Re: [Python-Dev] Bytes path support
Nick Coghlan :> Python 3 says it's *our* problem to deal with on behalf of our> developers. http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0120623/quotes?item=qt0353406> Flik: I was just trying to help. Mr. Soil: Then help us; *don't* help us. Marko ___ Pyth
Re: [Python-Dev] Bytes path support
Chris Barker - NOAA Federal writes: > This brings up the other key problem. If file names are (almost) > arbitrary bytes, how do you write one to/read one from a text file > with a particular encoding? ( or for that matter display it on a > terminal) "Very carefully." But this is strictly fr
Re: [Python-Dev] Bytes path support
On Thu, Aug 21, 2014 at 05:30:14PM -0700, Chris Barker - NOAA Federal wrote:> This brings up the other key problem. If file names are (almost)> arbitrary bytes, how do you write one to/read one from a text file> with a particular encoding? ( or for that matter display it on a> terminal) T
Re: [Python-Dev] https:bugs.python.org -- Untrusted Connection (Firefox)
On 8/21/2014 7:25 PM, Nick Coghlan wrote: On 22 Aug 2014 04:45, "Benjamin Peterson" mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: > > Perhaps some board members could comment, but I hope the PSF could just > pay a few hundred a year for a proper certificate. That's exactly what we're doing - MAL remin
Re: [Python-Dev] Bytes path support
> Does Unix even support UTF-16 as an encoding? I suppose, these days, it > probably does, for reading contents of files created on Windows, etc. I don't think Unix supports any encodings at all for the _contents_ of files -- that's up to applications. Of course the command line text processing t
Re: [Python-Dev] Bytes path support
On Thu, Aug 21, 2014 at 05:00:02PM -0700, Glenn Linderman wrote:> On 8/21/2014 3:42 PM, Paul Moore wrote:>>I wonder how badly a Unix system would break if you specified UTF16 as>>the system encoding...?> > Does Unix even support UTF-16 as an encoding? As an encoding of file's content?
Re: [Python-Dev] Bytes path support
On 8/21/2014 3:54 PM, Antoine Pitrou wrote: Le 21/08/2014 18:27, Cameron Simpson a écrit : As remarked, codes 0 (NUL) and 47 (ASCII slash code) _are_ special to UNIX filename bytes strings. So you admit that POSIX mandates that file paths are expressed in an ASCII-compatible encoding after a
Re: [Python-Dev] Bytes path support
On 8/21/2014 3:42 PM, Paul Moore wrote: I wonder how badly a Unix system would break if you specified UTF16 as the system encoding...? Paul Does Unix even support UTF-16 as an encoding? I suppose, these days, it probably does, for reading contents of files created on Windows, etc. (Unicode wa
Re: [Python-Dev] Bytes path support
On 22 Aug 2014 09:24, "Isaac Morland" wrote:> I think the real tension here is between the POSIX level where filenames are byte strings (except for \x00, which is reserved for string termination) where \x2F has special interpretation, and absolutely every application ever written, in every langua
Re: [Python-Dev] https:bugs.python.org -- Untrusted Connection (Firefox)
On 22 Aug 2014 04:45, "Benjamin Peterson" wrote:>> Perhaps some board members could comment, but I hope the PSF could just> pay a few hundred a year for a proper certificate. That's exactly what we're doing - MAL reminded me we reached the same conclusion last time this came up, we'll just tra
Re: [Python-Dev] Bytes path support
On 2014年8月21日, Chris Barker wrote: so they are "just byte strings", oh, except that you can't have a null, and the "slash" had better be code 47 (and vice versa). How is that different than "bytes-in-some-arbitrary-encoding-where-at-least the-slash-character-is-ascii-compatible"? Actual
Re: [Python-Dev] Bytes path support
Le 21/08/2014 18:27, Cameron Simpson a écrit : As remarked, codes 0 (NUL) and 47 (ASCII slash code) _are_ special to UNIX filename bytes strings. So you admit that POSIX mandates that file paths are expressed in an ASCII-compatible encoding after all? Good. I've nothing to add to your rant.
Re: [Python-Dev] Bytes path support
On 21 August 2014 23:27, Cameron Simpson wrote:> That's not "ASCII compatible". That's "not all byte codes can be freely used> without thought", and any multibyte coding will have to consider such things> when embedding itself in another coding scheme. I wonder how badly a Unix system would br
Re: [Python-Dev] Bytes path support
On Wed, Aug 20, 2014 at 9:52 PM, Cameron Simpson wrote:> On 20Aug2014 16:04, Chris Barker - NOAA Federal > wrote:>>>> So really, people treat them as>>>>> "bytes-in-some-arbitrary-encoding-where-at-least the-slash-character-(and>> maybe a couple others)-is-ascii-compatible">>>> As so
Re: [Python-Dev] Bytes path support
On 21Aug2014 09:20, Antoine Pitrou wrote: Le 21/08/2014 00:52, Cameron Simpson a écrit : The "bytes in some arbitrary encoding where at least the slash character (and maybe a couple others) is ascii compatible" notion is completely bogus. There's only one special byte, the slash (code 47). Ther
Re: [Python-Dev] https:bugs.python.org -- Untrusted Connection (Firefox)
On 8/21/2014 10:41 AM, Armin Rigo wrote: Hi, On 18 August 2014 22:30, Oleg Broytman wrote: Aha, I see now -- the signing certificate is CAcert, which I've installed manually. I don't suppose anyone is particularly annoyed by this fact? I noticed the issue, and started this thread, beca
Re: [Python-Dev] https:bugs.python.org -- Untrusted Connection (Firefox)
On Thu, Aug 21, 2014, at 09:48, Ryan Hiebert wrote:> >> On Aug 21, 2014, at 11:29 AM, Martin v. Löwis wrote:>> >> Am 21.08.14 17:44, schrieb Nick Coghlan:>>> I've now raised this issue with the infrastructure team. The current>>> hosting arrangements for bugs.python.org were put in plac
Re: [Python-Dev] Bytes path support
Marko Rauhamaa writes: > My point is that the poor programmer cannot ignore the possibility of > "funny" character sets. *Poor* programmers do it all the time. That's why Python codecs raise when they encounter bytes they can't handle. > If Python tried to protect the programmer from that po
Re: [Python-Dev] https:bugs.python.org -- Untrusted Connection (Firefox)
> On Aug 21, 2014, at 11:29 AM, Martin v. Löwis wrote:> > Am 21.08.14 17:44, schrieb Nick Coghlan:>> I've now raised this issue with the infrastructure team. The current>> hosting arrangements for bugs.python.org were put in place when the>> PSF didn't have any on-call system administrators
Re: [Python-Dev] https:bugs.python.org -- Untrusted Connection (Firefox)
Am 21.08.14 17:44, schrieb Nick Coghlan:> I've now raised this issue with the infrastructure team. The current> hosting arrangements for bugs.python.org were put in place when the> PSF didn't have any on-call system administrators of its own, but now> that we do, it may be time to migrate that
Re: [Python-Dev] https:bugs.python.org -- Untrusted Connection (Firefox)
On 22 August 2014 00:41, Armin Rigo wrote:> Hi,>> On 18 August 2014 22:30, Oleg Broytman wrote:>>Aha, I see now -- the signing certificate is CAcert, which I've>> installed manually.>> I don't suppose anyone is particularly annoyed by this fact? I know> for sure two classes of people
Re: [Python-Dev] https:bugs.python.org -- Untrusted Connection (Firefox)
Hi, On 18 August 2014 22:30, Oleg Broytman wrote:>Aha, I see now -- the signing certificate is CAcert, which I've> installed manually. I don't suppose anyone is particularly annoyed by this fact? I know for sure two classes of people that will never click "Ignore". The first one is peopl
Re: [Python-Dev] Bytes path support
On 22 August 2014 00:12, Nick Coghlan wrote:> On 21 August 2014 23:58, Marko Rauhamaa wrote:>>>> My point is that the poor programmer cannot ignore the possibility of>> "funny" character sets. If Python tried to protect the programmer from>> that possibility, the result might be even more in
Re: [Python-Dev] Bytes path support
On 21 August 2014 23:58, Marko Rauhamaa wrote:>> My point is that the poor programmer cannot ignore the possibility of> "funny" character sets. If Python tried to protect the programmer from> that possibility, the result might be even more intractable: how to act> on a file with an non-UTF-8
Re: [Python-Dev] Bytes path support
"Martin v. Löwis" :> I think the people defending the "Unix file names are just bytes" side> often miss an important detail: displaying file names to the user, and> allowing the user to enter file names. The user interface is a real issue and needs to be addressed. It is separate from the OS i
Re: [Python-Dev] Bytes path support
Le 21/08/2014 00:52, Cameron Simpson a écrit : The "bytes in some arbitrary encoding where at least the slash character (and maybe a couple others) is ascii compatible" notion is completely bogus. There's only one special byte, the slash (code 47). There's no OS-level need that it or anything e
Re: [Python-Dev] Bytes path support
On 21 August 2014 14:52, Cameron Simpson wrote:>> Oh, and I reject Nick's characterisation of POSIX as "broken". It's> perfectly internally consistent. It just doesn't match what he wants.> (Indeed, what I want, and I'm a long time UNIX fanboy.) The part that is broken is the idea that locale
Re: [Python-Dev] Bytes path support
Am 19.08.14 19:43, schrieb Ben Hoyt: The official policy is that we want them [support for bytes paths in stdlib functions] to go away, but reality so far has not budged. We will continue to hold our breath though. :-)>>>>>> Does that mean that new APIs should explicitly not supp
Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 4000 to explicitly declare we won't be doing a Py3k style compatibility break again?
Am 18.08.14 08:45, schrieb Nick Coghlan:> It's certainly the one that has caused the most churn in CPython and> the standard library - the ripples still haven't entirely settled on> that front :) For people porting their libraries and applications, the challenge is often even bigger: they need
Re: [Python-Dev] Bytes path support
On 21 August 2014 12:16, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote:> Nick Coghlan writes:>>> One idea I had along those lines is a surrogatereplace error handler (>> http://bugs.python.org/issue22016) that emitted an ASCII question mark for>> each smuggled byte, rather than propagating the encoding pro
Re: [Python-Dev] Bytes path support
Hi! On Thu, Aug 21, 2014 at 02:52:19PM +1000, Cameron Simpson wrote:> Oh, and I reject Nick's characterisation of POSIX as "broken". It's> perfectly internally consistent. It just doesn't match what he> wants. (Indeed, what I want, and I'm a long time UNIX fanboy.)> > Cheers,> Cameron Simp
Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 4000 to explicitly declare we won't be doing a Py3k style compatibility break again?
On 8/20/2014 8:27 PM, Joseph Martinot-Lagarde wrote: The pain was even bigger because in addition to the change in underlying types, the names of the types were not compatible between the python versions. I often try to write compatible code between python2 and 3, and I can't use "str" because i