Federation: Meeting with Sovereign Tech Agency #381

jerger commented 2025年08月20日 16:37:14 +02:00

For federation devs.

On Wed 27.08.2025 - 17:00 - 17:30 CET
At https://jitsi.sovereigntechfund.de/ShortHopesCrossTherefore

At froscon we was asked to come in contact with STA.

I think we get known each other & discuss about roadmap and questions around funding.

Meeting Minutes will occure here:
https://codeberg.org/forgejo/sustainability/

For federation devs. On Wed 27.08.2025 - 17:00 - 17:30 CET At https://jitsi.sovereigntechfund.de/ShortHopesCrossTherefore At froscon we was asked to come in contact with STA. I think we get known each other & discuss about roadmap and questions around funding. Meeting Minutes will occure here: https://codeberg.org/forgejo/sustainability/

jerger commented 2025年08月20日 16:42:26 +02:00

Questions in my Mind are:

1. What is important for STA to fund?
2. How does funding work at STA (compared to NLnet)?
   1. Who can be beneficiary (the project?, individuals?, organizations?)
   2. What amount of deliverables should we describe upfront?
   3. What are the time constraints for realization?
3. How can fundings coexist (NLnet & STA)?

Questions in my Mind are: 1. What is important for STA to fund? 2. How does funding work at STA (compared to NLnet)? 1. Who can be beneficiary (the project?, individuals?, organizations?) 2. What amount of deliverables should we describe upfront? 3. What are the time constraints for realization? 3. How can fundings coexist (NLnet & STA)?

earl-warren commented 2025年08月20日 18:39:44 +02:00

For cross referencing purposes, last year discussion and application is found at forgejo/sustainability#49 and #185.

For cross referencing purposes, last year discussion and application is found at https://codeberg.org/forgejo/sustainability/pulls/49 and https://codeberg.org/forgejo/discussions/issues/185.

earl-warren commented 2025年08月20日 18:58:48 +02:00

@jerger wrote in #381 (comment):

Questions in my Mind are:

I think most of those were already discussed last year. But not 100% I suspect.

@jerger wrote in #381 (comment):

Meeting Minutes will occure here:
https://codeberg.org/forgejo-contrib/federation/src/branch/main/meeting-minutes

For the sake of transparency, can you please archive them in Forgejo spaces? https://codeberg.org/forgejo/sustainability/ is a good fit.

My inclination would be to have all those discussions in the sustainability repository because it makes them easier to find. But I don't feel strongly about it, there are pros and cons.

---

TL:DR: Everything in Forgejo spaces is transparent. Private conversations and dealings stay private and are not to be partially hinted or mentioned in Forgejo spaces.

On the matter of transparency (and because there has been publicly documented misunderstanding in the recent past), I will re-iterate that it is very simple: in Forgejo space transparency means everything is documented in Forgejo space (redacted only to protect private data about individuals like names addresses etc.). There are no exceptions, nothing to negotiate: it is what it is. Simple and transparent.

That said it is perfectly fine for an individual or a company to have entirely private discussions, contracts, etc. outside of Forgejo spaces. For instance a partnership between two companies that is on the topic of providing Forgejo services can be entirely private. In other words, what anyone does with Forgejo outside of Forgejo space is only bound by the license of the software. And absolutely not by the Forgejo governance or expectation of transparency.

That has consequences that may not be immediately intuitive: it is not possible to become transparent after the fact. A concrete example is if A is paid by B to develop a new feature, all in private. What is in line with Forgejo expectation for transparency is for the feature to be sent as a pull request with zero references to the private circumstances that led to its creation. What is not not transparent is if the pull request is advertised to be (for instance) "sponsored by B" because there really is no way to know anything more. It happened in private, it stays private.

@jerger wrote in https://codeberg.org/forgejo/discussions/issues/381#issuecomment-6611041: > Questions in my Mind are: I think most of those were already discussed last year. But not 100% I suspect. @jerger wrote in https://codeberg.org/forgejo/discussions/issues/381#issue-2204656: > Meeting Minutes will occure here: > https://codeberg.org/forgejo-contrib/federation/src/branch/main/meeting-minutes For the sake of transparency, can you please archive them in Forgejo spaces? https://codeberg.org/forgejo/sustainability/ is a good fit. My inclination would be to have all those discussions in the sustainability repository because it makes them easier to find. But I don't feel strongly about it, there are pros and cons. --- TL:DR: Everything in Forgejo spaces is transparent. Private conversations and dealings stay private and are not to be partially hinted or mentioned in Forgejo spaces. On the matter of transparency (and because there has been publicly documented misunderstanding in the recent past), I will re-iterate that it is very simple: in Forgejo space transparency means everything is documented in Forgejo space (redacted only to protect private data about individuals like names addresses etc.). There are no exceptions, nothing to negotiate: it is what it is. Simple and transparent. That said it is perfectly fine for an individual or a company to have entirely private discussions, contracts, etc. outside of Forgejo spaces. For instance a partnership between two companies that is on the topic of providing Forgejo services can be entirely private. In other words, what anyone does with Forgejo outside of Forgejo space is only bound by the license of the software. And absolutely not by the Forgejo governance or expectation of transparency. That has consequences that may not be immediately intuitive: it is not possible to become transparent after the fact. A concrete example is if A is paid by B to develop a new feature, all in private. What is in line with Forgejo expectation for transparency is for the feature to be sent as a pull request with zero references to the private circumstances that led to its creation. What is not not transparent is if the pull request is advertised to be (for instance) "sponsored by B" because there really is no way to know anything more. It happened in private, it stays private.

jerger commented 2025年08月21日 08:52:51 +02:00

@earl-warren wrote in #381 (comment):

Meeting Minutes will occure here:
https://codeberg.org/forgejo-contrib/federation/src/branch/main/meeting-minutes

For the sake of transparency, can you please archive them in Forgejo spaces? https://codeberg.org/forgejo/sustainability/ is a good fit.

All the federation meeting minutes? Would be fine to me.
If not, then I need a good definition to decide where minutes should stored.

Transparency is achieved on both locations I assume.

TL:DR: Everything in Forgejo spaces is transparent. Private conversations and dealings stay private and are not to be partially hinted or mentioned in Forgejo spaces.

The only open questions on transparency is discussed here: #376
I wait for comments on my question.

Pls. do not spread this discussion to different places.

Beside of this, feel invited to join our meeting :-)

@earl-warren wrote in https://codeberg.org/forgejo/discussions/issues/381#issuecomment-6612982: > > Meeting Minutes will occure here: > > https://codeberg.org/forgejo-contrib/federation/src/branch/main/meeting-minutes > > For the sake of transparency, can you please archive them in Forgejo spaces? https://codeberg.org/forgejo/sustainability/ is a good fit. All the federation meeting minutes? Would be fine to me. If not, then I need a good definition to decide where minutes should stored. Transparency is achieved on both locations I assume. > TL:DR: Everything in Forgejo spaces is transparent. Private conversations and dealings stay private and are not to be partially hinted or mentioned in Forgejo spaces. The only open questions on transparency is discussed here: https://codeberg.org/forgejo/discussions/issues/376 I wait for comments on my question. Pls. do not spread this discussion to different places. Beside of this, feel invited to join our meeting :-)

earl-warren commented 2025年08月21日 09:34:23 +02:00

You started this discussion with Sovereign Tech Agency in the most transparent way possible, it is a great example. 👍 I should have started with that before making suggestions.

@jerger wrote in #381 (comment):

All the federation meeting minutes? Would be fine to me.

I meant each and every discussion and discussions with Sovereign Tech Agency, because they are related to funding an sustainability. As an observer I would appreciate if they are easily found in one place. And that place should be, IMHO, https://codeberg.org/forgejo/sustainability/.

You started this discussion with Sovereign Tech Agency in the most transparent way possible, it is a great example. 👍 I should have started with that before making suggestions. @jerger wrote in https://codeberg.org/forgejo/discussions/issues/381#issuecomment-6633877: > All the federation meeting minutes? Would be fine to me. I meant each and every discussion and discussions with Sovereign Tech Agency, because they are related to funding an sustainability. As an observer I would appreciate if they are easily found in one place. And that place should be, IMHO, https://codeberg.org/forgejo/sustainability/.