That deserves an "Amen, Brother!" from me ...  :-)

Steven

On Thu, Feb 12, 2015 at 9:29 PM, John F Sowa <sowa@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

Dear David and Steven,

Re the word 'mathematician':  I used it only because I was repeating
the word that Alex had used.  The question about word usage is
irrelevant to the matter.

SEZ
> The confusion came from holding truth to be something in the world.

I agree that truth always involves language, either a natural
language or some version of logic.

SEZ
> Engineering is a fine profession and there is no shame in using the term

The idea of a value judgment that puts philosophers above people who
actually work for a living comes from Plato.  It was fueled by the fact
that only people who were independently wealthy could afford to spend
time debating metaphysics.  And it is reinforced by academics who want
an excuse for not being wealthy.

Aristotle was somewhat more balanced, since his father was a physician
who had to do empirical studies and messy work in treating sick people.
In any case, there are a lot of engineers who are as smart or smarter
than many so-called scientists.

In 19th c England, scientists were expected to be independently
wealthy.  Faraday was barred from the Royal Society because he had
to work for a living.

I have no sympathy for that attitude.

SEZ
> At which point does engineering become science?

Never!  Computer science, for example, is a branch of engineering
in most universities.  Anybody who writes a patent is an engineer.
The amount of mathematics they know or use is irrelevant.

John

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