Re: [Python-Dev] Python 3 as a Default in Linux Distros
- Original Message -> Am 24.07.13 11:12, schrieb Bohuslav Kabrda:>> - Should we point /usr/bin/python to Python 3 when we make the move?> > This should depend on the answer to this question:> - for how long have you been providing /usr/bin/python2 binaries?> Huh, I don't know exact
Re: [Python-Dev] Python 3 as a Default in Linux Distros
- Original Message -> On Wed, Jul 24, 2013 at 11:12 AM, Bohuslav Kabrda wrote:>> - Should we point /usr/bin/python to Python 3 when we make the move?> > No.> >> - What should user get after using "yum install python"?> > Will a base install include Python 3? If it does, I think y
Re: [Python-Dev] Daemon creation code in the standard library
Ben Finney writes:> Work continues on the PEP 3143-compatible ‘python-daemon’, porting it to> Python 3 and aiming for inclusion in the standard library. At PyPI http://pypi.python.org/pypi/python-daemon/>, and development co-ordinated at Alioth https://alioth.debian.org/projects/python-daemon/
[Python-Dev] Daemon creation code in the standard library (was: Inherance of file descriptor and handles on Windows (PEP 446))
Guido van Rossum writes:> To reduce the need for 3rd party subprocess creation code, we should> have better daemon creation code in the stdlib -- I wrote some damn> robust code for this purpose in my previous job, but it never saw the> light of day. Work continues on the PEP 3143-compatible
Re: [Python-Dev] Inherance of file descriptor and handles on Windows (PEP 446)
On Wed, Jul 24, 2013 at 3:35 PM, Antoine Pitrou wrote:> On 2013年7月24日 15:25:50 -0700> Guido van Rossum wrote:>>>> To reduce the need for 3rd party subprocess creation code, we should>>>> have better daemon creation code in the stdlib -- I wrote some damn>>>> robust code for this pur
Re: [Python-Dev] Inherance of file descriptor and handles on Windows (PEP 446)
On 25Jul2013 00:35, Antoine Pitrou wrote: | On 2013年7月24日 15:25:50 -0700 | Guido van Rossum wrote: |>>> To reduce the need for 3rd party subprocess creation code, we should |>>> have better daemon creation code in the stdlib -- I wrote some damn |>>> robust code for this purpose in my
Re: [Python-Dev] Python 3 as a Default in Linux Distros
On 25 Jul 2013 05:30, "Toshio Kuratomi" wrote:>> On Wed, Jul 24, 2013 at 12:42:09PM -0400, Barry Warsaw wrote:>> On Jul 25, 2013, at 01:41 AM, Nick Coghlan wrote:>>>>>How's this for an updated wording in the abstract:>>>>>> * for the time being, all distributions should ensure that
Re: [Python-Dev] Inherance of file descriptor and handles on Windows (PEP 446)
On 7/24/2013 6:25 PM, Guido van Rossum wrote:>>> To reduce the need for 3rd party subprocess creation code, we should>>> have better daemon creation code in the stdlib -- I wrote some damn>>> robust code for this purpose in my previous job, but it never saw the>>> light of day.>>>> What do yo
Re: [Python-Dev] Python 3 as a Default in Linux Distros
Chris Angelico wrote: print "Hello, world!" SyntaxError: invalid syntax Is it safe to presume that it's more likely a syntax error will come from an interpreter version mismatch than a code bug? Maybe look at sys.args[0], and if it ends in "python" with no version number, add something to the
Re: [Python-Dev] Inherance of file descriptor and handles on Windows (PEP 446)
On 24/07/2013 10:50pm, Victor Stinner wrote: So would it be possible to implement the pass_fds parameter of subprocess using spawnl() or the undocumented fields? Not in a non-racy way. spawnv() calls CreateProcess() with bInheritHandles=TRUE, so *all* inheritable handles are inherited by the
Re: [Python-Dev] Inherance of file descriptor and handles on Windows (PEP 446)
On 2013年7月24日 15:25:50 -0700 Guido van Rossum wrote:>>> To reduce the need for 3rd party subprocess creation code, we should>>> have better daemon creation code in the stdlib -- I wrote some damn>>> robust code for this purpose in my previous job, but it never saw the>>> light of day
Re: [Python-Dev] Inherance of file descriptor and handles on Windows (PEP 446)
On Wed, Jul 24, 2013 at 2:57 PM, Antoine Pitrou wrote:> On 2013年7月24日 10:56:05 -0700> Guido van Rossum wrote:>>>> But I'm also ready to propose that all this is such a mess that we>> *should* change the default fd/handle inheritance to False, *across>> platforms*, and damn the torpedo
Re: [Python-Dev] Inherance of file descriptor and handles on Windows (PEP 446)
On 2013年7月24日 10:56:05 -0700 Guido van Rossum wrote:> > But I'm also ready to propose that all this is such a mess that we> *should* change the default fd/handle inheritance to False, *across> platforms*, and damn the torpedoes -- i.e. accept breaking all> existing 3rd party UNIX code f
Re: [Python-Dev] Inherance of file descriptor and handles on Windows (PEP 446)
2013年7月24日 Richard Oudkerk :>> Wow. Indeed you can -- I just tested this myself. How is this>> accomplished? I guess the CRT has a backchannel to talk to itself when>> it creates a process using spawn*?>> CreateProcess() takes a STARTUPINFO argument with undocumented fields> cbReserved2, lpRes
Re: [Python-Dev] Python 3 as a Default in Linux Distros
On Wed, Jul 24, 2013 at 7:22 PM, Laurent Gautier wrote:> The wrapper in /usr/bin/python:> - could use what is in 2to3. I think that most of the cases are solved> there. Only the most trivial cases are solved completely by 2to3, and the error messages you would get would be hard to understand,
Re: [Python-Dev] Python 3 as a Default in Linux Distros
On Wed, Jul 24, 2013 at 12:42:09PM -0400, Barry Warsaw wrote:> On Jul 25, 2013, at 01:41 AM, Nick Coghlan wrote:> >>How's this for an updated wording in the abstract:>>>> * for the time being, all distributions should ensure that python>>refers to the same target as python2>> * howeve
Re: [Python-Dev] Inherance of file descriptor and handles on Windows (PEP 446)
On 24/07/2013 7:17pm, Guido van Rossum wrote:> Does it also inherit sockets (which take up a different namespace than> regular FDs in CRT, unlike UNIX)? Not reliably. Processes created with CreateProcess() seems to inherit socket handles just like normal handles on my computer, but on some o
Re: [Python-Dev] Inherance of file descriptor and handles on Windows (PEP 446)
On Wed, Jul 24, 2013 at 11:13 AM, Richard Oudkerk wrote:>> Wow. Indeed you can -- I just tested this myself. How is this>> accomplished? I guess the CRT has a backchannel to talk to itself when>> it creates a process using spawn*?>> CreateProcess() takes a STARTUPINFO argument with undocument
Re: [Python-Dev] Inherance of file descriptor and handles on Windows (PEP 446)
> Wow. Indeed you can -- I just tested this myself. How is this> accomplished? I guess the CRT has a backchannel to talk to itself when> it creates a process using spawn*? CreateProcess() takes a STARTUPINFO argument with undocumented fields cbReserved2, lpReserved2. They are used to pass an
Re: [Python-Dev] Inherance of file descriptor and handles on Windows (PEP 446)
On Tue, Jul 23, 2013 at 4:21 PM, Richard Oudkerk wrote:> On 23/07/2013 11:45pm, Victor Stinner wrote:>>>> Said differently: the HANDLE_FLAG_INHERIT flag only has an effect on>> *handles*, as indicated in its name. On Windows, file*descriptors*>> are never inherited (are always closed) in chil
Re: [Python-Dev] Python 3 as a Default in Linux Distros
Gustavo Carneiro, 24.07.2013 19:16:> On Wed, Jul 24, 2013 at 6:04 PM, Terry Reedy wrote:>> On 7/24/2013 5:12 AM, Bohuslav Kabrda wrote:>>> Hi all, in recent days, there has been a discussion on fedora-devel>>> (see thread [1]) about moving to Python 3 as a default.>>>> Not being a current *ni
Re: [Python-Dev] Python 3 as a Default in Linux Distros
On 07/24/2013 06:30 PM, Chris Angelico wrote: On Thu, Jul 25, 2013 at 2:21 AM, Laurent Gautier wrote: - errors that are typical of "Python 2 script running with Python 3"-specific are probably limited (e.g., use of unicode, use of xrange, etc...) The most common, in interactive scripts at lea
Re: [Python-Dev] Python 3 as a Default in Linux Distros
On Wed, Jul 24, 2013 at 6:04 PM, Terry Reedy wrote:> On 7/24/2013 5:12 AM, Bohuslav Kabrda wrote:>>> Hi all, in recent days, there has been a discussion on fedora-devel>> (see thread [1]) about moving to Python 3 as a default.>>>> Default-shift is a known natural language phenomenon.> htt
Re: [Python-Dev] Python 3 as a Default in Linux Distros
On 7/24/2013 5:12 AM, Bohuslav Kabrda wrote: Hi all, in recent days, there has been a discussion on fedora-devel (see thread [1]) about moving to Python 3 as a default. Default-shift is a known natural language phenomenon. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Retronym It is inevitably messy in the mid
Re: [Python-Dev] Python 3 as a Default in Linux Distros
On Jul 25, 2013, at 01:41 AM, Nick Coghlan wrote:>How's this for an updated wording in the abstract:>> * for the time being, all distributions should ensure that python>refers to the same target as python2> * however, users should be aware that python refers to python3 on at>least Arch Lin
Re: [Python-Dev] Python 3 as a Default in Linux Distros
On Jul 24, 2013, at 08:26 AM, Toshio Kuratomi wrote:> I think bkabrda is looking for some clarification on PEP-394. My>reading and participation in the previous discussions lead me to believe>that while PEP-394 wants to be diplomatic, the message it wants to get>across is:>>1) warn distrib
Re: [Python-Dev] Python 3 as a Default in Linux Distros
On Wed, Jul 24, 2013 at 10:56 AM, Lennart Regebro wrote:> On Wed, Jul 24, 2013 at 3:54 PM, Lennart Regebro wrote:>> On Wed, Jul 24, 2013 at 11:12 AM, Bohuslav Kabrda wrote:>>> - Should we point /usr/bin/python to Python 3 when we make the move?>>>> No.>> To be more explicit. I think it's
Re: [Python-Dev] Python 3 as a Default in Linux Distros
On Thu, Jul 25, 2013 at 2:21 AM, Laurent Gautier wrote:> - errors that are typical of "Python 2 script running with Python> 3"-specific are probably limited (e.g., use of unicode, use of xrange,> etc...)> The most common, in interactive scripts at least, is likely to be:>>> print "Hello, wo
Re: [Python-Dev] Python 3 as a Default in Linux Distros
Am 24.07.13 17:56, schrieb Lennart Regebro:> On Wed, Jul 24, 2013 at 3:54 PM, Lennart Regebro wrote:>> On Wed, Jul 24, 2013 at 11:12 AM, Bohuslav Kabrda wrote:>>> - Should we point /usr/bin/python to Python 3 when we make the move?>>>> No.>> To be more explicit. I think it's perfectly fine
Re: [Python-Dev] Python 3 as a Default in Linux Distros
On 07/24/2013 05:56 PM, Lennart Regebro wrote: On Wed, Jul 24, 2013 at 3:54 PM, Lennart Regebro wrote: On Wed, Jul 24, 2013 at 11:12 AM, Bohuslav Kabrda wrote: - Should we point /usr/bin/python to Python 3 when we make the move? No. To be more explicit. I think it's perfectly fine to not pr
Re: [Python-Dev] Python 3 as a Default in Linux Distros
On Jul 24, 2013, at 05:12 AM, Bohuslav Kabrda wrote:>in recent days, there has been a discussion on fedora-devel (see thread [1])>about moving to Python 3 as a default. I've been lurking via Gmane. :)>- Should we point /usr/bin/python to Python 3 when we make the move? Over in Debian (inheri
Re: [Python-Dev] Python 3 as a Default in Linux Distros
On Wed, Jul 24, 2013 at 3:54 PM, Lennart Regebro wrote:> On Wed, Jul 24, 2013 at 11:12 AM, Bohuslav Kabrda wrote:>> - Should we point /usr/bin/python to Python 3 when we make the move?>> No. To be more explicit. I think it's perfectly fine to not provide a /usr/bin/python at all, but I think
Re: [Python-Dev] Python 3 as a Default in Linux Distros
On 25 July 2013 01:41, Nick Coghlan wrote:> How's this for an updated wording in the abstract:>> * for the time being, all distributions should ensure that python> refers to the same target as python2> * however, users should be aware that python refers to python3 on at> least Arch Linux
Re: [Python-Dev] Python 3 as a Default in Linux Distros
On 25 July 2013 01:26, Toshio Kuratomi wrote:> On Wed, Jul 24, 2013 at 09:34:11AM -0400, Brett Cannon wrote:>> A similar discussion broke out when Arch Linux switched python to point to>> python3. This led to http://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0394/ which says have>> python2/python3, and have
Re: [Python-Dev] Python 3 as a Default in Linux Distros
Note: I'm the opposite number to bkabrda in the discussion on the Fedora Lists about how quickly we should be breaking end-user expectations of what "python" means. On Wed, Jul 24, 2013 at 09:34:11AM -0400, Brett Cannon wrote:> > > > On Wed, Jul 24, 2013 at 5:12 AM, Bohuslav Kabrda wrote:>
Re: [Python-Dev] Python 3 as a Default in Linux Distros
Am 24.07.13 11:12, schrieb Bohuslav Kabrda:> - Should we point /usr/bin/python to Python 3 when we make the move? This should depend on the answer to this question: - for how long have you been providing /usr/bin/python2 binaries? Users "should" have been explicit in declaring scripts as /usr/bi
Re: [Python-Dev] Python 3 as a Default in Linux Distros
Haven't been over to yum land in a while, but usually they stabilize the distro in synergy to the python version. Ubuntu came with 2.7, and I just use sudo-apt get install, for 3.2(or a gui package manager), and then can use 3.2 with using the command python3.2 in command line, or you can compile f
Re: [Python-Dev] Python 3 as a Default in Linux Distros
On Wed, Jul 24, 2013 at 11:12 AM, Bohuslav Kabrda wrote:> - Should we point /usr/bin/python to Python 3 when we make the move? No.> - What should user get after using "yum install python"? Will a base install include Python 3? If it does, I think yum install python should mean python3, and he
Re: [Python-Dev] Python 3 as a Default in Linux Distros
On Wed, Jul 24, 2013 at 5:12 AM, Bohuslav Kabrda wrote:> Hi all,> in recent days, there has been a discussion on fedora-devel (see thread> [1]) about moving to Python 3 as a default.> I'd really love to hear opinions on the matter from the upstream, mainly> regarding these two points (that a
Re: [Python-Dev] Python 3 as a Default in Linux Distros
On Wed, Jul 24, 2013 at 12:36 PM, Paul Moore wrote:> On 24 July 2013 10:12, Bohuslav Kabrda wrote:>>>> - What should user get after using "yum install python"?>> There are basically few ways of coping with this:>> 1) Just keep doing what we do, eventually far in the future drop "python">> p
Re: [Python-Dev] Python 3 as a Default in Linux Distros
On 24 July 2013 10:12, Bohuslav Kabrda wrote:> - What should user get after using "yum install python"?> There are basically few ways of coping with this:> 1) Just keep doing what we do, eventually far in the future drop "python"> package and never provide it again (= go on only with python3/
Re: [Python-Dev] Python 3 as a Default in Linux Distros
On Wed, Jul 24, 2013 at 11:12 AM, Bohuslav Kabrda wrote:> - What should user get after using "yum install python"?> There are basically few ways of coping with this:> 1) Just keep doing what we do, eventually far in the future drop "python" > package and never provide it again (= go on only wi
Re: [Python-Dev] Python 3 as a Default in Linux Distros
On Wed, Jul 24, 2013 at 7:12 PM, Bohuslav Kabrda wrote:> - What should user get after using "yum install python"?> There are basically few ways of coping with this:> 1) Just keep doing what we do, eventually far in the future drop "python" > package and never provide it again (= go on only wit
[Python-Dev] Python 3 as a Default in Linux Distros
Hi all, in recent days, there has been a discussion on fedora-devel (see thread [1]) about moving to Python 3 as a default. I'd really love to hear opinions on the matter from the upstream, mainly regarding these two points (that are not that clearly defined in my original proposal and have been
Re: [Python-Dev] [Python-checkins] cpython (3.3): return NULL here
Le 2013年7月24日 09:01:30 +0200, Ronald Oussoren a écrit :> > On 24 Jul, 2013, at 8:43, Gregory P. Smith wrote:> >> >> On Tue, Jul 23, 2013 at 8:46 AM, Ronald Oussoren>> wrote:>> >> On 23 Jul, 2013, at 17:36, Christian Heimes >> wrote:>> >>> Am 23.07.2013 17:10, schrieb Be
Re: [Python-Dev] [Python-checkins] cpython (3.3): return NULL here
On 24 Jul, 2013, at 8:43, Gregory P. Smith wrote:> > On Tue, Jul 23, 2013 at 8:46 AM, Ronald Oussoren > wrote:> > On 23 Jul, 2013, at 17:36, Christian Heimes wrote:> >> Am 23.07.2013 17:10, schrieb Benjamin Peterson:>>>> PyErr_SetFromErrno() already and always returns NULL. Or do you