> Eeeuuurrgghhhh! Well, I did warn that it was not pretty. The sort of hCard that might be found at goatse.cx perhaps. Using my own suggested alternative to the include pattern, it would be: <span id="b" class="sort-string">Beethoven</span>, <span class="fn n"> <span class="given-name">Ludwig</span> <span class="family-name #b">van </span> </span> http://microformats.org/wiki/include-pattern-strawman#Non- Verbose_Class-Based_Solution -- Toby A Inkster <mailto:mail at tobyinkster.co.uk> <http://tobyinkster.co.uk>