Re: [Python-Dev] [Python-checkins] cpython (3.3): Issue #19092 - Raise a correct exception when cgi.FieldStorage is given an

On 12 January 2014 16:22, senthil.kumaran wrote:> summary:> Issue #19092 - Raise a correct exception when cgi.FieldStorage is given an> invalid file-obj. Also use __bool__ to determine the bool of the FieldStorage> object.> Library> --->> +- Issue #19097: Raise the correct Excepti

Re: [Python-Dev] RFC: PEP 460: Add bytes % args and bytes.format(args) to Python 3.5

On 12 January 2014 04:38, R. David Murray wrote:> But! Our goal should be to help people convert to Python3. So how can> we find out what the specific problems are that real-world programs are> facing, look at the *actual code*, and help that project figure out the> best way to make that cod

Re: [Python-Dev] RFC: PEP 460: Add bytes % args and bytes.format(args) to Python 3.5

On 12 January 2014 02:33, M.-A. Lemburg wrote:> On 11.01.2014 16:34, Nick Coghlan wrote:>> While that was an *expedient* (and, in fact, necessary) solution at>> the time, the fact it is still thoroughly confusing people 13 years>> later shows it is not a *comprehensible* solution.>> FWIW: I

Re: [Python-Dev] test.support.check_warnings

On 01/11/2014 05:37 PM, Brett Cannon wrote: You're assuming the context manager is doing something magical to verify that all calls in the block raise the expected exception. What you want to do is execute it in a loop:: for test in (...): with support.check_warnings(("automatic int co

Re: [Python-Dev] cpython (3.3): Update Sphinx toolchain.

Am 11.01.2014 21:11, schrieb Terry Reedy:> On 1/11/2014 2:04 PM, georg.brandl wrote:>> http://hg.python.org/cpython/rev/87bdee4d633a>> changeset: 88413:87bdee4d633a>> branch: 3.3>> parent: 88410:05e84d3ecd1e>> user:Georg Brandl >> date:Sat Jan 11 20:04:19 2014 +01

Re: [Python-Dev] byteformat() proposal: please critique

On 12 January 2014 12:13, Brett Cannon wrote:> With that flexibility this matches what I have been mulling in the back of> my head all day. Basically everything that goes in is assumed to be bytes> unless {:s} says to expect something which can be passed to str() and then> use some specified e

Re: [Python-Dev] RFC: PEP 460: Add bytes % args and bytes.format(args) to Python 3.5

On 01/11/2014 06:29 PM, Steven D'Aprano wrote: On Sat, Jan 11, 2014 at 11:05:36AM -0800, Ethan Furman wrote: On 01/11/2014 10:36 AM, Steven D'Aprano wrote: On Sat, Jan 11, 2014 at 08:20:27AM -0800, Ethan Furman wrote: unicode to bytes bytes to unicode using latin1 unicode to bytes

Re: [Python-Dev] Changing Clinic's output

On 01/08/2014 07:08 AM, Barry Warsaw wrote: How hard would it be to put together some sample branches that provide concrete examples of the various options? My own opinion could easily be influenced by having some hands-on time with actual code, and I suspect even Guido could be influenced if h

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 460: allowing %d and %f and mojibake

On 12 Jan 2014 03:44, "Victor Stinner" wrote:>> Hi,>> I'm in favor of adding support of formatting integer and floatting> point numbers in the PEP 460: %d, %u, %o, %x, %f with padding and> precision (%10d, %010d, %1.5f) and sign (%-i, %+i) but without> alternate format ("{:#x}"). %s would a

Re: [Python-Dev] RFC: PEP 460: Add bytes % args and bytes.format(args) to Python 3.5

On 12 Jan 2014 03:29, "Ethan Furman" wrote:>> On 01/11/2014 12:43 AM, Nick Coghlan wrote:>>>>>> In particular, the bytes type is, and always will be, designed for>> pure binary manipulation [...]>>> I apologize for being blunt, but this is a lie.>> Lets take a look at the methods define

Re: [Python-Dev] byteformat() proposal: please critique

On 01/11/2014 05:20 PM, Terry Reedy wrote: The following function . . . Thanks, Terry, for doing that. -- ~Ethan~ ___ Python-Dev mailing list [email protected] https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.

Re: [Python-Dev] RFC: PEP 460: Add bytes % args and bytes.format(args) to Python 3.5

On Sat, Jan 11, 2014 at 11:05:36AM -0800, Ethan Furman wrote:> On 01/11/2014 10:36 AM, Steven D'Aprano wrote:>>On Sat, Jan 11, 2014 at 08:20:27AM -0800, Ethan Furman wrote:>>>>>> unicode to bytes>>> bytes to unicode using latin1>>> unicode to bytes>>>>Where do you get this from

Re: [Python-Dev] byteformat() proposal: please critique

On Sat, Jan 11, 2014 at 8:20 PM, Terry Reedy wrote:> The following function interpolates bytes, bytearrays, and formatted> strings, the latter two auto-converted to bytes, into a bytes (or> auto-converted bytearray) format. This function automates much of what some> people have recommended fo

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 460: allowing %d and %f and mojibake

No, I don't think it is. The purpose is to make it easier to work with bytes objects. There can be no python 2 compatibility when it comes to bytes/unicode conversion. From: Python-Dev [[email protected]] on behalf of Se

Re: [Python-Dev] RFC: PEP 460: Add bytes % args and bytes.format(args) to Python 3.5

On 11Jan2014 13:15, Juraj Sukop wrote:> On Sat, Jan 11, 2014 at 5:14 AM, Cameron Simpson wrote:>> data = b' '.join( bytify( [ 10, 0, obj, binary_image_data, ... ] ) )> > Thanks for the suggestion! The problem with "bytify" is that some items> might require different formatting than other

Re: [Python-Dev] test.support.check_warnings

On Sat, Jan 11, 2014 at 3:45 PM, Ethan Furman wrote:> The docs say this [1]:> ==> test.support.check_warnings(*filters, quiet=True)>> A convenience wrapper for warnings.catch_warnings() that makes it> easier to test that a warning

Re: [Python-Dev] RFC: PEP 460: Add bytes % args and bytes.format(args) to Python 3.5

On Sat, Jan 11, 2014 at 08:13:39PM -0200, Mariano Reingart wrote:> AFAIK (and just for the record), there could be both Latin1 text and UTF-16> in a PDF (and other encodings too), depending on the font used: [...]> In Python2, txt is just a str, but in Python3 handling everything as latin1> st

Re: [Python-Dev] RFC: PEP 460: Add bytes % args and bytes.format(args) to Python 3.5

On Sat, Jan 11, 2014 at 04:28:34PM -0500, Terry Reedy wrote:> The problem with some criticisms of using 'unicode in Python 3' is that > there really is no such thing. Unicode in 3.0 to 3.2 used the old > internal model inherited from 2.x. Unicode in 3.3+ uses a different > internal model that

[Python-Dev] byteformat() proposal: please critique

The following function interpolates bytes, bytearrays, and formatted strings, the latter two auto-converted to bytes, into a bytes (or auto-converted bytearray) format. This function automates much of what some people have recommended for combining ascii text and binary blogs. The test passes o

Re: [Python-Dev] RFC: PEP 460: Add bytes % args and bytes.format(args) to Python 3.5

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On 2014年01月11日, 18:09 GMT, you wrote:>> We are NOT going back to the confusing incoherent mess that >> is the Python 2 model of bolting Unicode onto the side of >> POSIX . . .>> We are not asking for that. Yes, you do. Maybe not you personally, bu

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 460: allowing %d and %f and mojibake

On 1/11/2014 1:50 PM, Ethan Furman wrote: Perhaps that's the problem. According to the docs: object.__bytes__(self) Called by bytes() to compute a byte-string representation of an object. This should return a bytes o

Re: [Python-Dev] RFC: PEP 460: Add bytes % args and bytes.format(args) to Python 3.5

On Sat, Jan 11, 2014 at 07:22:30PM +, MRAB wrote:>>with open("outfile.pdf", "w", encoding="latin-1") as f:>> f.write(pdf)>>> [snip]> The second example won't work because you're forgetting about the> handling of line endings in text mode. So I did! Thank you for the correction.

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 460: allowing %d and %f and mojibake

Hi, 2014年1月11日 Antoine Pitrou :>> b'x=%s' % 10 is well defined, it's pure bytes.>> It is well-defined? Then please explain me what the general case of> b'%s' % x> is supposed to call:>> - does it call x.__bytes__? int.__bytes__ doesn't exist> - does it call bytes(x)? bytes(10) gives> b

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 460: allowing %d and %f and mojibake

2014年1月11日 Ethan Furman :>>> b'x=%s' % 10 is well defined, it's pure bytes.>>>> It is well-defined? Then please explain me what the general case of>>b'%s' % x>> is supposed to call:>> This is the key question, isn't it? Python 2 and Python 3 are very different here. In Python 2, the "s"

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 460: allowing %d and %f and mojibake

On 01/11/2014 10:32 AM, Antoine Pitrou wrote: On 2014年1月11日 18:41:49 +0100 Victor Stinner wrote: b'x=%s' % 10 is well defined, it's pure bytes. It is well-defined? Then please explain me what the general case of b'%s' % x is supposed to call: This is the key question, isn't it?

Re: [Python-Dev] RFC: PEP 460: Add bytes % args and bytes.format(args) to Python 3.5

On Fri, Jan 10, 2014 at 9:13 PM, Juraj Sukop wrote:>>>> On Sat, Jan 11, 2014 at 12:49 AM, Antoine Pitrou wrote:>>> Also, when you say you've never encountered UTF-16 text in PDFs, it>> sounds like those people who've never encountered any non-ASCII data in>> their programs.>>> Let me

[Python-Dev] test.support.check_warnings

The docs say this [1]: == test.support.check_warnings(*filters, quiet=True) A convenience wrapper for warnings.catch_warnings() that makes it easier to test that a warning was correctly raised. It is approximately equivalent to calling

Re: [Python-Dev] RFC: PEP 460: Add bytes % args and bytes.format(args) to Python 3.5

On 01/11/2014 12:45 PM, Donald Stufft wrote: FWIW as one of the people who it took Python3 to finally figure out how to actually use unicode, it was the absence of encode on bytes and decode on str that actually did it. Giving bytes a format method would not have affected that either way I don’t

Re: [Python-Dev] RFC: PEP 460: Add bytes % args and bytes.format(args) to Python 3.5

On Sat, Jan 11, 2014 at 4:28 PM, Terry Reedy wrote:> On 1/11/2014 1:44 PM, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote:>>> We already *have* a type in Python 3.3 that provides text>> manipulations on arrays of 8-bit objects: str (per PEP 393).>>>>> BTW: I don't know why so many people keep asking for use c

Re: [Python-Dev] RFC: PEP 460: Add bytes % args and bytes.format(args) to Python 3.5

On 1/11/2014 1:44 PM, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote: We already *have* a type in Python 3.3 that provides text manipulations on arrays of 8-bit objects: str (per PEP 393). > BTW: I don't know why so many people keep asking for use cases. > Isn't it obvious that text data without known (but ASCI

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 460: allowing %d and %f and mojibake

Am 11.01.2014 22:01, schrieb Serhiy Storchaka:> 11.01.14 21:40, Kristján Valur Jónsson написав(ла):>> How about a compromise?>> Personally, I think adding the full complement of integer/float formatting >> to bytes is a bit over the top.>> How about just supporting two format specifiers?>> %b

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 460: allowing %d and %f and mojibake

11.01.14 21:40, Kristján Valur Jónsson написав(ла): How about a compromise? Personally, I think adding the full complement of integer/float formatting to bytes is a bit over the top. How about just supporting two format specifiers? %b : interpolate a bytes object. If it doesn't have the buffer

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 460: allowing %d and %f and mojibake

Am 11.01.2014 20:22, schrieb Antoine Pitrou:> On 2014年1月11日 10:38:01 -0800> Ethan Furman wrote:>> On 01/11/2014 10:32 AM, Antoine Pitrou wrote:>>> On 2014年1月11日 18:41:49 +0100>>> Victor Stinner wrote:>>>>>>>> If you agree, I will modify the PEP. If Antoine disagree, I will

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 460: allowing %d and %f and mojibake

On 01/11/2014 11:22 AM, Antoine Pitrou wrote: On 2014年1月11日 10:38:01 -0800 Ethan Furman wrote: On 01/11/2014 10:32 AM, Antoine Pitrou wrote: On 2014年1月11日 18:41:49 +0100 Victor Stinner wrote: If you agree, I will modify the PEP. If Antoine disagree, I will fork the PEP 460 ;-)

Re: [Python-Dev] RFC: PEP 460: Add bytes % args and bytes.format(args) to Python 3.5

On Jan 11, 2014, at 10:34 AM, Nick Coghlan wrote:> Yes, it bloody well does. The number of people who have told me that> using Python 3 is what allowed them to finally understand how Unicode> works vastly exceeds the number of wire protocol and file format devs> that have complained about wo

Re: [Python-Dev] RFC: PEP 460: Add bytes % args and bytes.format(args) to Python 3.5

On 2014年1月11日 11:54:26 -0800, Ethan Furman wrote:> On 01/11/2014 11:49 AM, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote:>> MRAB writes:>>>>>> with open("outfile.pdf", "w", encoding="latin-1") as f:>>>> f.write(pdf)>>>>>>> [snip]>>> The second example won't work because you

Re: [Python-Dev] RFC: PEP 460: Add bytes % args and bytes.format(args) to Python 3.5

On 01/11/2014 11:49 AM, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote: MRAB writes: >> with open("outfile.pdf", "w", encoding="latin-1") as f: >> f.write(pdf) >> > [snip] > The second example won't work because you're forgetting about the > handling of line endings in text mode. Not so fast! F

Re: [Python-Dev] RFC: PEP 460: Add bytes % args and bytes.format(args) to Python 3.5

MRAB writes: >> with open("outfile.pdf", "w", encoding="latin-1") as f: >> f.write(pdf) >> > [snip] > The second example won't work because you're forgetting about the > handling of line endings in text mode. Not so fast! Forgot, yes (me too!), but not work? Not quite: with o

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 460: allowing %d and %f and mojibake

On Jan 11, 2014, at 10:38 AM, Ethan Furman wrote:>You've already stated you don't care that much and are willing to let the PEP>as-is be rejected. Why not remove your name and let Victor have it back? Is>he not the original author? (If this is protocol just say so -- remember I'm>still new

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 460: allowing %d and %f and mojibake

Hi there. How about a compromise? Personally, I think adding the full complement of integer/float formatting to bytes is a bit over the top. How about just supporting two format specifiers? %b : interpolate a bytes object. If it doesn't have the buffer interface, error. %s : interpolate a str ob

Re: [Python-Dev] RFC: PEP 460: Add bytes % args and bytes.format(args) to Python 3.5

On 01/11/2014 10:36 AM, Steven D'Aprano wrote: On Sat, Jan 11, 2014 at 08:20:27AM -0800, Ethan Furman wrote: unicode to bytes bytes to unicode using latin1 unicode to bytes Where do you get this from? I don't follow your logic. Start with a text template: template = """\xDE\xAD\xBE\

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 460: allowing %d and %f and mojibake

On 2014年1月11日 10:38:01 -0800 Ethan Furman wrote:> On 01/11/2014 10:32 AM, Antoine Pitrou wrote:>> On 2014年1月11日 18:41:49 +0100>> Victor Stinner wrote:>>>>>> If you agree, I will modify the PEP. If Antoine disagree, I will fork>>> the PEP 460 ;-)>>>> Please fork it.> >

Re: [Python-Dev] RFC: PEP 460: Add bytes % args and bytes.format(args) to Python 3.5

On 2014年01月11日 05:36, Steven D'Aprano wrote: [snip] Latin-1 has the nice property that every byte decodes into the character with the same code point, and visa versa. So: for i in range(256): assert bytes([i]).decode('latin-1') == chr(i) assert chr(i).encode('latin-1') == bytes([i]) pa

Re: [Python-Dev] RFC: PEP 460: Add bytes % args and bytes.format(args) to Python 3.5

On Sat, Jan 11, 2014 at 05:33:17PM +0100, M.-A. Lemburg wrote:> FWIW: I quite liked the Python 2 model, but perhaps that's because> I already knww how Unicode works, so could use it to make my> life easier ;-) /incredulous I would really love to see you justify that claim. How do you use the

Re: [Python-Dev] RFC: PEP 460: Add bytes % args and bytes.format(args) to Python 3.5

On Sat, Jan 11, 2014 at 04:15:35PM +0100, M.-A. Lemburg wrote:> I think we need to step back a little from the purist view> of things and give more emphasis on the "practicality beats> purity" Zen.> > I complete agree with Stephen, that bytes are in fact often> an encoding of text. If that t

Re: [Python-Dev] RFC: PEP 460: Add bytes % args and bytes.format(args) to Python 3.5

M.-A. Lemburg writes: > I complete agree with Stephen, that bytes are in fact often > an encoding of text. If that text is ASCII compatible, I don't > see any reason why we should not continue to expose the C lib > standard string APIs available for text manipulations on bytes. We already *ha

Re: [Python-Dev] RFC: PEP 460: Add bytes % args and bytes.format(args) to Python 3.5

tl;dr: At the end I'm volunteering to look at real code that is having porting problems. On 2014年1月11日 17:33:17 +0100, "M.-A. Lemburg" wrote:> asciistr is interesting in that it coerces to bytes instead> of to Unicode (as is the case in Python 2).> > At the moment it doesn't cover the m

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 460: allowing %d and %f and mojibake

On 01/11/2014 10:32 AM, Antoine Pitrou wrote: On 2014年1月11日 18:41:49 +0100 Victor Stinner wrote: If you agree, I will modify the PEP. If Antoine disagree, I will fork the PEP 460 ;-) Please fork it. You've already stated you don't care that much and are willing to let the PEP as-is b

Re: [Python-Dev] RFC: PEP 460: Add bytes % args and bytes.format(args) to Python 3.5

On Sat, Jan 11, 2014 at 08:20:27AM -0800, Ethan Furman wrote:> On 01/11/2014 07:38 AM, Steven D'Aprano wrote:>>>>The point that I am making is that many people want to add formatting>>operations to bytes so they can put ASCII strings inside bytes. But (as>>far as I can tell) they don't nee

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 460: allowing %d and %f and mojibake

On 2014年1月11日 18:41:49 +0100 Victor Stinner wrote:> > If you agree, I will modify the PEP. If Antoine disagree, I will fork> the PEP 460 ;-) Please fork it.> b'x=%s' % 10 is well defined, it's pure bytes. It is well-defined? Then please explain me what the general case of b'%s' % x

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 460: allowing %d and %f and NOT ALLOWING mojibake :)

Am 11.01.2014 18:41, schrieb Victor Stinner:> Hi,> > I'm in favor of adding support of formatting integer and floatting> point numbers in the PEP 460: %d, %u, %o, %x, %f with padding and> precision (%10d, %010d, %1.5f) and sign (%-i, %+i) but without> alternate format ("{:#x}"). %s would also

Re: [Python-Dev] RFC: PEP 460: Add bytes % args and bytes.format(args) to Python 3.5

On 01/11/2014 07:34 AM, Nick Coghlan wrote: On 12 January 2014 01:15, M.-A. Lemburg wrote: We don't have to be pedantic about the bytes/text separation. It doesn't help in real life. Yes, it bloody well does. The number of people who have told me that using Python 3 is what allowed them to fi

[Python-Dev] PEP 460: allowing %d and %f and mojibake

Hi, I'm in favor of adding support of formatting integer and floatting point numbers in the PEP 460: %d, %u, %o, %x, %f with padding and precision (%10d, %010d, %1.5f) and sign (%-i, %+i) but without alternate format ("{:#x}"). %s would also accept int and float for convenience. int and float sub

Re: [Python-Dev] RFC: PEP 460: Add bytes % args and bytes.format(args) to Python 3.5

On 01/11/2014 12:43 AM, Nick Coghlan wrote: In particular, the bytes type is, and always will be, designed for pure binary manipulation [...] I apologize for being blunt, but this is a lie. Lets take a look at the methods defined by bytes: dir(b'') ['__add__', '__class__', '__contains__', '

Re: [Python-Dev] RFC: PEP 460: Add bytes % args and bytes.format(args) to Python 3.5

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On 2014年01月11日, 10:56 GMT, you wrote:> I don't know what the fuss is about. I just cannot resist: When you are calm while everybody else is in the state of panic, you haven’t understood the problem. -- one of many collections of Murphy’

Re: [Python-Dev] Python3 "complexity"

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On 2014年01月10日, 17:34 GMT, you wrote:> From my experience, the concept of a default locale is deeply > flawed. What if I log into a (Linux) machine using an old > latin-1 putty from the Windows XP era, have most file names > and contents in UTF-8 e

Re: [Python-Dev] RFC: PEP 460: Add bytes % args and bytes.format(args) to Python 3.5

On 11.01.2014 16:34, Nick Coghlan wrote:> On 12 January 2014 01:15, M.-A. Lemburg wrote:>> On 11.01.2014 14:54, Georg Brandl wrote:>>> Am 11.01.2014 14:49, schrieb Georg Brandl: Am 11.01.2014 10:44, schrieb Stephen Hansen:> I mean, its not like the "bytes" type lacks knowledge of

Re: [Python-Dev] RFC: PEP 460: Add bytes % args and bytes.format(args) to Python 3.5

On 01/11/2014 07:38 AM, Steven D'Aprano wrote: The point that I am making is that many people want to add formatting operations to bytes so they can put ASCII strings inside bytes. But (as far as I can tell) they don't need to do this, because they can treat Unicode strings containing code point

Re: [Python-Dev] RFC: PEP 460: Add bytes % args and bytes.format(args) to Python 3.5

On 2014年1月12日 01:34:26 +1000 Nick Coghlan wrote:> > Yes, it bloody well does. The number of people who have told me that> using Python 3 is what allowed them to finally understand how Unicode> works vastly exceeds the number of wire protocol and file format devs> that have complained ab

Re: [Python-Dev] RFC: PEP 460: Add bytes % args and bytes.format(args) to Python 3.5

On Sat, Jan 11, 2014 at 01:56:56PM +0100, Juraj Sukop wrote:> On Sat, Jan 11, 2014 at 6:36 AM, Steven D'Aprano wrote:>> If you consider PDF as binary with occasional pieces of ASCII text, then>> working with bytes makes sense. But I wonder whether it might be better>> to consider PDF as mos

Re: [Python-Dev] RFC: PEP 460: Add bytes % args and bytes.format(args) to Python 3.5

On 12 January 2014 01:15, M.-A. Lemburg wrote:> On 11.01.2014 14:54, Georg Brandl wrote:>> Am 11.01.2014 14:49, schrieb Georg Brandl:>>> Am 11.01.2014 10:44, schrieb Stephen Hansen:>>> I mean, its not like the "bytes" type lacks knowledge of the subset of bytes that happen to b

Re: [Python-Dev] RFC: PEP 460: Add bytes % args and bytes.format(args) to Python 3.5

On 2014年1月11日 08:26:57 +0100 Georg Brandl wrote:> Am 11.01.2014 03:04, schrieb Antoine Pitrou:>> On 2014年1月10日 20:53:09 -0500>> "Eric V. Smith" wrote:>>> >>> So, I'm -1 on the PEP. It doesn't address the cases laid out in issue>>> 3892. See for example http://bugs.python.or

Re: [Python-Dev] RFC: PEP 460: Add bytes % args and bytes.format(args) to Python 3.5

On 11.01.2014 14:54, Georg Brandl wrote:> Am 11.01.2014 14:49, schrieb Georg Brandl:>> Am 11.01.2014 10:44, schrieb Stephen Hansen:>>>>> I mean, its not like the "bytes" type lacks knowledge of the subset of bytes>>> that happen to be 7-bit ascii-compatible and can't perform text-ish >>> oper

Re: [Python-Dev] RFC: PEP 460: Add bytes % args and bytes.format(args) to Python 3.5

Am 11.01.2014 14:49, schrieb Georg Brandl:> Am 11.01.2014 10:44, schrieb Stephen Hansen:> >> I mean, its not like the "bytes" type lacks knowledge of the subset of bytes>> that happen to be 7-bit ascii-compatible and can't perform text-ish >> operations>> on them-->> >> Python 3.3.3 (v3.3

Re: [Python-Dev] RFC: PEP 460: Add bytes % args and bytes.format(args) to Python 3.5

Am 11.01.2014 10:44, schrieb Stephen Hansen:> I mean, its not like the "bytes" type lacks knowledge of the subset of bytes> that happen to be 7-bit ascii-compatible and can't perform text-ish operations> on them--> > Python 3.3.3 (v3.3.3:c3896275c0f6, Nov 18 2013, 21:18:40) [MSC v.1600 32 b

Re: [Python-Dev] RFC: PEP 460: Add bytes % args and bytes.format(args) to Python 3.5

Am 11.01.2014 09:43, schrieb Nick Coghlan:> On 11 January 2014 12:28, Ethan Furman wrote:>> On 01/10/2014 06:04 PM, Antoine Pitrou wrote:>>>>>> On 2014年1月10日 20:53:09 -0500>>> "Eric V. Smith" wrote: So, I'm -1 on the PEP. It doesn't address the cases laid out in issue>>

[Python-Dev] Important background for PEP 460: Py 2/3 text model differences

The PEP 460 discussion threads made it clear that some of the participants that weren't around for the earlier parts of the Python 3 transition were struggling with the fundamental conceptual differences between the Python 2 and Python 3 text models. Since other folks (including Armin Ronacher) ha

Re: [Python-Dev] RFC: PEP 460: Add bytes % args and bytes.format(args) to Python 3.5

On Sat, Jan 11, 2014 at 6:36 AM, Steven D'Aprano wrote:>> I'm sorry, I don't understand what you mean here. I'm honestly not> trying to be difficult, but you sound confident that you understand what> you are doing, but your description doesn't make sense to me. To me, it> looks like you are c

Re: [Python-Dev] RFC: PEP 460: Add bytes % args and bytes.format(args) to Python 3.5

On Sat, Jan 11, 2014 at 5:14 AM, Cameron Simpson wrote:>> Hi Juraj,> Hello Cameron.> data = b' '.join( bytify( [ 10, 0, obj, binary_image_data, ... ] ) )> Thanks for the suggestion! The problem with "bytify" is that some items might require different formatting than other items. For ex

Re: [Python-Dev] RFC: PEP 460: Add bytes % args and bytes.format(args) to Python 3.5

I don't know what the fuss is about. This isn't about breaking the text model. It's about a convenient way to turn text into bytes using a default, lenient, way. Not the other way round. Here's my proposal b'foo%sbar' % (a) would implicitly apply the following function equivalent to every obje

Re: [Python-Dev] RFC: PEP 460: Add bytes % args and bytes.format(args) to Python 3.5

On 1/11/2014 1:44 AM, Stephen Hansen wrote: There's been a number of examples given: PDF, HTTP, network streams that switch inline from text-ish to binary and back-again.. But, we can focus that down to a very narrow and not at all uncommon situation in the latter. PDF has been mentioned a fe

Re: [Python-Dev] RFC: PEP 460: Add bytes % args and bytes.format(args) to Python 3.5

For not caring much, your own stubbornness is quite notable throughout this discussion. Stones and glass houses. :) That said: Twisted and Mercurial aren't the only ones who are hurt by this, at all. I'm aware of at least two other projects who are actively hindered in their support or migration

Re: [Python-Dev] RFC: PEP 460: Add bytes % args and bytes.format(args) to Python 3.5

On 11 January 2014 12:28, Ethan Furman wrote:> On 01/10/2014 06:04 PM, Antoine Pitrou wrote:>>>> On 2014年1月10日 20:53:09 -0500>> "Eric V. Smith" wrote:>>>>>>>>> So, I'm -1 on the PEP. It doesn't address the cases laid out in issue>>> 3892. See for example http://bugs.python.org/issue

Re: [Python-Dev] RFC: PEP 460: Add bytes % args and bytes.format(args) to Python 3.5

On 11 January 2014 08:58, Ethan Furman wrote:> On 01/10/2014 02:42 PM, Antoine Pitrou wrote:>>>> On 2014年1月10日 17:33:57 -0500>> "Eric V. Smith" wrote:>>>>>> On 1/10/2014 5:29 PM, Antoine Pitrou wrote: On 2014年1月10日 12:56:19 -0500 "Eric V. Smith" wrote:>