Grant applications #32

Ghost commented 2022年11月12日 10:05:18 +01:00

Bonjour,

There is a first grant application opportunity for Codename with the December 1st NLnet deadline. I have some experience applying for grants, for instance to further forge federation which will start in a few weeks.

The amount requested would be 50,000€.

The goal of the grant would be to help Codename move forward in the direction we've been discussing here and in the chatroom for the past two weeks.

Since the deadline is near, I will draft and submit a grant application while this discussion continues. There is no harm in doing this in parallel: the review process takes months and it is perfectly fine to withdraw at any time.

If anyone has reservations and think it would be counterproductive to send such a grant application on such short notice, please speak up.

Cheers

Bonjour, There is a first grant application opportunity for Codename with the [December 1st](https://nlnet.nl/news/2022/20221001-call.html) NLnet deadline. I have some experience [applying for grants](https://forum.forgefriends.org/c/funding/5), for instance to further [forge federation](https://forum.forgefriends.org/t/nlnet-grant-application-for-federation-in-gitea-deadline-august-1st-2022/823) which will start in a few weeks. The amount requested would be 50,000€. The goal of the grant would be to help Codename move forward in the direction we've been [discussing here](https://codeberg.org/codename/meta/issues/24) and in the chatroom for the past two weeks. Since the deadline is near, I will draft and submit a grant application while this discussion continues. There is no harm in doing this in parallel: the review process takes months and it is perfectly fine to withdraw at any time. If anyone has reservations and think it would be counterproductive to send such a grant application on such short notice, please speak up. Cheers

Ghost commented 2022年11月12日 12:08:47 +01:00

@fnetX would you be willing to be the primary beneficiary of this grant? You are a perfect candidate. I'll do all the legwork, as I did for the other grant, your overhead will be minimal. In the range of a few hours over the next four months or so in total. You will not need to commit to complete any task. If you don't do any you won't get money. If you complete a task you'll get money. This is a philantropic donation and compatible with any employment contract you will have for the duration of the grant.

What do you think?

@fnetX would you be willing to be the primary beneficiary of this grant? You are a perfect candidate. I'll do all the legwork, as I did for [the other grant](https://forum.forgefriends.org/t/nlnet-grant-application-for-federation-in-gitea-deadline-august-1st-2022/823), your overhead will be minimal. In the range of a few hours over the next four months or so in total. You will not need to commit to complete any task. If you don't do any you won't get money. If you complete a task you'll get money. This is a philantropic donation and compatible with any employment contract you will have for the duration of the grant. What do you think?

Ghost commented 2022年11月12日 12:15:31 +01:00

For the record I asked @oliverpool in the chatroom and @Ryuno-Ki as well. I think a grant application where @fnetX is the primary beneficiary with @oliverpool, @Ryuno-Ki and myself as secondary beneficiaries stands a good chance to be accepted and completed successfully.

In case someone wonders why I'm not asking other people with a record of Gitea code contributions involved in Codename, it's because they already have funding in related projects (captcha, forge federation) 🙂

For the record I asked @oliverpool [in the chatroom](https://matrix.to/#/!qjPHwFPdxhpLkXMkyP:matrix.org/0ドルMTyPS4-mvJXPIlb4pEeC9KbMrojhHY5dxtk_o87Qcw?via=matrix.org&via=exozy.me&via=tchncs.de) and @Ryuno-Ki [as well](https://matrix.to/#/!qjPHwFPdxhpLkXMkyP:matrix.org/$H9xPmtwOH3DiJUsp3EF9I05xyzlJjBILP8FOOMRv8dU?via=matrix.org&via=exozy.me&via=tchncs.de). I think a grant application where @fnetX is the primary beneficiary with @oliverpool, @Ryuno-Ki and myself as secondary beneficiaries stands a good chance to be accepted and completed successfully. In case someone wonders why I'm not asking other people with a record of Gitea code contributions involved in Codename, it's because they already have funding in related projects (captcha, forge federation) 🙂

Ryuno-Ki commented 2022年11月12日 12:18:06 +01:00

I try to get a hold on you to discuss this for several days now ._.

I try to get a hold on you to discuss this for several days now ._.

Ghost commented 2022年11月12日 12:23:10 +01:00

I apologize, private discussions are something I tend to overlook 😊

We can have a conversation today if you'd like, I'm available whenever you want. The recording will likely be very useful to other people intersted in this topic.

I apologize, private discussions are something I tend to overlook 😊 We can have a conversation today if you'd like, I'm available whenever you want. The recording will likely be very useful to other people intersted in this topic.

Ryuno-Ki commented 2022年11月12日 13:21:17 +01:00

It happened.
Recording (audio only) will be published here or over at https://forum.forgefriends.org/t/consideration-for-applying-at-nlnet-grant-deadline-1st-dec-2022/925/6 and crosslinked.

Thanks for your time, @dachary!

It happened. Recording (audio only) will be published here or over at https://forum.forgefriends.org/t/consideration-for-applying-at-nlnet-grant-deadline-1st-dec-2022/925/6 and crosslinked. Thanks for your time, @dachary!

Ghost commented 2022年11月12日 13:25:20 +01:00

The 40 minutes recording of our conversation is available here as well https://cloud.forgefriends.org/s/enpEKzYH3HFbnA9

The 40 minutes recording of our conversation is available here as well https://cloud.forgefriends.org/s/enpEKzYH3HFbnA9

Ryuno-Ki commented 2022年11月12日 16:48:16 +01:00

Created a pad https://pad.gusted.xyz/kYEJ64eaS-qn05szGu_7fg and updated the forum:
https://forum.forgefriends.org/t/consideration-for-applying-at-nlnet-grant-deadline-1st-dec-2022/925/8

Created a pad https://pad.gusted.xyz/kYEJ64eaS-qn05szGu_7fg and updated the forum: https://forum.forgefriends.org/t/consideration-for-applying-at-nlnet-grant-deadline-1st-dec-2022/925/8

Ryuno-Ki commented 2022年11月13日 00:04:52 +01:00

I went through the August grant application today and took some notes (saved as local copy, just in case).

I also read the examplary intake document.

Right now, the pad is more like a brainstormed document, but I welcome you to read it already. There are more questions than answer to me ^^"
If you want to comment, please use some kind of indication what part is of you (Initials, italics or similar), so I can (a) spot what was not by me and (b) get back to you in case there is a need for communication.

If I have to limit myself (Dachary mentioned something between 6 months to a year) I would go with either moderation across instances or issue management. Both will require quite some research, likely with interviews. I'm not sure whether those can be „billed". But yeah, take a look and let me know your thoughts.

In case there is a coworking space next Monday I will try to attend (unless work appointments get in the way).

I went through the August grant application today and took some notes (saved as local copy, just in case). I also read the examplary intake document. Right now, the pad is more like a brainstormed document, but I welcome you to read it already. There are more questions than answer to me ^^" If you want to comment, please use some kind of indication what part is of you (Initials, italics or similar), so I can (a) spot what was not by me and (b) get back to you in case there is a need for communication. If I have to limit myself (Dachary mentioned something between 6 months to a year) I would go with either moderation across instances or issue management. Both will require quite some research, likely with interviews. I'm not sure whether those can be „billed". But yeah, take a look and let me know your thoughts. In case there is a coworking space next Monday I will try to attend (unless work appointments get in the way).

Ghost commented 2022年11月13日 00:46:27 +01:00

@Ryuno-Ki would you mind moving the comment above to https://forum.forgefriends.org/t/consideration-for-applying-at-nlnet-grant-deadline-1st-dec-2022/925 ? This issue is about the "codename" grant and I suppose you meant to get feedback on your own solo proposal. Or am I mistaken?

@Ryuno-Ki would you mind moving the comment above to https://forum.forgefriends.org/t/consideration-for-applying-at-nlnet-grant-deadline-1st-dec-2022/925 ? This issue is about the "codename" grant and I suppose you meant to get feedback on your own solo proposal. Or am I mistaken?

circlebuilder commented 2022年11月13日 03:55:29 +01:00

I did not see it mentioned yet, but there's another approach for fundraising / grants that may be interesting option to consider for the December 1st NLnet proposal..

Forgers Guild collective fundraising

Forgers Guild is a strategic ecosystem alliance. There's a range of projects that have shown interest to be part of the guild. All these projects are thinking of grants to write for various programs. All these projects are aligned and share common goals.

By smartly aligning grant proposals as well, such that they fit together neatly like in a puzzle, they can be submitted to NLnet as part of a larger 'package'.

Being part of the Guild adds extra strength this way, while the project / guild member remains 100% independent and the proposals call stand fully on their own.

Coordinated fundraising can (should?) be part of the set of internal-facing services Forgers Guild offers to members, and part of the range of activities which make it attractive for more other projects to apply for membership of the Guild once it is established.

(I will also transfer this text to the Forgers Guild pad)

I did not see it mentioned yet, but there's another approach for fundraising / grants that may be interesting option to consider for the December 1st NLnet proposal.. ### Forgers Guild collective fundraising Forgers Guild is a _strategic_ ecosystem alliance. There's a range of projects that have shown interest to be part of the guild. All these projects are thinking of grants to write for various programs. All these projects are aligned and share common goals. By smartly aligning grant proposals as well, such that they fit together neatly like in a puzzle, they can be submitted to NLnet as part of a larger 'package'. Being part of the Guild adds extra strength this way, while the project / guild member remains 100% independent and the proposals call stand fully on their own. Coordinated fundraising can (should?) be part of the set of internal-facing services Forgers Guild offers to members, and part of the range of activities which make it attractive for more other projects to apply for membership of the Guild once it is established. (I will also transfer this text to the [Forgers Guild](https://forg.es) pad)

Ghost commented 2022年11月13日 10:59:30 +01:00

If someone was working on coordinating grant applications in this way, I would happily be participate. It is worth ensuring various grants fit together as puzzle pieces. Do you think of someone who would have the time and the stamina to work in this direction?

If someone was working on coordinating grant applications in this way, I would happily be participate. It is worth ensuring various grants fit together as puzzle pieces. Do you think of someone who would have the time and the stamina to work in this direction?

Ryuno-Ki commented 2022年11月13日 12:21:13 +01:00

@dachary No, you're right. Just did so. Was too tired last night.

@dachary No, you're right. Just did so. Was too tired last night.

Ryuno-Ki commented 2022年11月13日 12:23:51 +01:00

I only started to collect funding options that I run into in https://discuss.coding.social/t/a-solution-for-sustaining-free-software-forge-development/186/3?u=ryuno-ki

I only started to collect funding options that I run into in https://discuss.coding.social/t/a-solution-for-sustaining-free-software-forge-development/186/3?u=ryuno-ki

circlebuilder commented 2022年11月13日 19:59:01 +01:00

@dachary "Do you think of someone who would have the time and the stamina to work in this direction?"

This I will make part of the Forger's Guild mechanics, where it is a shared responsibility. (Guilds will just be an organizational pattern.. it is member's collective energy + participation that makes them meaningful)

> @dachary "Do you think of someone who would have the time and the stamina to work in this direction?" This I will make part of the Forger's Guild mechanics, where it is a shared responsibility. (Guilds will just be an organizational pattern.. it is member's collective energy + participation that makes them meaningful)

Ghost commented 2022年11月14日 09:00:27 +01:00

@oliverpool @Ryuno-Ki @fnetX did you get a chance to think about whether you'd like to be beneficiaires of a grant to further Codename?

I'll draft a grant application today.

@oliverpool @Ryuno-Ki @fnetX did you get a chance to think about whether you'd like to be beneficiaires of a grant to further Codename? I'll draft a grant application today.

Ghost commented 2022年11月14日 09:20:36 +01:00

The https://codeberg.org/codename/funding repository was created and the details of the grant will be at codename/funding#1.

The https://codeberg.org/codename/funding repository was created and the details of the grant will be at https://codeberg.org/codename/funding/issues/1.

fnetX commented 2022年11月14日 17:21:22 +01:00

did you get a chance to think about whether you'd like to be beneficiaires of a grant to further Codename?

Not really. I know that receiving such grants is not a problem tax-wise, but it likely is with my health insurance. As far as I know, I'd even have to calculate birthday presents, and if my average monthly income exceeds a certain threshold, I'd need to pay an increased monthly fee.

I currently lack the nerves to figure this out. Sorry. I'm available if you cannot find other people, but I happily step back here.

> did you get a chance to think about whether you'd like to be beneficiaires of a grant to further Codename? Not really. I know that receiving such grants is not a problem tax-wise, but it likely is with my health insurance. As far as I know, I'd even have to calculate birthday presents, and if my average monthly income exceeds a certain threshold, I'd need to pay an increased monthly fee. I currently lack the nerves to figure this out. Sorry. I'm available if you cannot find other people, but I happily step back here.

Ryuno-Ki commented 2022年11月14日 21:16:00 +01:00

I talked to Dachary about this today in the coworking call.
My suggestion was to agree to be a beneficiary to raise our chances of receiving money in the first place.

I have other things to organise by then (insurance, as you mentioned, among them) but it looks like that a withdrawal is always possible until the MoU is signed.

I talked to Dachary about this today in the coworking call. My suggestion was to agree to be a beneficiary to raise our chances of receiving money in the first place. I have other things to organise by then (insurance, as you mentioned, among them) but it looks like that a withdrawal is always possible until the MoU is signed.

Ghost commented 2022年11月14日 21:31:23 +01:00

@Ryuno-Ki you being on board makes a very good combination. I won't say it enough: your UI skills are rare and needed.

@oliverpool if you're also on board, I'll update the draft grant. If you have reservations (that's a lot to take in), I'll need to rethink the approach.

What do you think?

@Ryuno-Ki you being on board makes a very good combination. I won't say it enough: your UI skills are rare and needed. @oliverpool if you're also on board, I'll update the [draft grant](https://pad.gusted.xyz/P3oySzXeSr-uFy_Kow0qaA). If you have reservations (that's a lot to take in), I'll need to rethink the approach. What do you think?

oliverpool commented 2022年11月15日 15:00:00 +01:00

@dachary sorry for the lack of reaction from my part (familiy visit until tonight :).

I would be happy to help you develop codename further!

About me:

• as a freelancer, I can be quite flexible regarding my work time (half of it is sold to a very good customer of mine, the rest is split between open source projects and family)
• I like working with go and have accumulated quite some experience over the years (I can quickly grasp a large codebase and find my way, in order to achieve my goals)

The main drawbacks that I identified:

• I haven't worked much with Gitea until now (only 3 merged PRs to support the Authorization header for webhooks)
• I don't have any experience with federation (I understand the concept of PubSub, but never actually looked at the details or any implementation)

Maybe I can initially help with code reviews of @Ryuno-Ki 's work und later step up for actual development.

Another aspect that would interest me, would be the inter-project communications (hosting my code on Codeberg, triggering builds on sourcehut, returning a commit status notification...). This can surely wait a bit (the time that I get familiar with forgefed, to see how it could fit there).

@dachary sorry for the lack of reaction from my part (familiy visit until tonight :). I would be happy to help you develop codename further! About me: - as a freelancer, I can be quite flexible regarding my work time (half of it is sold to a very good customer of mine, the rest is split between [open source projects](https://codeberg.org/pfad.fr/) and family) - I like working with go and have accumulated quite some experience over the years (I can quickly grasp a large codebase and find my way, in order to achieve my goals) The main drawbacks that I identified: - I haven't worked much with Gitea until now (only [3 merged PRs](https://github.com/go-gitea/gitea/pulls?q=is%3Apr+is%3Aclosed+author%3Aoliverpool) to support the Authorization header for webhooks) - I don't have any experience with federation (I understand the concept of PubSub, but never actually looked at the details or any implementation) Maybe I can initially help with code reviews of @Ryuno-Ki 's work und later step up for actual development. Another aspect that would interest me, would be the inter-project communications (hosting my code on Codeberg, triggering builds on sourcehut, returning a commit status notification...). This can surely wait a bit (the time that I get familiar with forgefed, to see how it could fit there).

Ghost commented 2022年11月15日 17:24:50 +01:00

@oliverpool it would indeed be better if you had more experience but I don't think that's a problem as long as other beneficiaries do. You bring very rare qualities to this grant application: being a Go developper, used to Free Software contributions and the will to work on improving Codename.

Forge federation is what I've been focusing on for the past two years and what I will primarily work on. But in the context of this grant the focus should be less about developing federated features (this are already funded) and more about distributing a stable release that includes them and that can effectively be deployed and used by anyone. Going from exprimental to prototype to stable.

So I fully expect the work will be more about figuring out why those features (i) crash, (ii) create security risks, (iii) hurt performances, (iv) complexify the UX, (v), complexify the upgrades, (vi) increase unsollicited content etc. And fixing them wich requires an understanding of the codebase and the ability to work on a proper fix.

Having new on board is great news, that makes me very happy.

@oliverpool it would indeed be better if you had more experience but I don't think that's a problem as long as other beneficiaries do. You bring very rare qualities to this grant application: being a Go developper, used to Free Software contributions and the will to work on improving Codename. Forge federation is what I've been focusing on for the past two years and what I will primarily work on. But in the context of this grant the focus should be less about developing federated features (this are [already funded](https://forum.forgefriends.org/t/nlnet-grant-application-for-federation-in-gitea-deadline-august-1st-2022/823)) and more about distributing a stable release that includes them and that can effectively be deployed and used by anyone. Going from exprimental to prototype to stable. So I fully expect the work will be more about figuring out why those features (i) crash, (ii) create security risks, (iii) hurt performances, (iv) complexify the UX, (v), complexify the upgrades, (vi) increase unsollicited content etc. And fixing them wich requires an understanding of the codebase and the ability to work on a proper fix. Having new on board is great news, that makes me very happy.

Ghost commented 2022年11月17日 12:21:35 +01:00

@fnetX I realized today that Codeberg e.V. could be a beneficiary of the grant application as it would allow it to pay mini-jobs to work on Forgejo. Making this happen is likely to be a long conversation, but I think it is well worth the effort. The application process is 4 months long from start to finish: that's plenty of time. Do you see any reason why I should not go in this direction?

@fnetX I realized today that Codeberg e.V. could be a beneficiary of the grant application as it would allow it to pay mini-jobs to work on Forgejo. Making this happen is likely to be a long conversation, but I think it is well worth the effort. The application process is 4 months long from start to finish: that's plenty of time. Do you see any reason why I should not go in this direction?

fnetX commented 2022年11月17日 13:53:07 +01:00

No, this sounds good.
However, please keep in mind that office work is currently a bottleneck for Codeberg. We actually have some money which we could already pay to people, but we're lacking behind with office work a lot.
I hope to resolve this, but I'm just mentioning here so that you have this in mind and try to reduce the amount of paperwork required on our side.
The advantage of havingan rganization like Codeberg pay the jobs is that you can combine different income streams into one job and keep the paperwork for the people who actually work on the software projects low. They don't have to fear that their job ends, because the Codeberg e.V. can act as a buffer until other income streams are open.

No, this sounds good. However, please keep in mind that office work is currently a bottleneck for Codeberg. We actually have some money which we could already pay to people, but we're lacking behind with office work a lot. I hope to resolve this, but I'm just mentioning here so that you have this in mind and try to reduce the amount of paperwork required on our side. The advantage of havingan rganization like Codeberg pay the jobs is that you can combine different income streams into one job and keep the paperwork for the people who actually work on the software projects low. They don't have to fear that their job ends, because the Codeberg e.V. can act as a buffer until other income streams are open.

Ghost commented 2022年11月17日 14:25:08 +01:00

The amount of paperwork on Codeberg e.V. side for an NLnet grant is:

• Read & sign the Memoradum of Understanding (in 4 months if all goes well)
• Provide an IBAN

If the funds are exclusively used to pay people who already have an employment contract (@6543 for instance), that's all there is to it and that would work fine.

The amount of paperwork on Codeberg e.V. side for an NLnet grant is: * Read & sign the Memoradum of Understanding (in 4 months if all goes well) * Provide an IBAN If the funds are exclusively used to pay people who already have an employment contract (@6543 for instance), that's all there is to it and that would work fine.

Ghost commented 2022年11月24日 15:56:04 +01:00

The work continues in the funding repository.

The work continues in the [funding repository](https://codeberg.org/forgejo/funding/issues/1).