[AGREEMENT] earl-warren application to the moderation team #195

earl-warren commented 2023年03月16日 12:14:46 +01:00

Redirected to forgejo/governance#10

Redirected to https://codeberg.org/forgejo/governance/issues/10

Ryuno-Ki commented 2023年03月16日 12:43:54 +01:00

Hm, are you open to comments on those pledges? I have opinions here that might make you adjust them. Therefore I'd like to voice them early so others have a chance to consider before they vote.

Hm, are you open to comments on those pledges? I have opinions here that might make you adjust them. Therefore I'd like to voice them early so others have a chance to consider before they vote.

earl-warren commented 2023年03月16日 14:38:48 +01:00

I welcome any comment or questions you may have on how to improve the moderation process. This is a conversation that is good to have. You could create a new issue or comment on the proposed decision making process: I will follow up either way.

For the sake of keeping this conversation focused, please only express your reservations and concerns regarding my application in this issue.

I welcome any comment or questions you may have on how to improve the moderation process. This is a conversation that is good to have. You could create a new issue or comment on the [proposed decision making process](https://codeberg.org/forgejo-contrib/governance/src/branch/main/DECISION-MAKING.md): I will follow up either way. For the sake of keeping this conversation focused, please only express your reservations and concerns regarding my application in this issue.

Ryuno-Ki commented 2023年03月16日 20:55:39 +01:00

I take your word on it.

I pledge to answer any request related to moderation within at most 24h.

My concern is about the timelines you list in your pledges. If I were to nail you down on it there would be no vacation, no holidays, no family time etc. for the 24h response.
That's unhealthy in my opinion.

If there is an agreement for me to be a member of the team, I pledge to apply again a year later.

The other pledge about a re-application could also be hard to follow up on. There's a lot that can happen in the span of a year. I get your intention but it's not reflected in the language.

Now I want to interpret it in good faith. But depending on binding this pledge is considered the current language could act to your disadvantage.

I take your word on it. > I pledge to answer any request related to moderation within at most 24h. My concern is about the timelines you list in your pledges. If I were to nail you down on it there would be no vacation, no holidays, no family time etc. for the 24h response. That's unhealthy in my opinion. > If there is an agreement for me to be a member of the team, I pledge to apply again a year later. The other pledge about a re-application could also be hard to follow up on. There's a lot that can happen in the span of a year. I get your intention but it's not reflected in the language. Now I want to interpret it in good faith. But depending on binding this pledge is considered the current language could act to your disadvantage.

earl-warren commented 2023年03月16日 23:26:55 +01:00

My concern is about the timelines you list in your pledges. If I were to nail you down on it there would be no vacation, no holidays, no family time etc. for the 24h response.

I should have clarified why this response delay is not a problem for me, good catch. Here is what I added to the background part:

My day job requires me to be on call 24/7, with a required response time of 4 hours. I am generously compensated for the inconvenience. This makes it possible for me to be available with a longer response time (24h) for the benefit of Forgejo. It does not mean that such an availability is to be expected from every member of the moderation team: my situation is exceptional in this way.

The other pledge about a re-application could also be hard to follow up on.

I don't understand why another application similar to this one (but not identical because, as you say, a lot can happen in a year) would be hard to follow up on. Can you explain?

Now I want to interpret it in good faith. But depending on binding this pledge is considered the current language could act to your disadvantage.

I very much appreciate your concern for my well-being, thank you.

> My concern is about the timelines you list in your pledges. If I were to nail you down on it there would be no vacation, no holidays, no family time etc. for the 24h response. I should have clarified why this response delay is not a problem for me, good catch. Here is what I added to the background part: > My day job requires me to be on call 24/7, with a required response time of 4 hours. I am generously compensated for the inconvenience. This makes it possible for me to be available with a longer response time (24h) for the benefit of Forgejo. It does not mean that such an availability is to be expected from every member of the moderation team: my situation is exceptional in this way. > The other pledge about a re-application could also be hard to follow up on. I don't understand why another application similar to this one (but not identical because, as you say, a lot can happen in a year) would be hard to follow up on. Can you explain? > Now I want to interpret it in good faith. But depending on binding this pledge is considered the current language could act to your disadvantage. I very much appreciate your concern for my well-being, thank you.

Ryuno-Ki commented 2023年03月17日 13:34:31 +01:00

I don't understand why another application similar to this one (but not identical because, as you say, a lot can happen in a year) would be hard to follow up on. Can you explain?

Happy to do so.

It basically revolves around the fact, that a year is hard to forecast.
I hope you will still be around in that timespan. But there's too much uncertainty. For example, what if you loose your job? Move houses? Loose interest because of drama?

There are so many unknowns, that I would rather phrase it like:

If there is an agreement for me to be a member of the team, I pledge to consider applyomg again a year later.

The consideration could then be „nope, I can't do it". An escape hatch, if you will.

> I don't understand why another application similar to this one (but not identical because, as you say, a lot can happen in a year) would be hard to follow up on. Can you explain? Happy to do so. It basically revolves around the fact, that a year is hard to forecast. I hope you will still be around in that timespan. But there's too much uncertainty. For example, what if you loose your job? Move houses? Loose interest because of drama? There are so many unknowns, that I would rather phrase it like: > If there is an agreement for me to be a member of the team, I pledge to consider applyomg again a year later. The consideration could then be „nope, I can't do it". An escape hatch, if you will.

earl-warren commented 2023年03月17日 13:36:34 +01:00

Oh, I see. I changed it to:

If there is an agreement for me to be a member of the team, I pledge to apply again a year later, if I'm available at the time.

Oh, I see. I changed it to: > If there is an agreement for me to be a member of the team, I pledge to apply again a year later, if I'm available at the time.

Ryuno-Ki commented 2023年03月17日 13:38:01 +01:00

Last night another item came to my mind. This one is a bit more personal in nature so I would totally understand if you don't want to answer it. In either case having some sign of having read it would be helpful.

You wrote

I do not have any experience in moderation, but I'm willing to try my best.

Now we had a handful of ... unpleasant experiences here. If you look up how moderators are treated in Social Media and elsewhere you will notice that there could be cases that are mentally challenging.

My question now:

Do you have a network that you can reach out to if something becomes so stressful that it would affect your mental health negatively? Even consider a psychotherapist in extreme cases?

Now I hope we won't reach this level at all. But I'd also not want to see moderators giving up all at once again.

As I said, this one is personal in nature. Feel free to pass on it. Especially since it wasn't asked other moderators in the past.

Last night another item came to my mind. This one is a bit more personal in nature so I would totally understand if you don't want to answer it. In either case having some sign of having read it would be helpful. You wrote > I do not have any experience in moderation, but I'm willing to try my best. Now we had a handful of ... unpleasant experiences here. If you look up how moderators are treated in Social Media and elsewhere you will notice that there could be cases that are mentally challenging. My question now: Do you have a network that you can reach out to if something becomes so stressful that it would affect your mental health negatively? Even consider a psychotherapist in extreme cases? Now I hope we won't reach this level at all. But I'd also not want to see moderators giving up all at once again. As I said, this one is personal in nature. Feel free to pass on it. Especially since it wasn't asked other moderators in the past.

earl-warren commented 2023年03月17日 13:42:39 +01:00

I appreciate the advice but I will take your offer to pass. It is more scrutiny than a volunteer moderator position deserves.

Thanks for your understanding.

I appreciate the advice but I will take your offer to pass. It is more scrutiny than a volunteer moderator position deserves. Thanks for your understanding.

Ryuno-Ki commented 2023年03月17日 13:43:32 +01:00

Thank you. Now my concerns are adressed.

Thank you. Now my concerns are adressed.

caesar commented 2023年03月22日 05:23:23 +01:00

Thank your for applying to this role @earl-warren, it is a very important position which will require a lot of thankless hard work and responsibility. I am glad someone feels able to commit to it. (Hopefully more than one person.)

I do not feel able to vote on this application at this point in time due to my absence from the Forgejo project over the recent period when many moderation issues erupted. Additionally, I admit that I have not yet had time to fully read the decision making process.

However, I do have some questions:

• What is the deadline for voting on this application?

• I think there are currently no other applicants to the moderation team. Assuming that is the case, will moderation decisions be unilateral?

• Regarding this pledge:

  I pledge to finalize and implement the draft moderation process within at most two weeks.

  will the finalized moderation process be subject to community approval before being adopted?

• Regarding this pledge:

  If there is an agreement for me to be a member of the team, I pledge to apply again a year later, if I'm available at the time.

  It is implicit that a membership of this (or any?) team only lasts for one year unless a member is re-elected. Is this made explicit anywhere?

Finally, in the interests of full transparency, I would ask that you include a footnote in your application mentioning the recent unilateral enforcement action you undertook, as – whether justified or not – I feel it is material to people's consideration of your application.

Thank your for applying to this role @earl-warren, it is a very important position which will require a lot of thankless hard work and responsibility. I am glad someone feels able to commit to it. (Hopefully more than one person.) I do not feel able to vote on this application at this point in time due to my absence from the Forgejo project over the recent period when many moderation issues erupted. Additionally, I admit that I have not yet had time to fully read the decision making process. However, I do have some questions: - What is the deadline for voting on this application? - I think there are currently no other applicants to the moderation team. Assuming that is the case, will moderation decisions be unilateral? - Regarding this pledge: > I pledge to finalize and implement the draft moderation process within at most two weeks. will the finalized moderation process be subject to community approval before being adopted? - Regarding this pledge: > If there is an agreement for me to be a member of the team, I pledge to apply again a year later, if I'm available at the time. It is implicit that a membership of this (or any?) team only lasts for one year unless a member is re-elected. Is this made explicit anywhere? Finally, in the interests of full transparency, I would ask that you include a footnote in your application mentioning the recent unilateral enforcement action you undertook, as – whether justified or not – I feel it is material to people's consideration of your application.

forgejo-moderation commented 2023年03月22日 09:24:32 +01:00

A comment was deleted as part of an on-going moderation action.

A comment was deleted as part of an on-going moderation action.

earl-warren commented 2023年03月22日 10:02:17 +01:00

@caesar since governance decisions are now happening in another issue tracker, I will reply there forgejo/governance#10. I will lock this issue to avoid further confusion.

@caesar since governance decisions are now happening in another issue tracker, I will reply there https://codeberg.org/forgejo/governance/issues/10. I will lock this issue to avoid further confusion.

caesar commented 2023年03月22日 14:25:27 +01:00

Closing in favour of forgejo/governance#10.

Closing in favour of forgejo/governance#10.