, added issued raised in IRC by DanC
when I asked "is xpath support in js widely deployed", I meant: do javascript engines support it? not: do js programmers use it?
DanC: that's the way I interpreted- I don't think it's widely deployed (ie, IE doesn't support it)
Doesn't internet explorer lack xpath?
I guess I should re-callibrate; this js is in a ff extension, where concerns about what IE supports are much less relevant
It seems pretty commonplace in FF development
I wonder what the half-life of an IE release is. If some mind-bogglinly dangerous security issue were found in IE 4, 5, and 6, and MS said "we're only gonna fix it in IE7", I wonder how long the world would take to upgrade.
[[User:ChristopheDucamp]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=User:ChristopheDucamp&diff=0&oldid=12434 * ChristopheDucamp * (+1147)
I was doing some greasemonkey stuff and I was amazed by how great xpath was after having to fuck with the dom all the time
I saw some instructions for running IE7 on linux yesterday. I didn't really get to the bottom of them.
I'm looking at converting that Windows XP disk image MS has to run on QEMU
moz xpath docs appear to be actively maintained
Our "testing environment" right now is open VNC servers on all the crappy dells with weird ie versions isntalled
[[User:ChristopheDucamp]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=User:ChristopheDucamp&diff=0&oldid=12435 * ChristopheDucamp * (+67)
What about it?
I'd like to think it offers some hope of getting away from VNC+dells-with-crappy-old-ie-versions
bewest is Ben West and lives in San Francisco, CA. He daydreams about web style software, works at Alexa.com and blogs at http://bewest.wordpress.com/
[[User:ChristopheDucamp]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=User:ChristopheDucamp&diff=0&oldid=12436 * ChristopheDucamp * (-1183)
argh
<a href="/cwilso/archive/tags/ajaxexperience/default.aspx" rel="tag">ajaxexperience</a>
should I be backparsing and getting ajaxeperience as the tag name from the URL
Should i be smarter like that?
[[User:ChristopheDucamp]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=User:ChristopheDucamp&diff=0&oldid=12437 * ChristopheDucamp * (+7)
no, it is the last piece after the last '/'
so it should be default.aspx
I have to tell you that based on my experience thus far with operator and rel-tag, that spec is totally screwed up.
A lot of people just don't have that kind of control over their urLs.
:) you should send an email to the lost serv which your results
They install software, and the software gives them that URL
what bugs me about tags is that everybody assumes they live on technorati; i.e. they ignore the part of the URL before the last /
DanC: well, technorati was the first one (or one of the first ones) aggregating tags, so everyone glommed onto that. are you saying that you wish that the local tag spaces got more attention?
yes
so what behavior would you like to see?
One think I should do is to change operator so first action is "Load the URL"
as opposed to pointing everyone somewhere else to load the tagspace
Although, I was wondering if operator needs to provide access to things that are already on the web page - or is it about extending the functionality of the web page using the microformats
or is that assumed based on the rel-tag spec?
DanC: there have been more tagspaces popping up. Note that WordPress 2 uses a local tag space rather than technorati
gah!!
eep! /me goes to fix
it would be nice for Operator to do *something* with the tag space (linking is good), though maybe presenting http://tagspace.org/tag as a link might be enough...
microformat handling is a required feature of firefox 3: http://wiki.mozilla.org/Firefox3/Firefox_Requirements
nice :)
sreynen is Scott Reynen, who makes things at makedatamakesense.com
[[hcard-examples-in-wild-fr]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcard-examples-in-wild-fr&diff=0&oldid=12438 * ChristopheDucamp * (+699) New examples synchronized - to be cont'd with examples
ryanlowe is Ryan Lowe, http://www.fanconcert.com
danja is Danny Ayers, http://dannyayers.com
Operator is in theory the beginning of what Firefox 3 microformats will be
I'm wondering if I should rename the "common name" of tag to Tagspace(s) instead of Tag(s) to make it more clear that you are searching for the pages tags on other tagspaces
I think yes
[[hcard-examples-in-wild-fr]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcard-examples-in-wild-fr&diff=0&oldid=12439 * ChristopheDucamp * (+1852) Exemples -
mkaply, have you given any thought to giving operator a portalish thing? have people been sending you any new handlers for services or formats?
I had a suggestion to use http://userscripts.org/ to allow this
I haven't created a community around it though
Yea, that was me :X
ha
I need to go back to yr blog and add use the co.mments bookmarklets, I'm forgetting to watch stuff for replies
I know someone inside IBM someone is working on hAtom for Operator totally independent of me
[[hcard-examples-in-wild-fr]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcard-examples-in-wild-fr&diff=0&oldid=12440 * ChristopheDucamp * (+583) Exemples -
anyone have a site off the top of their head that use rel license?
Doesn't google have a license search?
that might turn up a bunch
I've thought about putting rel=license in operator but I have no idea what it would mean
the Moz
the MozCC extension appears to have a list of what URLs correspond to what licenses
I think
[[hcard-examples-in-wild-fr]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcard-examples-in-wild-fr&diff=0&oldid=12441 * ChristopheDucamp * (+1504) Exemples avec quelques problèmes -
[[hcard-examples-in-wild-fr]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcard-examples-in-wild-fr&diff=0&oldid=12442 * ChristopheDucamp * (+0) Exemples avec quelques problèmes -
why hasn't anyone suggested using title="foo" on a rel="tag" if they don't want us to use the content of the tag?
they have
but that has the same problems as using the node value
[[User:ChristopheDucamp]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=User:ChristopheDucamp&diff=0&oldid=12443 * ChristopheDucamp * (+66) add <div class="tel">+33 60 396 0492</div> E 123 trying
sreynen is Scott Reynen, who makes things at makedatamakesense.com
[[firefox-extensions]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=firefox-extensions&diff=0&oldid=12444 * AndyMabbett * (+90) Firefox developments - Firefox 3 Requirements
[[hcalendar-examples-in-wild-fr]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcalendar-examples-in-wild-fr&diff=0&oldid=12445 * ChristopheDucamp * (+642) Nouveaux Exemples - sync'd
jkridner is Jason Kridner (JasonK on microformats.org/wiki) and blogs at http://blog.hangerhead.com.
[[hreview-examples-in-wild-fr]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hreview-examples-in-wild-fr&diff=0&oldid=12446 * ChristopheDucamp * (+727) sync'd
markp is Mark Pilgrim
[[hcard-examples-in-wild-fr]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcard-examples-in-wild-fr&diff=0&oldid=12447 * ChristopheDucamp * (+12) Nouveaux exemples - correction sur 10 word review
kingryan is ryan king
[[irc-fr]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=irc-fr&diff=0&oldid=12448 * ChristopheDucamp * (-636)
[[Main Page]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=Main_Page&diff=0&oldid=12449 * ChristopheDucamp * (+1) microformats wiki in other languages - > 100 articles
[[currency-fr]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=currency-fr&diff=0&oldid=12450 * ChristopheDucamp * (-178)
[[Template:currency-related-pages-fr]] MN http://microformats.org/wiki/Template:currency-related-pages-fr * ChristopheDucamp * (+219)
[[currency-issues-fr]] MN http://microformats.org/wiki/currency-issues-fr * ChristopheDucamp * (+3744) page à traduire
[[currency-examples-fr]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=currency-examples-fr&diff=0&oldid=12451 * ChristopheDucamp * (+260) [http://enterpriseforum.mit.edu/mindshare/startingup/dilution.html MIT Enterprise Forum ] -
[[currency-examples-fr]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=currency-examples-fr&diff=0&oldid=12452 * ChristopheDucamp * (-4)
[[currency-proposal-fr]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=currency-proposal-fr&diff=0&oldid=12453 * ChristopheDucamp * (-147) sync'd
[[currency-proposal-fr]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=currency-proposal-fr&diff=0&oldid=12454 * ChristopheDucamp * (-8)
I don't suppose the Operator developer is in here??
[[currency-issues-fr]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=currency-issues-fr&diff=0&oldid=12455 * ChristopheDucamp * (+87) Problème -
[[to-do]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=to-do&diff=0&oldid=12456 * RobertBachmann * (-369) Robert Bachmann - been there, done that ;-)
RobertBachmann is Robert Bachmann <http://rbach.priv.at> from Austria (TZ: 0100)
[[currency-issues-fr]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=currency-issues-fr&diff=0&oldid=12457 * ChristopheDucamp * (-3) Alternative 1 -
davecard1ell, mkaply is the operator dev, and he doesn't appear to be here
ok - thanks
[[currency-issues-fr]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=currency-issues-fr&diff=0&oldid=12458 * ChristopheDucamp * (-1) Alternative 2 -
there is a conflict with the Tab Mix Plus extension that stops links from external apps from opening in tabs instead of windows when using the Operator plugin
I'll let him know
i believe that's already been reported: http://rbach.priv.at/Microformats-IRC/2007-01-05#T173801
amanuel is Amanuel, the social ambassador at http://otavo.com
[[currency-issues-fr]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=currency-issues-fr&diff=0&oldid=12459 * ChristopheDucamp * (+60) Alternative 3 -
ah, yes it's mentioned on https://addons.mozilla.org/firefox/4106/
[[currency-issues-fr]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=currency-issues-fr&diff=0&oldid=12460 * ChristopheDucamp * (+30) Commentaires -
[[currency-issues-fr]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=currency-issues-fr&diff=0&oldid=12461 * ChristopheDucamp * (+1) Commentaires -
bergie is lives in Finland and blogs at http://bergie.iki.fi/blog/ and Midgard CMS developer
mkaply is Michael Kaply <http://www.kaply.com/weblog/> and is the developer of Operator <https://addons.mozilla.org/firefox/4106/>
mkaply, nice extension
tried it today quite impressed by it
OpenStandards: thanks
take you long to write?
yeah, operator rocks
A couple weeks
IT was a nice learning experience though.
is red really that offensive - should I not use that color to make invalid microformats stand out?
(in the menus)
[[xfolk]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=xfolk&diff=0&oldid=12462 * Tantek * (-5) rel-tag spelling, positive wording tweaks,
tantek is Tantek <http://tantek.com> and works on Technorati and develops microformats <http://microformats.org>
http://twitter.com/t/statuses/2665143 :)
nice
http://twitter.com/vanderwal/statuses/2574753
veeliam - saw that LOL!
tantek, yep.
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