Governance meeting - January 27, 2023 - 12 UTC #112

fr33domlover commented 2023年01月17日 12:06:28 +01:00

Friday, January 27. From 12 to 13:30 UTC. Jitsi link

Recording of the meeting (missing 15 minutes in the middle):

• https://codeberg.org/forgejo/meta/src/branch/readme/2023-01-27-videoconference-governance-part1.mp3
• https://codeberg.org/forgejo/meta/src/branch/readme/2023-01-27-videoconference-governance-part2.mp3

Comment below to suggest agenda items (and specify their priority if relevant).

Friday, January 27. From 12 to 13:30 UTC. [Jitsi link](https://meet.jit.si/IllLungsPunchMerely) Recording of the meeting (missing 15 minutes in the middle): * https://codeberg.org/forgejo/meta/src/branch/readme/2023-01-27-videoconference-governance-part1.mp3 * https://codeberg.org/forgejo/meta/src/branch/readme/2023-01-27-videoconference-governance-part2.mp3 Comment below to suggest agenda items (and specify their priority if relevant).

fr33domlover commented 2023年01月17日 12:35:28 +01:00

My items:

• Clear pathway for self-evolving and self-adapting the system from now on (e.g. video meeting every month where we surface challenges and adapt our agreements? but something everyone can commit to with trust in the process)
• Are we ready to launch the system? If yes, how to officially gather feedback/consent?

My items: - Clear pathway for self-evolving and self-adapting the system from now on (e.g. video meeting every month where we surface challenges and adapt our agreements? but something everyone can commit to with trust in the process) - Are we ready to launch the system? If yes, how to officially gather feedback/consent?

Ghost commented 2023年01月17日 15:20:54 +01:00

My items:

• Decision making process
• Teams which team should go first to resign / be appointed according to the decision making process?
• How to move forward for copyleft?
• How to move forward for paid staff commitment?

My items: * Decision making process * Teams which team should go first to resign / be appointed according to the decision making process? * How to move forward for [copyleft](https://codeberg.org/forgejo/meta/issues/86)? * How to move forward for [paid staff commitment](https://codeberg.org/forgejo/meta/issues/104)?

circlebuilder commented 2023年01月19日 05:07:05 +01:00

My items:

1. Scope / definition / topics of Governance?
2. Governance project track + kanban board (continual improvement)
3. Project structure change: Governance repo

Re 1) my definition of Governance is 'everything related to Forgejo project activities', but it is unclear to me what Forgejo's definition is.

Re 2) Forgejo is already governed, with the explicit and implicit procedures that currently exist. The big governance issue (#19) can be closed after splitting into follow-up issues (I see @fr33domlover already did part of that, and cross-ref to #111).

Re 3) I feel it is unclear that Meta repo has docs about Teams, Decision making, etc. and that there is a separate Sustainability repo. I'd propose a Governance repo that holds these docs and also contains the Sustainability. Everything regarding to governing a sustainable project in one place. (In other words, rename Sustainability to Governance and move docs from Meta to it).

My items: 1. Scope / definition / topics of Governance? 2. Governance project track + kanban board (continual improvement) 3. Project structure change: Governance repo Re 1) my definition of Governance is 'everything related to Forgejo project activities', but it is unclear to me what Forgejo's definition is. Re 2) Forgejo is already governed, with the explicit and implicit procedures that currently exist. The big governance issue (#19) can be closed after splitting into follow-up issues (I see @fr33domlover already did part of that, and cross-ref to #111). Re 3) I feel it is unclear that Meta repo has docs about Teams, Decision making, etc. and that there is a separate Sustainability repo. I'd propose a Governance repo that holds these docs and also contains the Sustainability. Everything regarding to governing a sustainable project in one place. (In other words, rename Sustainability to Governance and move docs from Meta to it).

fsologureng commented 2023年01月19日 16:50:07 +01:00

My items:

1. Community values documentation: I think there are more than currently listed, f.e. privacy care. And it should be added to the website.
2. Agreements documentation: We are advanced in new governance agreements as reader treatment and its scope is not clear to me; team agreement? communication team agreement (there isn't one)? community?

My items: 1. Community values documentation: I think there are more than [currently listed](https://codeberg.org/forgejo/meta/src/branch/readme/VALUES.md), f.e. privacy care. And it should be added to the website. 1. Agreements documentation: We are advanced in new governance agreements as [reader treatment](https://codeberg.org/forgejo/website/issues/66) and its scope is not clear to me; team agreement? communication team agreement (there isn't one)? community?

Ghost commented 2023年01月20日 11:56:37 +01:00

My items:

1. Scope / definition / topics of Governance?
2. Governance project track + kanban board (continual improvement)
3. Project structure change: Governance repo

Re 1) my definition of Governance is 'everything related to Forgejo project activities', but it is unclear to me what Forgejo's definition is.

Re 2) Forgejo is already governed, with the explicit and implicit procedures that currently exist. The big governance issue (#19) can be closed after splitting into follow-up issues (I see @fr33domlover already did part of that, and cross-ref to #111).

Re 3) I feel it is unclear that Meta repo has docs about Teams, Decision making, etc. and that there is a separate Sustainability repo. I'd propose a Governance repo that holds these docs and also contains the Sustainability. Everything regarding to governing a sustainable project in one place. (In other words, rename Sustainability to Governance and move docs from Meta to it).

@circlebuilder in your capacity as a mentor, this is your advice on how the work on governance could be organized. It is not you declaring you're going to maintain and create this organizational structure. Am I understanding correctly?

> My items: > > 1. Scope / definition / topics of Governance? > 2. Governance project track + kanban board (continual improvement) > 3. Project structure change: Governance repo > > Re 1) my definition of Governance is 'everything related to Forgejo project activities', but it is unclear to me what Forgejo's definition is. > > Re 2) Forgejo is already governed, with the explicit and implicit procedures that currently exist. The big governance issue (#19) can be closed after splitting into follow-up issues (I see @fr33domlover already did part of that, and cross-ref to #111). > > Re 3) I feel it is unclear that Meta repo has docs about Teams, Decision making, etc. and that there is a separate Sustainability repo. I'd propose a Governance repo that holds these docs and also contains the Sustainability. Everything regarding to governing a sustainable project in one place. (In other words, rename Sustainability to Governance and move docs from Meta to it). @circlebuilder in your capacity as a mentor, this is your advice on how the work on governance could be organized. It is not you declaring you're going to maintain and create this organizational structure. Am I understanding correctly?

rdwz commented 2023年01月20日 13:06:05 +01:00

Re 1) my definition of Governance is 'everything related to Forgejo project activities', but it is unclear to me what Forgejo's definition is.

YES. This needs to be defined, or the discussion about it needs to be adressed in general. The repeated desire for maximum privacy is a repeated discussion in many issues and some strong personal opinion are not quite suitetable for the project in general to grow or evolve or being strong enough as being the only USP so far..

And what about the "GiveUpGitHub' movement.. we shouldn't sleep on this!!

just my 2cents

edit: sorry to be a little off governance

> Re 1) my definition of Governance is 'everything related to Forgejo project activities', but it is unclear to me what Forgejo's definition is. YES. This needs to be defined, or the discussion about it needs to be adressed in general. The repeated desire for maximum privacy is a repeated discussion in many issues and some strong personal opinion are not quite suitetable for the project in general to grow or evolve or being strong enough as being the only USP so far.. And what about the "GiveUpGitHub' movement.. we shouldn't sleep on this!! just my 2cents edit: sorry to be a little off governance

Ghost commented 2023年01月20日 13:32:33 +01:00

@fr33domlover we are adjourning the meeting since you apparently were not able to join. Looking forward to resuming this another day. Not a time pressing issue though.

@fr33domlover we are adjourning the meeting since you apparently were not able to join. Looking forward to resuming this another day. Not a time pressing issue though.

fsologureng commented 2023年01月20日 14:39:35 +01:00

Re 3) I feel it is unclear that Meta repo has docs about Teams, Decision making, etc. and that there is a separate Sustainability repo. I'd propose a Governance repo that holds these docs and also contains the Sustainability. Everything regarding to governing a sustainable project in one place. (In other words, rename Sustainability to Governance and move docs from Meta to it).

I agree with a single repo for all the governing stuff.

> > Re 3) I feel it is unclear that Meta repo has docs about Teams, Decision making, etc. and that there is a separate Sustainability repo. I'd propose a Governance repo that holds these docs and also contains the Sustainability. Everything regarding to governing a sustainable project in one place. (In other words, rename Sustainability to Governance and move docs from Meta to it). > I agree with a single repo for all the governing stuff.

fr33domlover commented 2023年01月22日 20:33:15 +01:00

January 27, at 12 UTC (until 13:30 UTC) - will that work for everyone interested? @dachary ?

January 27, at 12 UTC (until 13:30 UTC) - will that work for everyone interested? @dachary ?

fsologureng commented 2023年01月23日 13:44:07 +01:00

January 27, at 12 UTC (until 13:30 UTC) - will that work for everyone interested?

Yes. Will works for me.

> January 27, at 12 UTC (until 13:30 UTC) - will that work for everyone interested? Yes. Will works for me.

fr33domlover commented 2023年01月24日 14:54:53 +01:00

My items:

• Decide whether to use a decision making table, and how to integrate it with the TEAMS file
• Explore and gather requirements for mechanism for appointing people to a role
• Decide whether we need a board AKA vision team, that will be responsible for the roadmap, and may include people from outside of Forgejo who are stakeholders / guardians, e.g. a person from Codeberg / a person from FSF / etc.

My items: - Decide whether to use a decision making table, and how to integrate it with the TEAMS file - Explore and gather requirements for mechanism for appointing people to a role - Decide whether we need a board AKA vision team, that will be responsible for the roadmap, and may include people from outside of Forgejo who are stakeholders / guardians, e.g. a person from Codeberg / a person from FSF / etc.

tallship commented 2023年01月27日 11:08:29 +01:00

Okay the meeting is in two hours.

what is the address?

and are we meeting in Jitsi or BBB this time,

Thanks!

⛵

.

Okay the meeting is in two hours. what is the address? and are we meeting in Jitsi or BBB this time, Thanks! ⛵ .

fr33domlover commented 2023年01月27日 16:48:53 +01:00

Meeting notes

[Meeting notes](https://codeberg.org/forgejo/meta/src/branch/readme/meeting-notes/2023-01-27.md)

tallship commented 2023年01月28日 07:26:48 +01:00

When one meeting has concluded we should create a new issue and link (refer) to that issue here.

This way, it can be followed. with the blitz of unfiltered information it is divine to know when there next meeting is.

Also, we did not address must if these agenda items here in this issue in last night's meeting, so they need to be migrated to the new issue as Old business.

Such items are (barring any extremely pressing matters) The first items in the agenda for the next meeting.

@fr33domlover , did you wish to create the issue tracker for the next meeting? I can do it if you like butt it will be opened without an actual date since we didn't set one last night before we adjourned.

When one meeting has concluded we should create a new issue and link (refer) to that issue here. This way, it can be followed. with the blitz of unfiltered information it is divine to know when there next meeting is. Also, we did not address must if these agenda items here in this issue in last night's meeting, so they need to be migrated to the new issue as **Old business**. Such items are (barring any extremely pressing matters) The first items in the agenda for the next meeting. @fr33domlover , did you wish to create the issue tracker for the next meeting? I can do it if you like butt it will be opened without an actual date since we didn't set one last night before we adjourned.

fr33domlover commented 2023年01月28日 21:02:01 +01:00

@tallship:

• Each meeting will have an issue opened, with a Meeting label, so look for those
• There's no time set yet for the next meeting; Once there is, I'll open an issue about it, and I'll paste there all the agenda items we didn't handle in the last meeting
• We'll prioritize items during the meeting itself, both by priority (with relation to the purpose, i.e. launching the governance system) and by time (making sure we address both old and new items during the meeting)

Will that work for you?

I also intend to maintain a meeting calendar to make it easier for people to track meetings (because an issue tracker really isn't very good at that, with its tons of notifications).

@tallship: - Each meeting will have an issue opened, with a Meeting label, so look for those - There's no time set yet for the next meeting; Once there is, I'll open an issue about it, and I'll paste there all the agenda items we didn't handle in the last meeting - We'll prioritize items during the meeting itself, both by priority (with relation to the purpose, i.e. launching the governance system) and by time (making sure we address both old and new items during the meeting) Will that work for you? I also intend to maintain a meeting calendar to make it easier for people to track meetings (because an issue tracker really isn't very good at that, with its tons of notifications).

circlebuilder commented 2023年01月29日 07:29:35 +01:00

FramaSoft offer FramaDate where people can specify the times they are available for meeting which allows to choose timeslots with largest no. of attendants. I've used it in a number of projects (e.g. Spritely Institute uses it).

FramaSoft offer [FramaDate](https://framadate.org/abc/en/) where people can specify the times they are available for meeting which allows to choose timeslots with largest no. of attendants. I've used it in a number of projects (e.g. Spritely Institute uses it).

tallship commented 2023年01月29日 22:52:25 +01:00

FramaSoft offer FramaDate where people can specify the times they are available for meeting which allows to choose timeslots with largest no. of attendants. I've used it in a number of projects (e.g. Spritely Institute uses it).

Yes and Framasoft's Mobilizon is also the calendar tool I recommend for these events since it's an actual Fediverse based calendar/event manager @fr33domlover . Further, Mobilizon federates with other event/calendar management systems on other Fediverse servers (Some of which I have an account with, so it's super convenient for me and other folks with Fediverse server accounts to receive notifications and updates).

Framadate was a great idea @circlebuilder , thanks for reminding us of that!

Oh, @fr33domlover , one thing: when you create the new issue pls make sure you tag the previous one (simply by inserting the issue number itself in the issue comment) and vice versa - that way, anyone perusing them can easily just follow the links forward and backward through each meeting chronologically. Trying to keep track of that in git, as you highlighted, is problematic, and the platform isn't designed to accommodate that sort of thing very well at all.

With respect to uploading the recordings, Funkwhale is the most appropriate platform to use for them (.mp3, etc), while PeerTube, as I originally suggested in chat would not be - unless of course, you create say, a sort of slide show of the topic being discussed at the moment as video, for example, since it's designed for things like .mp4 files snd not.mp3 files 🙂

> FramaSoft offer [FramaDate](https://framadate.org/abc/en/) where people can specify the times they are available for meeting which allows to choose timeslots with largest no. of attendants. I've used it in a number of projects (e.g. Spritely Institute uses it). Yes and Framasoft's **Mobilizon** is also the calendar tool I recommend for these events since it's an actual Fediverse based calendar/event manager @fr33domlover . Further, Mobilizon federates with other event/calendar management systems on other Fediverse servers (Some of which I have an account with, so it's super convenient for me and other folks with Fediverse server accounts to receive notifications and updates). **Framadate** was a great idea @circlebuilder , thanks for reminding us of that! Oh, @fr33domlover , one thing: when you create the new issue pls make sure you tag the previous one (simply by inserting the issue number itself in the issue comment) and vice versa - that way, anyone perusing them can easily just follow the links forward and backward through each meeting chronologically. Trying to keep track of that in git, as you highlighted, is problematic, and the platform isn't designed to accommodate that sort of thing very well at all. With respect to uploading the recordings, [Funkwhale](https://Open.Audio) is the most appropriate platform to use for them (.mp3, etc), while **PeerTube**, as I originally suggested in chat would not be - unless of course, you create say, a sort of slide show of the topic being discussed at the moment as video, for example, since it's designed for things like .mp4 files snd not.mp3 files 🙂

tallship commented 2023年01月29日 23:25:12 +01:00

Apologies, but I should also mention Castopod, yet I haven't fully vetted it's federating capabilities. I hesitate to suggest it for that reason, as well as the fact that their website makes nary a mention (if at all, still) of Fediverse integration or being ActivityPub powered - although they did promise me that they would update this on their site soon, when I pointed this out to them.

Still, FunkWhale is the traditional defacto standard and in another note, I did post the update for the current location of this meetings minutes at Social Coding.

Apologies, but I should also mention **Castopod**, yet I haven't fully vetted it's federating capabilities. I hesitate to suggest it for that reason, as well as the fact that their website makes nary a mention (if at all, still) of Fediverse integration or being ActivityPub powered - although they did promise me that they would update this on their site soon, when I pointed this out to them. Still, **FunkWhale** is the traditional defacto standard and in another note, I did post the update for the current location of this meetings minutes at [Social Coding](https://discuss.coding.social/t/transparent-project-governance/244).

Ryuno-Ki commented 2023年01月30日 13:07:15 +01:00

+1 for Mobilizon or Frama software. I looked in my calendar (in which I'm subscribed to Forgefriends calendar among others) and totally missed the monthly call.

So having some .ics to subscribe to to learn about new meetings would make my life so much easier.

+1 for Mobilizon or Frama software. I looked in my calendar (in which I'm subscribed to Forgefriends calendar among others) and totally missed the monthly call. So having some .ics to subscribe to to learn about new meetings would make my life so much easier.