WS-Description Minutes March 27, 2003 - Draft for review

Hi, 
Below is my shot for today's minutes. I have to admit that I am a horrible scribe, please feel free to correct me if I missed or misinterpreted any of your key points. 
To avoid unnecessary traffic to the list, please send your comments directly to me by next Monday. I will incorporate any comments received, and send a revised version to the list next Tuesday.
Best Regards,
Kevin
---------------------------
WS-Description Minutes March 27, 2003
Attendances:
 Mike Ballantyne Electronic Data Systems
 David Booth W3C
 Roberto Chinnici Sun Microsystems
 Glen Daniels Macromedia
 Jacek Kopecky Systinet
 Sandeep Kumar Cisco Systems
 Philippe Le Hégaret W3C
 Amelia Lewis TIBCO
 Steve Lind AT&T
 Kevin Canyang Liu SAP
 Jonathan Marsh Chair (Microsoft)
 Ingo Melzer DaimlerChrysler
 Jeff Mischkinsky Oracle
 Dale Moberg Cyclone Commerce
 Arthur Ryman IBM
 Jeffrey Schlimmer Microsoft
 Igor Sedukhin Computer Associates
 Jerry Thrasher Lexmark
 William Vambenepe Hewlett-Packard
 Sanjiva Weerawarana IBM
 Umit Yalcinalp Oracle
 Prasad Yendluri webMethods, Inc.
Observers:
 Simon Genzer IONA Technologies
Regrets:
 Erik Ackerman Lexmark
 Allen Brookes Rogue Wave Software
 Youenn Fablet Canon
 Dietmar Gaertner Software AG
 Steve Graham Global Grid Forum
 Martin Gudgin Microsoft
 Tom Jordahl Macromedia
 Lily Liu webMethods
 Jean-Jacques Moreau Canon
 Don Mullen Tibco
----------------------------------------------------------
1. Assign scribe : Kevin Liu
2. Minutes from March 20 telecon approved.
3. Review of Action items [.1].
PENDING 2003”N01ŒŽ21“ú: Roberto and gudge to create a branch and work up
 a binding proposal based on referencing type
 systems directly from operation components.
 (Umit's example, Sanjiva's example, WSDL 1.1
 example, and others.)
DONE [.2] 2003”N01ŒŽ30“ú: Jacek to write up text on SOAP response MEP after
 Gudge and Jeffrey send their proposal for
 request/response MEP.
DONE [.4] 2003”N02ŒŽ13“ú: Arthur to propose improvements to the URL 
 replacement mechanism.
PENDING 2003”N02ŒŽ13“ú: Philippe to re-do HTTP bindings to allow 
 per-method operation names etc. Arthur to
 assist.
PENDING 2003”N02ŒŽ27“ú: Sanjiva to send summary of 
 one-portType-per-service issue.
PENDING 2003”N03ŒŽ04“ú: Editors to discuss markup for testable assertions
 in the spec and come back with a strategy.
PENDING 2003”N03ŒŽ04“ú: Jonathan to recruit a QA contact for the WG.
PENDING 2003”N03ŒŽ04“ú: Jonathan to recruit a test contact for the WG.
PENDING 2003”N03ŒŽ13“ú: Editors will find part 2 issues to dispatch 
 easily next telcon.
PENDING 2003”N03ŒŽ13“ú: Philippe will make a proposal concerning issue 
 28 using features and properties.
PENDING 2003”N03ŒŽ13“ú: GlenD to propose a Property representation of 
 SOAP action parameter of application/soap+xml
 type
PENDING 2003”N03ŒŽ13“ú: Don will write a proposal for annotating schema 
 with part information.
PENDING 2003”N03ŒŽ20“ú: Jonathan to slice and dice Amy's comments to 
 submit to the QA group's web form
PENDING 2003”N03ŒŽ20“ú: David Booth to investigate what it takes to get 
 a validator available as an official W3C entity 
DONE [.3] 2003”N03ŒŽ20“ú: Glen will comment to XMLP re: SOAPAction being 
 made a property and the crufty fallback we could
 resort to if they don't.
[.1] http://www.w3.org/2002/ws/desc/#actions <http://www.w3.org/2002/ws/desc/#actions> 
[.2] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-ws-desc/2003Mar/0034.html <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-ws-desc/2003Mar/0034.html> 
[.3] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-ws-desc/2003Mar/0035.html <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-ws-desc/2003Mar/0035.html> 
[.4] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-ws-desc/2003Mar/0059.html <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-ws-desc/2003Mar/0059.html> 
4. Admininstrivia:
 a. Welcome new member: Ingo Melzer from DaimlerChysler.
 b. Daylight savings time coming up: Europe Mar 30th, US Apr 6th.
 c. May FTF [.1].
	Jonathan: Is WG concerned about travel to France for the May F2F
	Philippe: The telecon bridge may be overloaded
	ACTION: dbooth to request registration page for May F2F
	ACTION: JM to raise F2F travel issue on the discussion list and potentially develop backup plans
 d. Sept FTF 
	still looking for West Coast host
 e. Usage Scenarios [.2]. 
	Jonathan is still pretending to track this.
 f. QA contact, test lead recruitment.
 g. XMLP response on use=encoded [.4]
	Jonathan: XMLP has no objection to dropping use attribute
 
 h. TAG issue abstractComponentRefs-37 [.5, .6]
	Jonathan: TAG agrees that we are abusing fragment syntax for URIs but will think about the right way to do it
[.1] http://www.w3.org/2003/ws/desc/3/05/f2fMayLogistics.htm <http://www.w3.org/2003/ws/desc/3/05/f2fMayLogistics.htm> 
[.2] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/w3c-ws-desc/2003Jan/0054.html <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/w3c-ws-desc/2003Jan/0054.html> 
[.3] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-archive/2003Mar/0040.html <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-archive/2003Mar/0040.html> 
[.4] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/w3c-ws-desc/2003Mar/0019.html <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/w3c-ws-desc/2003Mar/0019.html> 
[.5] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-tag/2003Mar/0060.html <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-tag/2003Mar/0060.html> 
[.6] http://www.w3.org/2003/03/24-tag-summary.html <http://www.w3.org/2003/03/24-tag-summary.html> 
5. New Issues. Merged issues list [.1].
[.1] http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/ws/desc/issues/wsd-issues.html <http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/ws/desc/issues/wsd-issues.html> 
 - Normativeness of our Schema [.2]
[.2] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-ws-desc/2003Mar/0045.html <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-ws-desc/2003Mar/0045.html> 
	Jonathan: Any reason why normative schema is not a good idea?
	Amy: in part definition, there is no way to spec something optional
	Amy: maybe we can define a schema that can describe inaccuracy, otherwise I will object using schema as the validator
	Philippe: who wins, the schema or the spec, when conflicts?
	Umit: schema is easier for validation
	Jonathan: if we add schema to the spec and add an editor notes?
	Davidb: it's a long way of saying schema is normative
	Reberto: schema and spec goes side by side
	Jonathan: let's take a straw poll. which should be the highest priority: the schema or the prose?
	<jeffsch> +1 to reducing prose to eliminate overlap with normative schema
	<jeffm> i vote for the schema being the ultimate authoritative source (of all knowledge ;-)
	Arthur: schema should be the first pass of validation
	* jeffsch hears Roberto asking for 'literate programming'
	* jeffsch ... or 'literate schema-ing'
	* Roberto_Chinnici rejecting literate schema-ing really
	Poll result: schema 17, prose 2, abstain 2
	Many stated that support for schema on condition that the prose can improve to reduce overlap/conflicts with schema
	ACTION: Jonathan will follow-up with editors to figure out how to improve the prose of the spec to be aligned with schema
 - Small language clarification in portType extension [.3]
[.3] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-ws-desc/2003Mar/0036.html <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-ws-desc/2003Mar/0036.html> 
	?? Noise in phone line, scribe missed the discussion
	Arthur: it's a non-issue
 - in-out/request-response MEPs and out-in 
	Jonathan: Sanjiva raised a questions [.4], 
	[.4] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-ws-desc/2003Mar/0049.html <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-ws-desc/2003Mar/0049.html> 
	if there's an in-out vs. request-response split, then shouldn't the same occur for the outbound case: out-in vs. solicit-response? 
	??Loud music flowed out from the phone line. Group was hunting for the "party lover". Discussion was disrupted by loud music and scribe missed the conversations 
6. Moving MIME Type Information to the Interface [.1]
[.1] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-ws-desc/2003Mar/0028.html <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-ws-desc/2003Mar/0028.html> 
	Jonathan: anything new on this?
	Jeffsch: yes
	Arthur: is it a soap proposal or a wsdl proposal?
	Jonathan: it should be part of the schema
	Many argued that mime type is not part of the schema and we cann't wait for schema to be changed
	<dmoberg> I like Arthur's proposal.
	<Philippe> <part name='image' type='xsd:hexBinary'/>
	Jonathan:there are two places that a binary data can appear: in the part level, or inside a complex type
	Jonathan: looking for a proposal to investigate more on this
	ACTION: Philippe write up a proposal for embedding binary data types in schema
	Arthur: the two approaches are not really exclusive
	Arthur: my proposal addresses the simple cases, maybe 80 percent
	?? Scribe missed Umit's question and the follow-up discussions, can somebody fill in this part of the discussion?
	Jeffsch: many confuse the difference b/t infoset and serialization 
	Arthur: is a question whether we just want one type system (schema) or we want to allow other type systems
	Jonathan: we definitely want to allow other systems
7. Patterns. 
	Dbooth: Patterns task force list: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-ws-desc-meps/2003Mar/ <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-ws-desc-meps/2003Mar/> 
	Jacekk: my action item is missing from the agenda, but I have sent a message to the list to relate the SOAP response MEPs to WSDL MEPs
	Jacekk message can be found: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-ws-desc/2003Mar/0034.html <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-ws-desc/2003Mar/0034.html> 
	Dbooth: posted a message to clarify the correspondences between our in-out patterns and MEPs, 
		message was posted to mep task force list
		http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-ws-desc-meps/2003Mar/0003.html <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-ws-desc-meps/2003Mar/0003.html> 
8. BindingType proposal from Kevin .Updated proposal at [.2].
[.2] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-ws-desc/2003Jan/0068.html <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-ws-desc/2003Jan/0068.html> 
	Jonathan: do we still have hard dependencies?
	Kevin: Was waiting for the binding component to be more stable. believe it's about time to settle down on this.
	Jonathan: will move this to top on agenda for next week. 
MEETING ADJOURNED
Summary of new ACTION items:
	ACTION: dbooth to request registration page for May F2F
	ACTION: JM to raise F2F travel issue on the discussion list and potentially develop backup plans
	ACTION: Jonathan will follow-up with editors to figure out how to improve the prose of the spec to be aligned with schema
	ACTION: philippe write up a proposal for embedding binary data types in schema
Best Regards, 
Kevin