Talk:Elisabeth Farnese

Hello, everyone. Shouldn't the page be at Elizabeth Farnese? It is her most common name, and she is the only memebr of the House of Farnese that has "of Parma" billing. Indigenous Italian dynastys always used surnames. For example, the Medici; the Cybo-Malaspinas; the Sforzas; the Visconti; the Gonzagas; the Estes and so forth.

• 967 books refer to her as Elizabeth Farnese
• 714 books refer to her as Isabel Farnese
• 668 books refer to her as Isabella Farnese
• 30 books refer to her as Elisabeth of Parma

-- Jack1755 (talk) 21:21, 3 September 2009 (UTC) Reply

Here are the right numbers:

• 405 books refer to her as Elisabeth Farnese
• 362 books refer to her as Elizabeth Farnese
• 318 books refer to her as Isabella Farnese
• 282 books refer to her as Isabel Farnese
• 21 books refer to her as Elisabeth of Parma

You should use the number given on the last page of search results, as the numbers you cited contain each book listed several times. Also, some books were not in English. You haven't considered Elizabeth of Parma, which gets 356 results.

I agree with you: the title should be changed. However, it will not be so easy to determine what the new title should be. The difference between the first three names is not large enough. We should examine the sources and determine how modern books refer to her (some of the books that refer to her are two centuries old). Surtsicna (talk) 21:54, 3 September 2009 (UTC) Reply

But, why does it matter if some of the books are old? They might be availible in libraries across the globe, or still in print. The only biography of her availible on Amazon was originally published in 1892. The Duc de Saint-Simon's memoirs were published in the 18th century, but are widely availible today. (Incidentally, Saint-Simon refers to her as "Elizabeth Farnese"). How do we determine which books are more widely accessable? -- Jack1755 (talk) 22:16, 3 September 2009 (UTC) Reply

See Wikipedia:Reliable sources. Two-century-old sources are hardly ever considered reliable. For example, she might have been known as Elizabeth in the 19th century, but she is known as Elisabeth now (just an example). It makes sense to use the name which is used by modern authors. Surtsicna (talk) 22:29, 3 September 2009 (UTC) Reply

Alright, I capitulate. Which name do you think the most modern? -- Jack1755 (talk) 14:04, 6 September 2009 (UTC) Reply

Risking my neck on this one, I say Elisabeth Farnese. I may even concede to change s to z in Elisabeth, but Farnese for sure, and with her original name, Elisabetta Farnese somewhere in the lead. Frania W. (talk) 14:45, 6 September 2009 (UTC) Reply

I don't think anyone would object to Elisabeth Farnese and I, currently being too lazy to examine the sources, accept Elisabeth Farnese. Surtsicna (talk) 14:50, 6 September 2009 (UTC) Reply

Then it's settled. I'll move the page. Elisabetta Farnese already present in the intro, Frania. -- Jack1755 (talk) 23:07, 6 September 2009 (UT

Good! Thank you Surtsicna for agreeing & Jack for doing the move. Wish everything was that easy! No doubt our paths will cross again. Frania W. (talk) 23:26, 6 September 2009 (UTC) Reply

Could anyone please tell me which source says that her full name was Elisabeth Maria? All the books I have read so far refer to her just as Elisabeth/Isabel (without Maria). And which source says that she was born in the Palazzo della Pillotta? DanyMountbatten (talk) 11:28, 11 September 2009 (UTC) Reply

A simple Google Book Search would provide answers. For the first question, see the results for:

• Elisabeth Maria Farnese
• Elisabetta Maria Farnese
• Elizabeth Maria of Parma

Seeing that most of the sources which refer to her as Elisabeth Maria are two centuries old and that other Wikipedias call her simply Elisabeth, I would not oppose removing Maria. Surtsicna (talk) 14:59, 11 September 2009 (UTC) Reply

I agree with you; besides, the sources which refer to her as Elisabeth Maria are few. Therefore I will remove Maria. DanyMountbatten (talk) 17:23, 11 September 2009 (UTC) Reply