ziglang/zig
263
5.9k
Fork
You've already forked zig
760

Define a distinct Zig libc ABI #35379

Open
opened 2026年05月21日 07:41:29 +02:00 by alexrp · 9 comments

Supersedes/migrated from: https://github.com/ziglang/zig/issues/24560

When filling in Zig code (#30978) for established libc ABIs such as musl, MinGW-w64, etc, we cannot deviate from those ABIs in any observable way, which means we inherit any quirks that they have, and we cannot extend the API surface in any way. We also would like to define a freestanding subset of Zig libc, but this can't be done under the names of those established libcs either.

So the task here is to define a completely distinct Zig libc ABI - think aarch64-linux-zig, x86_64-freestanding-zig, and so on. (In https://github.com/ziglang/zig/issues/20690 terms, the zig bit would be the api component.) With this ABI, we have the freedom to:

  • Break with any legacy nonsense in existing libcs.
  • Define consistent C ABI rules across targets.
  • Offer a freestanding subset.
  • Potentially extend the API surface.
  • Author our own libc headers.

I'm currently cooking up an initial proposal for the ABI, which should be ready soon.

Supersedes/migrated from: https://github.com/ziglang/zig/issues/24560 When filling in Zig code (https://codeberg.org/ziglang/zig/issues/30978) for established libc ABIs such as musl, MinGW-w64, etc, we cannot deviate from those ABIs in any observable way, which means we inherit any quirks that they have, and we cannot extend the API surface in any way. We also would like to define a freestanding subset of Zig libc, but this can't be done under the names of those established libcs either. So the task here is to define a completely distinct Zig libc ABI - think `aarch64-linux-zig`, `x86_64-freestanding-zig`, and so on. (In https://github.com/ziglang/zig/issues/20690 terms, the `zig` bit would be the `api` component.) With this ABI, we have the freedom to: * Break with any legacy nonsense in existing libcs. * Define consistent C ABI rules across targets. * Offer a freestanding subset. * Potentially extend the API surface. * Author our own libc headers. I'm currently cooking up an initial proposal for the ABI, which should be ready soon.
alexrp added this to the Urgent milestone 2026年05月21日 07:41:29 +02:00
Contributor
Copy link

Would this also define consistent calling convention?

Would this also define consistent calling convention?
Author
Owner
Copy link

@Cloudef wrote in #35379 (comment):

Would this also define consistent calling convention?

That depends on what you mean by "calling convention".

@Cloudef wrote in https://codeberg.org/ziglang/zig/issues/35379#issuecomment-15445601: > Would this also define consistent calling convention? That depends on what you mean by "calling convention".
Contributor
Copy link

For example x86_64-linux-zig and x86_64-windows-zig would call the external zig ABI functions the same way. For -freestanding it is often what compiler decides to do (usually the same as linux).

For example `x86_64-linux-zig` and `x86_64-windows-zig` would call the external `zig` ABI functions the same way. For `-freestanding` it is often what compiler decides to do (usually the same as linux).
Author
Owner
Copy link

Can we get away with changing the size and format of long double? Sure.

Can we get away with changing the size of long? No; the Windows SDK (and thus ntdll.dll/kernel32.dll) has a hard requirement that it's always equal to int.

So again, it depends on what you mean. But I can say that, in general, we have no ability to change how types get passed in registers and the stack; we can only change their basic properties like size and alignment, and even then, the platform may impose hard requirements on us, as is the case on Windows.

Can we get away with changing the size and format of `long double`? Sure. Can we get away with changing the size of `long`? No; the Windows SDK (and thus `ntdll.dll`/`kernel32.dll`) has a hard requirement that it's always equal to `int`. So again, it depends on what you mean. But I can say that, in general, we have no ability to change how types get passed in registers and the stack; we can only change their basic properties like size and alignment, and even then, the platform may impose hard requirements on us, as is the case on Windows.
Contributor
Copy link

I was mainly wondering how far this zig abi definition goes. So there is still the arch-os specific baggage, and -zig would only define the libc bits?

I personally would be interested in very clearly documented calling convention. As my use case is loading cross-OS binaries, and my only way to cope is to make sure everyone does whatever LLVM happens to do and I don't pass or return too complex types :). I presume this is out of scope here.

I was mainly wondering how far this zig abi definition goes. So there is still the arch-os specific baggage, and -zig would only define the libc bits? I personally would be interested in very clearly documented calling convention. As my use case is loading cross-OS binaries, and my only way to cope is to make sure everyone does whatever LLVM happens to do and I don't pass or return too complex types :). I presume this is out of scope here.
Author
Owner
Copy link

@Cloudef wrote in #35379 (comment):

I was mainly wondering how far this zig abi definition goes. So there is still the arch-os specific baggage, and -zig would only define the libc bits?

What we can do is things like making char signedness consistent, having a consistent size for long double, require IEEE floating point, and a few other things like that. However, we can't do anything about ABI requirements that Microsoft have decreed for the Windows SDK, even if we wanted to. (And we would very much like to fix long on Windows, but alas.)

@Cloudef wrote in #35379 (comment):

I personally would be interested in very clearly documented calling convention. As my use case is loading cross-OS binaries, and my only way to cope is to make sure everyone does whatever LLVM happens to do and I don't pass or return too complex types :). I presume this is out of scope here.

I think it would be problematic to pursue custom calling convention rules -- in the llvm/lib/Target/*/*CallingConv.td and clang/lib/CodeGen/Targets/*.cpp sense -- for the Zig libc ABI because it would require non-trivial compiler work on all targets - work that GCC and Clang may not even be interested in accepting upstream. On the other hand, adjusting things like type sizes and alignments is a fairly simple change that should be uncontroversial because most environments define some custom rules in this area.

Ultimately, there's not much point in linking libc in the first place if you can't also link C code into your program. So we have to approach this task with a healthy dose of pragmatism so that we can get the major C compilers on board.

Besides that, the Zig libc ABI spec would explode in size if we had to fully document calling conventions for every target.

@Cloudef wrote in https://codeberg.org/ziglang/zig/issues/35379#issuecomment-15447971: > I was mainly wondering how far this zig abi definition goes. So there is still the arch-os specific baggage, and -zig would only define the libc bits? What we can do is things like making `char` signedness consistent, having a consistent size for `long double`, require IEEE floating point, and a few other things like that. However, we can't do anything about ABI requirements that Microsoft have decreed for the Windows SDK, even if we wanted to. (And we *would* very much like to fix `long` on Windows, but alas.) @Cloudef wrote in https://codeberg.org/ziglang/zig/issues/35379#issuecomment-15447971: > I personally would be interested in very clearly documented calling convention. As my use case is loading cross-OS binaries, and my only way to cope is to make sure everyone does whatever LLVM happens to do and I don't pass or return too complex types :). I presume this is out of scope here. I think it would be problematic to pursue custom calling convention rules -- in the `llvm/lib/Target/*/*CallingConv.td` and `clang/lib/CodeGen/Targets/*.cpp` sense -- for the Zig libc ABI because it would require non-trivial compiler work on all targets - work that GCC and Clang may not even be interested in accepting upstream. On the other hand, adjusting things like type sizes and alignments is a fairly simple change that should be uncontroversial because most environments define some custom rules in this area. Ultimately, there's not much point in linking libc in the first place if you can't also link C code into your program. So we have to approach this task with a healthy dose of pragmatism so that we can get the major C compilers on board. Besides that, the Zig libc ABI spec would explode in size if we had to fully document calling conventions for every target.
Contributor
Copy link

Yeah this is all reasonable. The scope is pretty clear to me now.

Yeah this is all reasonable. The scope is pretty clear to me now.
Contributor
Copy link

the freestanding subset here in particular would remove one of my last remaining external dependencies and be very useful in general for osdev, where linking to small freestanding c libraries while using only the freestanding header subset and not fully linking to libc is a very common pattern (example libraries being uACPI or flanterm)

the freestanding subset here in particular would remove one of my last remaining external dependencies and be very useful in general for osdev, where linking to small freestanding c libraries while using only the freestanding header subset and not fully linking to libc is a very common pattern (example libraries being [uACPI](https://github.com/uACPI/uACPI) or [flanterm](https://github.com/mintsuki/flanterm))

Consistent C ABI rules sounds great.

If I understood correctly, this would make arm32-freestanding-zig an attractive choice for projects where you deeply care about reproducible behavior across targets (like in the safety critical embedded systems industry).

In a way, this makes me think of WG14 C standard board member Eskil Steenberg's dependable c project. It defines a subset of rules to make C "dependable". I wonder how much of those issues could be addressed by the Zig libc ABI.

Consistent C ABI rules sounds great. If I understood correctly, this would make `arm32-freestanding-zig` an attractive choice for projects where you deeply care about reproducible behavior across targets (like in the safety critical embedded systems industry). In a way, this makes me think of WG14 C standard board member Eskil Steenberg's [dependable c](https://dependablec.org/) project. It defines a subset of rules to make C "dependable". I wonder how much of those issues could be addressed by the Zig libc ABI.
alexrp modified the milestone from Urgent to 0.18.0 2026年07月01日 04:46:24 +02:00
Sign in to join this conversation.
No Branch/Tag specified
master
elfv2
spork8
restricted
0.16.x
panic-rewrite
parking-futex-lockfree
windows-Io-cleanup
Io-watch
ParseCommandLineOptions
windows-async-files
poll-ring
debug-file-leaks-differently
debug-file-leaks
ProcessPrng
elfv2-dyn
jobserver
threadtheft
io-threaded-no-queue
0.15.x
Io.net
comptime-allocator
restricted-function-pointers
cli
wasm-linker-writer
wrangle-writer-buffering
sha1-stream
async-await-demo
fixes
0.14.x
ast-node-methods
macos-debug-info
make-vs-configure
fuzz-macos
sans-aro
ArrayList-reserve
incr-bug
llvm-ir-nosanitize-metadata
ci-tarballs
ci-scripts
threadpool
0.12.x
new-pkg-hash
json-diagnostics
more-doctests
rework-comptime-mutation
0.11.x
ci-perf-comment
stage2-async
0.10.x
autofix
0.9.x
aro
hcs
0.8.x
0.7.x
0.16.0
0.15.2
0.15.1
0.15.0
0.14.1
0.14.0
0.12.1
0.13.0
0.12.0
0.11.0
0.10.1
0.10.0
0.9.1
0.9.0
0.8.1
0.8.0
0.7.1
0.7.0
0.6.0
0.5.0
0.4.0
0.3.0
0.2.0
0.1.1
0.1.0
Labels
Clear labels
abi/f32
abi/ilp32
abi/sf
accepted
This proposal is planned.
arch/21k
arch/6502
arch/aarch64
arch/alpha
arch/amdgcn
arch/arc
arch/arc32
arch/arc64
arch/arm
arch/avr
arch/bfin
arch/bpf
arch/colossus
arch/cris
arch/csky
arch/dlx
arch/epiphany
arch/fr30
arch/frv
arch/hexagon
arch/hppa
arch/hppa64
arch/ia64
arch/kalimba
arch/kvx
arch/lanai
arch/lm32
arch/loongarch32
arch/loongarch64
arch/m32r
arch/m68k
arch/m88k
arch/mcore
arch/microblaze
arch/mips
arch/mips64
arch/mmix
arch/moxie
arch/mrisc32
arch/msp430
arch/nds32
arch/ns32k
arch/nvptx
arch/or1k
arch/powerpc
arch/powerpc64
arch/propeller
arch/riscv32
arch/riscv64
arch/rl78
arch/rx
arch/s390x
arch/sh
arch/sparc
arch/sparc64
arch/spirv
arch/spu
arch/tricore
arch/v850
arch/vax
arch/vc4
arch/ve
arch/wasm
arch/x86
arch/x86_64
arch/xcore
arch/xtensa
autodoc
The web application for interactive documentation and generation of its assets.
backend/c
The C backend outputs C source code.
backend/llvm
The LLVM backend outputs an LLVM bitcode module.
backend/self-hosted
The self-hosted backends produce machine code directly.
binutils
Zig's included binary utilities: zig ar, zig dlltool, zig lib, zig ranlib, zig objcopy, and zig rc.
breaking
Implementing this issue could cause existing code to no longer compile or have different behavior.
build system
The Zig build system - zig build, std.Build, the build runner, and package management.
debug info
An issue related to debug information (e.g. DWARF) produced by the Zig compiler.
docs
An issue with documentation, e.g. the language reference or standard library doc comments.
error message
This issue points out an error message that is unhelpful and should be improved.
frontend
Tokenization, parsing, AstGen, ZonGen, Sema, Legalize, and Liveness.
fuzzing
An issue related to Zig's integrated fuzz testing.
incremental
Reuse of internal compiler state for faster compilation.
lib/c
This issue relates to Zig's libc implementation and/or vendored libcs.
lib/compiler-rt
This issue relates to Zig's compiler-rt library.
lib/cxx
This issue relates to Zig's vendored libc++ and/or libc++abi.
lib/std
This issue relates to Zig's standard library.
lib/tsan
This issue relates to Zig's vendored libtsan.
lib/ubsan-rt
This issue relates to Zig's ubsan-rt library.
lib/unwind
This issue relates to Zig's vendored libunwind.
linking
Zig's integrated object file and incremental linker.
miscompilation
The compiler reports success but produces semantically incorrect code.
os/android
os/contiki
os/dragonfly
os/driverkit
os/emscripten
os/freebsd
os/fuchsia
os/haiku
os/hermit
os/hurd
os/illumos
os/ios
os/linux
os/maccatalyst
os/macos
os/managarm
os/netbsd
os/ohos
os/openbsd
os/plan9
os/redox
os/rtems
os/serenity
os/tvos
os/uefi
os/visionos
os/wasi
os/watchos
os/windows
proposal
This issue suggests language modifications. If it also has the "accepted" label then it is planned.
release notes
This issue or pull request should be mentioned in the release notes.
testing
This issue is related to testing the compiler, standard library, or other parts of Zig.
zig cc
Zig as a drop-in C-family compiler.
zig fmt
The Zig source code formatter.
zig reduce
The Zig source code reduction tool.
bounty
https://ziglang.org/news/announcing-donor-bounties
bug
Observed behavior contradicts documented or intended behavior.
contributor-friendly
This issue is limited in scope and/or knowledge of project internals.
downstream
An issue with a third-party project that uses this project.
enhancement
Solving this issue will likely involve adding new logic or components to the codebase.
infra
An issue related to project infrastructure, e.g. continuous integration.
optimization
A task to improve performance and/or resource usage.
question
No questions on the issue tracker; use a community space instead.
regression
Something that used to work in a previous version stopped working
upstream
An issue with a third-party project that this project uses.
use case
Describes a real use case that is difficult or impossible, but does not propose a solution.
No labels
abi/f32
abi/ilp32
abi/sf
accepted
arch/21k
arch/6502
arch/aarch64
arch/alpha
arch/amdgcn
arch/arc
arch/arc32
arch/arc64
arch/arm
arch/avr
arch/bfin
arch/bpf
arch/colossus
arch/cris
arch/csky
arch/dlx
arch/epiphany
arch/fr30
arch/frv
arch/hexagon
arch/hppa
arch/hppa64
arch/ia64
arch/kalimba
arch/kvx
arch/lanai
arch/lm32
arch/loongarch32
arch/loongarch64
arch/m32r
arch/m68k
arch/m88k
arch/mcore
arch/microblaze
arch/mips
arch/mips64
arch/mmix
arch/moxie
arch/mrisc32
arch/msp430
arch/nds32
arch/ns32k
arch/nvptx
arch/or1k
arch/powerpc
arch/powerpc64
arch/propeller
arch/riscv32
arch/riscv64
arch/rl78
arch/rx
arch/s390x
arch/sh
arch/sparc
arch/sparc64
arch/spirv
arch/spu
arch/tricore
arch/v850
arch/vax
arch/vc4
arch/ve
arch/wasm
arch/x86
arch/x86_64
arch/xcore
arch/xtensa
autodoc
backend/c
backend/llvm
backend/self-hosted
binutils
breaking
build system
debug info
docs
error message
frontend
fuzzing
incremental
lib/c
lib/compiler-rt
lib/cxx
lib/std
lib/tsan
lib/ubsan-rt
lib/unwind
linking
miscompilation
os/android
os/contiki
os/dragonfly
os/driverkit
os/emscripten
os/freebsd
os/fuchsia
os/haiku
os/hermit
os/hurd
os/illumos
os/ios
os/linux
os/maccatalyst
os/macos
os/managarm
os/netbsd
os/ohos
os/openbsd
os/plan9
os/redox
os/rtems
os/serenity
os/tvos
os/uefi
os/visionos
os/wasi
os/watchos
os/windows
proposal
release notes
testing
zig cc
zig fmt
zig reduce
bounty
bug
contributor-friendly
downstream
enhancement
infra
optimization
question
regression
upstream
use case
Milestone
Clear milestone
No items
No milestone
Projects
Clear projects
No items
No project
Assignees
Clear assignees
No assignees
4 participants
Notifications
Due date
The due date is invalid or out of range. Please use the format "yyyy-mm-dd".

No due date set.

Dependencies

No dependencies set.

Reference
ziglang/zig#35379
Reference in a new issue
ziglang/zig
No description provided.
Delete branch "%!s()"

Deleting a branch is permanent. Although the deleted branch may continue to exist for a short time before it actually gets removed, it CANNOT be undone in most cases. Continue?