[Python-Dev] PEP 215 redux: toward a simplified consensus?

2002年2月25日 17:16:18 -0500

>>>>> "SM" == Skip Montanaro <skip@pobox.com> writes:

 BAW> There's been no usability testing yet to know whether
 BAW> $-strings actually will be easier to use <wink>, but I've got
 BAW> plenty of anecdotal evidence that %-strings suck badly for
 BAW> useability by non-Python programmers.
 SM> I presume your anecdotal evidence comes from Mailman.
Correct.

 SM> If you have a pair of functions that implement the %-to-$-to-%
 SM> transformation and can catch the missing 's' problem
 SM> automatically (is that the biggest problem non- programmers
 SM> have?),
The biggest, yes, but not necessarily the only one.

 SM> then why not just use this in Mailman and be done with the
 SM> problem?
That's what I plan on doing for MM2.1, except I won't force it down
people's throats yet. It'll be optional (but it'll be an either-or
option). I won't use it in Python code yet though (too disruptive),
just the thru-the-web template defining text-boxes.

 SM> In fact, why not just document Mailman so that "%(var)" is the
 SM> correct form and silently add the "missing" 's' in your
 SM> transformation step?
 SM> That %-strings suck for Mailman administrators does not mean
 SM> they necessarily suck for programmers.
True, but who knows? I wouldn't necessarily classify python-dev as a
representative sample of users.

 SM> The two populations obviously overlap somewhat, but not
 SM> tremendously. I have never had a problem with %-strings,
 SM> certainly not with omitting the trailing 's'. Past experience
 SM> with printf() doesn't obviously pollute the sample population
 SM> too much either, since the %(var)s type of format is not
 SM> supported by printf().
 BAW> Still, if $-strings are better for non-programmers, maybe
 BAW> they're better for programmers too. There's certainly
 BAW> evidence that translators get them wrong too.
 SM> What do you mean by "translators"?
Someone who is fluent in a natural language other than English, and
translates a catalog of English source strings to a target non-English
natural language. E.g.
 "No such list: %(listname)s" -> "Non esiste la lista: %(listname)s"
-Barry