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XEmacs-Design March 2005

xemacs-design@xemacs.org
  • 4 participants
  • 5 discussions
Career opportunity 20 years, 8 months

Aryan LINDSEY
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Redisplay with server-side X11 and Unicode internally. 20 years, 8 months

Aidan Kehoe
[Posting this here in case I forget] Perhaps this was obvious to everyone else, but it occurs to me that once we have an internal encoding based on the UCS, we can leverage Ben’s work with the existing Unicode coding systems, which convert between Unicode and the Mule coding, for redisplay with server-side X11 fonts. Simply convert to the Mule encoding before using the existing redisplay code, much as the Xft and Windows code presently converts to Unicode before redisplay. -- "I, for instance, am gung-ho about open source because my family is being held hostage in Rob Malda’s basement. But who fact-checks me, or Enderle, when we say something in public? No-one!" -- Danny O’Brien
  • 3 participants
  • 2 comments
Aside: Behaviors [was: Framework to change dumped ...] 20 years, 8 months

Stephen J. Turnbull
Reply-To/MFT set. >>>>> "APA" == Adrian Aichner <adrian(a)xemacs.org> writes: APA> are you aware of APA> (info "(xemacs)Behaviors") We need to discuss Ben's behavior implementation. IMHO, the "behavior mechanism" should not be user-visible at all! Rather it should be described as "global minor modes" (as we already do with font-lock, for example). I think it's an important enhancement to the idea of minor mode, and should be described as such. (And it's _not_ an "interface to packages" at all, not all packages supply minor modes, and some that do actually have a completely different main purpose.) I don't think it's possible to distinguish between behaviors and minor modes in general. Also, while the behavior mechanism is worth having now, we really should make a priority of integrating the behavior definition functionality into define-minor-mode (which would then become actually worth having, instead of being yet another GNU compatibility irritant). -- School of Systems and Information Engineering http://turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp University of Tsukuba Tennodai 1-1-1 Tsukuba 305-8573 JAPAN Ask not how you can "do" free software business; ask what your business can "do for" free software.
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Re: [Q] (RFC) Framework to change dumped defaults on package presence; default mailer to VM if possible. 20 years, 8 months

Stephen J. Turnbull
Let's take this to xemacs-design. Reply-To and M-F-T set. Aidan> Ar an tríú lá is fiche de mí Márta, scríobh Steve Youngs: >> > (t > (if (eq mail-user-agent 'xemacs-default-user-agent) > >> (setq mail-user-agent 'vm-user-agent))) > (apply (get >> 'sendmail-user-agent 'composefunc) args))) >> >> Wanna know where this breaks down? With Sumo installers who >> don't like VM. Aidan> [That last setq should have been (setq mail-user-agent Aidan> 'sendmail-user-agent) . ] Aidan> So, let’s say they have a new account on a remote machine, Aidan> they fire up XEmacs with an empty ~/.xemacs/init.el, they Aidan> type C-x m, and they have the same behaviour that they had Aidan> in the past, It doesn't work that way in practice. VM is pretty robust because Kyle is so conservative, but large packages do break. Aidan> but with the possibility of attaching files Aidan> and having sane treatment of non-ASCII characters. The VM Aidan> mail composition _is_ the sendmail.el composition function, Aidan> _but with MIME._ Extra features also upset beginning users. Sane treatment of non-ASCII characters is not yet really supported in XEmacs, and specifically not in vanilla VM. Granted, VM is a huge step forward over sendmail-user-agent, and it really _should_ be available and recommended. But we can't force it to be available, and although I think we should default to it when available, the user should have the option to use something else. >> Getting back to mail-user-agent... IMO the default in XEmacs >> should be _very very_ basic, no bells or whistles, and >> definitely no need for MIME. Aidan> I respectfully disagree. MIME is not a bell or a whistle. That is true, but only so far as "Content-Type: text/plain; charset=something-the-user-can-actually-write-in" is not otherwise supported. Attachments etc _are_ bells and whistles. And since what is needed in _core_ is the ability to send build and bug reports, it is arguable that even MIME charset support is unnecessary. > If the user wants bells and whistles, they'll install something > like VM, Gnus, MH-E. > Now what would be cool is if the first time mail-user-agent is needed > and it has not been set... > > Pop up a small help buffer saying something like: > > You have the following XEmacs MUA's installed: > > 1 - Gnus -- The Gnus Newsreader and Mailreader. > 2 - MH-E -- The XEmacs Interface to the MH Mail System. > 3 - VM -- An Emacs mailer. Add Default - Builtin, ASCII-only, no-frills mailer. People sometimes get confused if you leave the default implicit. I also think that instead of the package blurbs, we should use something more descriptive and meaningful to novices: You have the following XEmacs MUAs installed: Default -- Builtin, ASCII-text-only, no-frills mailer. (Suitable for bug reports.) 1 - Gnus -- Advanced MUA with powerful mail and netnews features. 2 - MH-E -- Powerful mail processing system. (Depends on separate, properly configured MH installation.) 3 - VM -- Easy to use, full-featured mailer. (NB, for ease of comparison I'm following Steve's outline here, I really think default should be VM, with the other MUAs ordered Gnus, MH-E, builtin.) > > Which do you want to use as your default mailer? (press num to > select MUA or RET to use the built-in basic mailer) > > Then ask the user if they want this selection just for this session or > for all eternity. :-) Aidan> I respectfully disagree. People have better things to do Aidan> than choose among alternatives they neither know nor care Aidan> about when they’re learning a new working environment. This is the appropriate way to think about it, but I think that Steve is right, because people _do_ care about the MUA. If our default mailer could be Outhouse Excess compatible, that would be one thing. But it can't (and you don't know how that relieves my mind!) Furthermore, we already have the facility (novice.el) built-in, custom already works this way, etc. It's not like new users can avoid such choices until they reach Reviewer status! Like it or not, such choices are part of the XEmacs working environment for the foreseeable future. Aidan> And MH-E shouldn’t be in that list unless the mhparam Aidan> command is available, which it won’t be. Unless the user is already an MH user. Anyway, (shell-command "which mhparam") :-) -- School of Systems and Information Engineering http://turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp University of Tsukuba Tennodai 1-1-1 Tsukuba 305-8573 JAPAN Ask not how you can "do" free software business; ask what your business can "do for" free software.
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Not answering mail 20 years, 8 months

via the vacation program
I will be away from Salt Lake City from Thursday 03 March 2005 until Monday 28 March 2005 Your mail regarding "Status" will be read when I return. Because of my very heavy mail volume, responses may be delayed by weeks, or may prove impossible if your message requires more time time than I can afford.
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