Timestamps are in UTC.
Say I mention my city, Salem, in a blog posting. Would I need to give the entire paragraph an "adr" class and then use span = locality around the city name? Can it be that disconnected? Or do we need to include more contextuality?
greetings
i've flickrd the whiteboard hResume brainstorming results between James Levin (of SimplyHired), Ryan King, and myself
http://flickr.com/photos/tantek/87059139/in/photostream/
damn....did I miss anyone answering my question?
rtomayko is tracking the free culture movement http://naeblis.cx/rtomayko/freeculture/
bkdelong is B.K. DeLong, Head Research Analyst for HALO Worldwide - http://www.haloworldwide.com. Web: http://www.brain-stream.com. Email: bkdelong@pobox.com - Is At ApacheCon
hey bkdelong
you had a question earlier, no?
karlUshi is karlcow
meuh
<span class="cow" xml:lang="fr">meuh</span>
<cite>cow</cite> ?
<q class="bovine" xml:lang="fr">meuh</q> ?
I don't cite myself ;) often :p
there's nothing wrong with citing yourself
hi
http://www.parm.net/web2.0/
hahaha
nice karlUshi
Atamido is Paul Bryson, http://orangeman.commo.de/
dglazkov is Dimitri Glazkov (http://glazkov.com)
bkdelong is B.K. DeLong, Head Research Analyst for HALO Worldwide - http://www.haloworldwide.com. Web: http://www.brain-stream.com. Email: bkdelong@pobox.com - Is At ApacheCon
[[Main Page]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=Main_Page&diff=0&oldid=4144 * ManoMano * (+434)
[[how-to-play]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=how-to-play&diff=0&oldid=4145 * ManoMano * (+433)
[[faq]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=faq&diff=0&oldid=4146 * ManoMano * (+432)
[[presentations]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=presentations&diff=0&oldid=4147 * ManoMano * (+434)
[[press]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=press&diff=0&oldid=4148 * ManoMano * (+434)
[[introduction]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=introduction&diff=0&oldid=4149 * ManoMano * (+436)
[[process]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=process&diff=0&oldid=4150 * ManoMano * (+435)
[[naming-conventions]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=naming-conventions&diff=0&oldid=4151 * ManoMano * (+435)
uh oh. We've got a spammer
[[adr]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=adr&diff=0&oldid=4152 * ManoMano * (+435)
somebody ban the bastard
Morning all.
Question - Say I mention my city, Salem, in a blog posting. Would I need to give the entire paragraph an "adr" class and then use span = locality around the city name? Can it be that disconnected? Or do we need to include more contextuality?
I don't think the spec prohibits that
but why would you want to do that?
rtomayko is tracking the free culture movement http://naeblis.cx/rtomayko/freeculture/
dglazkov: Why not? I mean, if we're going to contextualize bits and pieces why not go ahead and contextualize as much as possible.
cgriego is Chris Griego and a college student studying to supplement web scripting skills with an understanding of interactive design. and is on hiatus until March to find work in the Dallas area.
bkdelong: why not contextualize the whole blog, then? :) I guess what I am getting at is the precision of context
[[hcard]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcard&diff=0&oldid=4153 * Emiliano * (+179) Implementations -
I probably would contextualize the whole blog if there was a microformat that was relevant to each bit of text. ;)
I guess it all comes down to whether the spec says it's OK to use individual microformat class values for things like a State or someone's Firstname
[[hcard]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcard&diff=0&oldid=4154 * Emiliano * (+101) Implementations -
[[hcard]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcard&diff=0&oldid=4155 * Emiliano * (+7) Implementations -
RobertBachmann is Robert Bachmann (Timezone: 0100)
[[Special:Log/block]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=Special:Log/block&diff=0&oldid=0 * Tantek * (+0) blocked "User:ManoMano" with an expiry time of infinite: spammer
[[adr]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=adr&diff=0&oldid=4156 * Tantek * (-435) Reverted edit of ManoMano, changed back to last version by Cgriego
[[naming-conventions]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=naming-conventions&diff=0&oldid=4157 * Tantek * (-435) Reverted edit of ManoMano, changed back to last version by Tantek
[[process]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=process&diff=0&oldid=4158 * Tantek * (-435) Reverted edit of ManoMano, changed back to last version by Serginandr
[[introduction]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=introduction&diff=0&oldid=4159 * Tantek * (-436) Reverted edit of ManoMano, changed back to last version by Tantek
[[press]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=press&diff=0&oldid=4160 * Tantek * (-434) Reverted edit of ManoMano, changed back to last version by Tantek
[[presentations]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=presentations&diff=0&oldid=4161 * Tantek * (-434) Reverted edit of ManoMano, changed back to last version by DavidJanes
[[faq]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=faq&diff=0&oldid=4162 * Tantek * (-432) Reverted edit of ManoMano, changed back to last version by Tantek
[[how-to-play]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=how-to-play&diff=0&oldid=4163 * Tantek * (-433) Reverted edit of ManoMano, changed back to last version by RobertBachmann
[[Main Page]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=Main_Page&diff=0&oldid=4164 * Tantek * (-434) Reverted edit of ManoMano, changed back to last version by RobertBachmann
spam should be all cleared out. if you see any more, please point it out. thanks!
hober is Edward O'Connor and works for EVDB on http://eventful.com/ and lives in San Diego, CA (-08:00)
tantek, if you want you can set me as admin on wiki. While I am quite lazy to do anything useful, I will fend off the spammers
dglazkov, i will definitely take your offer seriously. let me get back to you on that.
np
[[hcard]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcard&diff=0&oldid=4165 * ChrisCasciano * (+239) hCard -
[[hcalendar]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcalendar&diff=0&oldid=4166 * ChrisCasciano * (+243) hCalendar -
tantek is Tantek Çelik and works on Technorati and develops microformats <http://microformats.org>
kingryan is ryan king
trovster is a web developer from the UK who writes on http://www.trovster.com and runs www.csslounge.co.uk
tantek is Tantek Çelik and works on Technorati and develops microformats <http://microformats.org>
bkdelong is B.K. DeLong, Head Research Analyst for HALO Worldwide - http://www.haloworldwide.com. Web: http://www.brain-stream.com. Email: bkdelong@pobox.com - Is At ApacheCon
bk, you still at ApacheCon?
apparently.
heh. I need to remember how to reprogram jibot.
?forget bkdelong is at ApacheCon
I did not know bkdelong was at ApacheCon
?forget bkdelong
I need at least 3 words with an 'is' in the middle
thanks.
?forgetme bkdelong
I have expunged tantek from my mind
hmm...
?def tantek is Tantek Çelik and works on Technorati and develops microformats <http://microformats.org>
tantek is Tantek --elik and works on Technorati and develops microformats <http://microformats.org>
sigh
?forgetme
I have expunged tantek from my mind
?forgetme
I have expunged bkdelong from my mind
?def bkdelong is B.K. DeLong, Head Research Analyst for HALO Worldwide - http://www.haloworldwide.com. Web: http://www.brain-stream.com. Email: bkdelong@pobox.com
bkdelong is B.K. DeLong, Head Research Analyst for HALO Worldwide - http://www.haloworldwide.com. Web: http://www.brain-stream.com. Email: bkdelong@pobox.com
Is there info on using jibot in the wiki?
?def tantek is Tantek <http://tantek.com> and works on Technorati and develops microformats <http://microformats.org>
tantek is Tantek <http://tantek.com> and works on Technorati and develops microformats <http://microformats.org>
?help
bkdelong, just type ?help by itself and jibot will help you out in a private message session
kee-doke.
?help
how do you pronounce letter Ç?
"suh"
the s in "soft"
interesting.
dglazkov, in the case of tantek's name, its not "suh," its "chuh"
really?
(turkish, not french)
that's fascinating
web dev
a few
you interested?
yeah
very
you have a resume online?
http://siliconllama.com/resume.txt
(there are a few minor modifications I don't believe have been uploaded)
very minor edits
bewest, while I certainly appreciate your interest in the technorati job, that discussion is probably more appropriate for the #technorati channel. thanks!
sure
[[to-do]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=to-do&diff=0&oldid=4167 * Tantek * (+164) community marks
[[resume-brainstorming]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=resume-brainstorming&diff=0&oldid=4168 * Tantek * (+47) Other Thoughts About Résumé Formats -
[[resume-formats]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=resume-formats&diff=0&oldid=4169 * Tantek * (+66) Resume Formats -
[[resume-brainstorming]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=resume-brainstorming&diff=0&oldid=4170 * Tantek * (+192) reorganize a bit, add links, brainstorming image
Anyone know any developers on LinkedIn? The resume format would be perfect for it.
don't forget guru.com publishes resumes as well
bkdelong, I think linkedin works with simplyhired, who are already working on the resume microformat stuff
but, yeah, they would be a great candidate
though, once we have a microformat, there'd be less need for putting all your details into their data silo
[[resume-formats]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=resume-formats&diff=0&oldid=4171 * Tantek * (-108)
I'm looking at OutPutThis as a possibility to cross-polinate Social Networks
[[resume-examples]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=resume-examples&diff=0&oldid=4172 * Tantek * (+222)
that'd be cool
Type once propagate everywhere.
[[resume-examples]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=resume-examples&diff=0&oldid=4173 * Tantek * (-53)
oreilly's job network/friendster/linkedin clone is out there two, though i'd have to log in and see exactly how and what they present
Well, updating all of them is a PITA - LinkedIn, Ryze, Friendster, Tribe, Orkut, Yahoo 360....
pnhChris: Where?
yeah, its much easier to just blog stuff :D
pnhChris, http://connection.oreilly.com/ ?
yeah, something like that
bewest, if you can find a link on guru.com to an actual resume, please add it to microformats.org/wiki/resume-examples
yeah.. taht one kingryan
not sure if its going anywhere.. kinda signed up and rarely went back
yeah, it doesn't seem to have any momentum yet
tantek: I believe those links are hidden behind authentication
guess the oreilly thing is still invite only
Are you looking for examples that are marked up already or ones to shoot for?
(pm me an email addy if anyone wants an invite to that thing)
I'm already in
Ditto
Wonder if Rael or someone would be willing to Microformat the fields
invite to what thing?
O'Reilly Connection
BenjaminCarlyle is http://soundadvice.id.au/blog/, GMT 1000
hmm /msg only works if you identify?
did kingryan or pnhChris get my earlier messages?
no i didn't see anything
still nothing?
?
maybe it's a gaim bug or something
maybe i saw your last two.. did you not see my replies?
no
(sent btw)
thanks
sorry for the repeated messages then
wow I like it
bkdelong is B.K. DeLong, Head Research Analyst for HALO Worldwide - http://www.haloworldwide.com. Web: http://www.brain-stream.com. Email: bkdelong@pobox.com
factoryjoe is Chris Messina, works for Flock, Bar Camp & Rhyzomatic & is working towards open source world domination & factorycityblug (http://factoryjoe.com/blog/) & looks like http://www.flickr.com/photos/dotben/70970770/
Nice idea for User Profiles, Chris
It can be applied at/to all those social networks out there.
er factoryjoe, I mean ;)
heh
;)
thx
yeah well i'm doing a project called rhyzomatic
which will be hcarded up the wazoo
but i need a way to link to one's photos...
i.e. rel=photos
or rel=tasklist (for 43things etc)
rel=favorites
ooh Flickr aps
btw, flickr will likely be getting totally hcarded soon
sweet
(among other things)
;)
(microformatted related)
right. fab
gunna be huge for flock
we'll be able to derive your address book from webpages *you visit*
wonder when we'll be able to search Google/Yahoo via fields
use extra fields to narrow search...etc
hmm
well, you'll be able to do it in flock first
on both your feeds (read and unread) and any pages you've visited
factoryjoe, what do you mean by "but i need a way to link to one's photos..."
Nice.....going to check Flock and Ryzomatic out.
class="url" gives you that in hCard
I don't think that's specific enough, though
and what about xfn's rel="me" ?
Unless you can qualify it with title or something
bk, why?
<a href="http://flickr.com/photos/ryansking" title="my photos" rel="me"/>my photos</a>
ah
seems sufficient to me
agreed
That seems more like it....unless Chris is thinking of something else.
it's not
sufficient
here's why
or are you (the in general you) proposing some sort of taxonomy of *types* of urls, like "my photos", "my blog", "my favorites" etc.?
tantek, correct
we'll use rel=me
then you're making a big mistake
and we'll use class=url
um?
because such a taxonomy is a design-rat-hole
no
or pit
yep
it quickly becomes obsolete
as if you could possibly document all types of urls
at a point in time
fine fine
ok
next year a new type comes out
that's true
i agree
yeah
but what's funny
is that XFN tries to define all relationship types
this is one of the most idiotic mistakes made inf F-O-A-F
they have separate fields for "homepage" and "blog"
no, it doesn't
there's no "baby mama," for example
as if you would want to actually create new *fields* in a format for different *types* of urls
really dumb
omg
ok, let's step back here
you don't even have the full use case
as usual, i don't care about the form of the solution, i just need a solution
so
with rhyzomatic, like suprglue
you can identify your various accounts
ryan is right
at various services
kingryan is right
XFN explicitly DIDNT try to define all relationship types
it went for the 80/20
it looks at a subset
and said "we're done"
yes
a lot of people have 1. photos 2. a blog (or two) 3. other places where they publish *specific types* of content
fortunately, human relationships are a fairly well-worn path
with rhyzo i need a way to ask a profile page "show me this person's photos"
it's highly unlikely that a new common human relationship type will be invented next year
or, if i'm on their flickr page "show me this person's blog(s)"
however, the same is not true of urls
tantek: i need to pull out specific types of data
if a webpage is to be our services' API, i need *some* specificity
why not keep your own registry then?
i don't want *all* URLs for a user
url domain <-> type of data
registry?
yeah
that's one method
just build in knowledge into the app
which we'd likely do anyway
however
that flickr.com/* means photos
etc.
tantek.com isn't a common blog URL like blogger.com
that way you avoid the whole taxonomy design problem
and i'd rather not have users be forced to define what content is on the other end explicitly
default it it to blog/home then
blog/home is like text/plain ?
since the web is HTML by default, ergo, hypertext, ergo, *TEXT*, it makes sense to default to that
the default can also be, uh, nothing
yeah
well again
if i have a greasemonkey script
that goes to rhyzomatic.com/user/tantek
and wants to get your photo URL
how should it find it?
it could have the knowledge built in
could use heuristics
or a semantic markup
yikes
well semantic markup... microformats?
wtf
i mean, isn't that what i'm asking for?
class="photos"
i don't really care much...
but that's not really right
but, I think tantek's point is that defining a microformat for different kinds of homepages is an open-ended task which will likely never be fully realizable
rel="me photos" seems more likely
no, no, no
haha
ok
there's miles of semantic markup before microformats
tell me then
miles, i like that
if you want to use class="photos" or rel="photolog" or whatever, go ahead
factoryjoe, the problem is with your question
but unless there's a finite, common use-case, there's no case for a microformat
"and wants to get your photo URL...how should it find it?"
"and wants to get your video URL...how should it find it?"
"and wants to get your favorites URL...how should it find it?"
ok
"and wants to get your podcast URL...how should it find it?"
"and wants to get your newfangled2007thing URL...how should it find it?"
tantek: right, ad infinitum
however
like with relationships
80/20
no
ha!
that's a false comparison
damnit!
we have millions of years of prior art with human relationships
and 15 with the web
as we do with art
people make videos, photos, writings, music
i can document back to the renaissance
and pave those cowpaths
my point is that behaviors on the web haven't converged to a point where you could extract an 80/20 which woudl be persistent
but somehow it seems like i'm still wrong wrong wrong
help me see the light here
kingryan: can we define what that 80% is?
all of your questions are about web-specific behaviors, which are mostly new within the last 5 years
i feel like you're saying no but that you're not allowing for that 80% to even be considered
sure, but there's no point in making a microformat of it
well
like I said, do semantic markup
no one's stopping you
build greasemonkey scripts on that markup
but micoroformats are about more than semantic markup or html as data
they're about standardizing on established, converged behaviors
ok
fair enough
is there a page on those miles of semantic markup?
i think i'm gunna blog that
there's entire books on it
this is fascinating stuff
:)
omg
and I just made that phrase up
and fyi, i like you guys and all and we're all friends so i can tell you that you seem a bit draconian in your approach
maybe it's coz you know me and you know i'm hard headed
:D
but if i were a n00b and less egocentric, man, i'd be crying to my mum right now
I push harder 'cause I know I need to
Well, the problem is if we don't keep to rigid, pre-existing schemas....
yeah, but we could at least be welcoming as we bitch slap n00bs
n00b's wouldn't be so hard headed
or, if they were, they'd be *completely* wrong
you're just kinda wrong, factoryjoe
true, they'd crumble under the glaring light of the microgods
sweet
that's better than usual
then the user agents and such won't implement all the standard
Like HTML and CSS. ;)
at least GFY is ending
you think they'll really quit?
microformatsarefat.wordpress.com
apparently
i read some post by the creator
saying he's bored
I'd believe it
yeah
hell, I get bored writing supr.c.ilio.us
yeah
i get bored living
i mean
wtf
*another day?!*
gah
i'll just go be snarky about some recent technology that i don't get but is worth bashing
I get bored of sleeping
i'm so bored of getting bored
hehehe
I'm getting bored of your boredom
plus, all the cool kids are 'disaffected,' not bored
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