Validating Our Solution: An MVP for Connecting Open Source Projects with Contributors #177

GKuhn commented 2024年06月17日 22:03:11 +02:00

Hello everyone, I'm Gabriel Werner Kuhn, an undergraduate student at UNISC - Brazil. Together with Zareck, I am developing a solution for the lack of collaborators in DAOs. In this sense, we would like to share the progress of our project, focusing on the MVP, with the aim of receiving your valuable evaluation. Our proposal is to create a website so that open-source projects can register and have a dedicated space to present themselves. Our focus is on two target audiences: investors and employees. Collaborators can access the website and start contributing to projects. While investors can make donations in exchange for benefits. However, we are facing difficulties in attracting investors. Therefore, in addition to asking you to validate our idea, we would like you to help us by answering two questions:

1. What kind of benefits could investors receive by being engaged with an OSS project?
2. How could a website like this significantly influence the increase and retention of contributors to an OSS project?

We are open to suggestions. Thanks in advance for your collaboration and feedback! Then, you can access our MVP link: MVP website.

NOTE: the site was written in Portuguese, use the browser's translation for better understanding if possible.

Hello everyone, I'm Gabriel Werner Kuhn, an undergraduate student at UNISC - Brazil. Together with Zareck, I am developing a solution for the lack of collaborators in DAOs. In this sense, we would like to share the progress of our project, focusing on the MVP, with the aim of receiving your valuable evaluation. Our proposal is to create a website so that open-source projects can register and have a dedicated space to present themselves. Our focus is on two target audiences: investors and employees. Collaborators can access the website and start contributing to projects. While investors can make donations in exchange for benefits. However, we are facing difficulties in attracting investors. Therefore, in addition to asking you to validate our idea, we would like you to help us by answering two questions: 1) What kind of benefits could investors receive by being engaged with an OSS project? 2) How could a website like this significantly influence the increase and retention of contributors to an OSS project? We are open to suggestions. Thanks in advance for your collaboration and feedback! Then, you can access our MVP link: [MVP website](https://sites.google.com/view/findaomvp/forgejo?authuser=0). _NOTE: the site was written in Portuguese, use the browser's translation for better understanding if possible._

n0toose commented 2024年06月17日 23:03:49 +02:00

Our proposal is to create a website so that open-source projects can register and have a dedicated space to present themselves.

Before this thread explodes, I'll just get right to the chase: You're talking about a project - I don't really understand it, as we did not register. You are mentioning investors - as in, a business venture of your own (that might encourage people to throw in capital at non-profit, presumably without the expectation of a direct return) and you are asking us to answer one or two questions that will help the presentation of your business and attract capital for your business. DAOs are also somewhat associated with the cryptocurrency trend thing.

I do not understand where we come in, or why we are listed on there and have a project page, as we did not register - we already present ourselves on https://forgejo.org. I do not understand why our project is listed on there, and I do not understand why we have to validate (as in, "endorse") your business idea if the idea is not 100% clear to me and and other members. So, personally, I can't answer any of those questions with anything else other than "I don't know", as we're not the ones doing it.

Now, I'm willing to keep my mind open - you might have a cool way of getting investors to finance open-source projects or to finance developers that could work on open-source projects. You pitch your ideas to investors - it's up to you to explain to a cautious community full of volunteers as to why they have to bother while thinking that this is worth it, and you have to defuse concerns such as "is our project being co-opted for a for-profit operation" - otherwise you're going to be met with hostility and your questions are not going to be answered at the end of the day.

It feels like you are, for some reason, trying to get us to get involved with your project that we don't know, but we are still somehow implicated to begin with (is your intention providing free marketing?), while saying things like "Potential de impacto: 4.5B pessoas" right under our logo.

You have my curiosity, but we have enough to do. Please explain.

> Our proposal is to create a website so that open-source projects can register and have a dedicated space to present themselves. Before this thread explodes, I'll just get right to the chase: You're talking about a project - I don't really understand it, as we did not register. You are mentioning investors - as in, a business venture of your own (that might encourage people to throw in capital at non-profit, presumably without the expectation of a direct return) and you are asking us to answer one or two questions that will help the presentation of your business and attract capital for your business. DAOs are also somewhat associated with the cryptocurrency trend thing. I do not understand where we come in, or why we are listed on there and have a project page, as we did not register - we already present ourselves on https://forgejo.org. I do not understand why our project is listed on there, and I do not understand why we have to *validate* (as in, "endorse") your business idea if the idea is not 100% clear to me and and other members. So, personally, I can't answer any of those questions with anything else other than "I don't know", as we're not the ones doing it. Now, I'm willing to keep my mind open - you might have a cool way of getting investors to finance open-source projects or to finance developers that could work on open-source projects. You pitch your ideas to investors - *it's up to you* to explain to a cautious community full of volunteers as to why they have to bother while thinking that this is worth it, and you have to defuse concerns such as "is our project being co-opted for a for-profit operation" - otherwise you're going to be met with hostility and your questions are not going to be answered at the end of the day. It feels like you are, for some reason, trying to get us to get involved with your project that we don't know, but we are still somehow implicated to begin with (is your intention providing free marketing?), while saying things like `"Potential de impacto: 4.5B pessoas"` right under our logo. You have my curiosity, but we have enough to do. **Please** explain.

n0toose commented 2024年06月17日 23:05:33 +02:00

Like, I'm very sorry for being unpleasant and suspicious here, and if you're trying to raise funds - thanks for your consideration and for participating in our forgejo/discussions channel - but you have to understand that this is raising a bunch of red flags for me, and it's up to you to defuse them - not have me or anybody else here decipher this or use machine translation tools in an effort to understand you.

Like, I'm very sorry for being unpleasant and suspicious here, and if you're trying to raise funds - thanks for your consideration and for participating in our `forgejo/discussions` channel - but you have to understand that this is raising a bunch of red flags for me, and it's up to you to defuse them - not have me or anybody else here decipher this or use machine translation tools in an effort to understand you.

earl-warren commented 2024年06月18日 00:38:56 +02:00

@GKuhn @zareck I love your enthusiasm and the energy you put in this project. It looks like you spent a lot of time working on it. What you may not realize is that it is the first time I read about it, just as @n0toose and other people participating in Forgejo. For us this is not the conclusion of a months long project, this is the first introduction to a new project.

For collaboration to exist, a dialog must happen and it often takes time. But it is also a opportunity for everyone involved in the conversation to learn about each other and eventually build trust.

I suggest you begin with participating in the daily activities of Forgejo. Not specifically to support this particular project but to get to know who is working on Forgejo. It is a good way to say hello and become part of this adventure. There are many low hanging fruit to get involved, for instance by translating at https://translate.codeberg.org/projects/forgejo/forgejo/ or updating the documentation https://codeberg.org/forgejo/docs/pulls and verifying its content is accurate.

While doing this I believe a lot of your questions will be answered, one way or another.

What do you think?

@GKuhn @zareck I love your enthusiasm and the energy you put in this project. It looks like you spent a lot of time working on it. What you may not realize is that it is the first time I read about it, just as @n0toose and other people participating in Forgejo. For us this is not the conclusion of a months long project, this is the first introduction to a new project. For collaboration to exist, a dialog must happen and it often takes time. But it is also a opportunity for everyone involved in the conversation to learn about each other and eventually build trust. I suggest you begin with participating in the daily activities of Forgejo. Not specifically to support this particular project but to get to know who is working on Forgejo. It is a good way to say hello and become part of this adventure. There are many low hanging fruit to get involved, for instance by translating at https://translate.codeberg.org/projects/forgejo/forgejo/ or updating the documentation https://codeberg.org/forgejo/docs/pulls and verifying its content is accurate. While doing this I believe a lot of your questions will be answered, one way or another. What do you think?

GKuhn commented 2024年06月20日 01:30:59 +02:00

I would like to express my sincere apologies for the lack of clarity in the previous message. I recently got in touch to validate an idea we are developing, but I didn't mention an important point: this project is part of an academic work. What we are developing aims to understand weaknesses in companies or OSS communities and propose, even if minimally, a solution to the reality experienced. To do this, we created a Fake Product, to test the viability of the solution and potential application.

In our thread #129 - CS University project: specific problem Forgejo/codeberg or related ecosystem is currently facing - forgejo/discussions - Codeberg.org we explain the subject and select a recurring theme: lack of contributors. We do not want to use Forgejo's image, our intention is to improve engagement via a valid solution. We are students at UNISC and we are developing a subject activity that consists of creating a website to centralize donation collections for Open-source and DAOs.

The idea is to provide a platform that facilitates fundraising for these organizations, promoting transparency and efficiency in the donation process. Furthermore, our idea also has a second target audience: developers looking to participate. To do this, they would have access, in a centralized location, to a portfolio of projects to contribute to.
We understand the importance of clearly communicating the context of our request and regret not providing this information earlier. We are very interested in obtaining feedback and validation from projects and initiatives already working in this area, so that we can improve our work and ensure that it meets the real needs of the sector.

Furthermore, the information on the website, MVP, is illustrative and does not represent a real value. However, it is also worth noting that we can remove the mention of Forgejo on our website if you wish. And, we translated the website into English. that provides better access for you.

I would like to express my sincere apologies for the lack of clarity in the previous message. I recently got in touch to validate an idea we are developing, but I didn't mention an important point: this project is part of an academic work. What we are developing aims to understand weaknesses in companies or OSS communities and propose, even if minimally, a solution to the reality experienced. To do this, we created a Fake Product, to test the viability of the solution and potential application. In our thread #129 - CS University project: specific problem Forgejo/codeberg or related ecosystem is currently facing - forgejo/discussions - Codeberg.org we explain the subject and select a recurring theme: lack of contributors. We do not want to use Forgejo's image, our intention is to improve engagement via a valid solution. We are students at UNISC and we are developing a subject activity that consists of creating a website to centralize donation collections for Open-source and DAOs. The idea is to provide a platform that facilitates fundraising for these organizations, promoting transparency and efficiency in the donation process. Furthermore, our idea also has a second target audience: developers looking to participate. To do this, they would have access, in a centralized location, to a portfolio of projects to contribute to. We understand the importance of clearly communicating the context of our request and regret not providing this information earlier. We are very interested in obtaining feedback and validation from projects and initiatives already working in this area, so that we can improve our work and ensure that it meets the real needs of the sector. Furthermore, the information on the website, [MVP](https://sites.google.com/view/findaomvp?usp=sharing), is illustrative and does not represent a real value. However, it is also worth noting that we can remove the mention of Forgejo on our website if you wish. And, we translated the website into English. that provides better access for you.

jthvai commented 2024年06月20日 05:16:57 +02:00

First, a disclaimer: I don't speak for Forgejo as an organisation, if there even is such an entity.

---

To quote the footer of your website:

Attention! This site represents a fictitious organization for study purposes.

It is quite unethical - at best - then for you to be using the branding and reputation of a real organisation to demo your product. This kind of prominent implied partnership needs to be either affirmatively elected by Forgejo (through its internal processes) or paired with a loud disclaimer that the operator of the site is in no way associated with or representing Forgejo. This applies whether or not your product is fake, as visitors of your site may perceive the partnership as current and real. This is many times more important if your product is handling financial assets.

I don't consider this a personal failing on your part, as I am (sometimes painfully) aware that this is not something CS degrees tend to touch on.

Please consider making up fake projects with fake logos to feature as part of your demo.

First, a disclaimer: I don't speak for Forgejo as an organisation, if there even is such an entity. *** To quote the footer of your website: > Attention! This site represents a fictitious organization for study purposes. It is quite unethical - at best - then for you to be using the branding and reputation of a _real_ organisation to demo your product. This kind of prominent implied partnership needs to be either _affirmatively_ elected by Forgejo (through its internal processes) or paired with a _loud_ disclaimer that the operator of the site is in no way associated with or representing Forgejo. This applies whether or not your product is fake, as _visitors of your site may perceive the partnership as current and real_. This is many times more important if your product is handling financial assets. I don't consider this a personal failing on your part, as I am (sometimes painfully) aware that this is not something CS degrees tend to touch on. Please consider making up fake projects with fake logos to feature as part of your demo.

earl-warren commented 2024年06月20日 07:34:32 +02:00

I would like to express my sincere apologies for the lack of clarity in the previous message. I recently got in touch to validate an idea we are developing, but I didn't mention an important point: this project is part of an academic work.

It looks like the fake product/startup was good enough to pass as a real one and receive the kind of feedback such an approach would get in the real world. In that sense I think you can count that as a success: the pushback you got was real and it will be good material for the report on this experiment 👍

It is good of you to apologize for not making clear from the start that it is not a real startup, that changes the tone of the conversation for the best 🙏

To put this to rest I suggest you reflect the nature of the project (student experiment for evaluation purposes only) on the website. @jthvai makes a good point about this fake being a little too real.

> I would like to express my sincere apologies for the lack of clarity in the previous message. I recently got in touch to validate an idea we are developing, but I didn't mention an important point: this project is part of an academic work. It looks like the fake product/startup was good enough to pass as a real one and receive the kind of feedback such an approach would get in the real world. In that sense I think you can count that as a success: the pushback you got was real and it will be good material for the report on this experiment 👍 It is good of you to apologize for not making clear from the start that it is not a real startup, that changes the tone of the conversation for the best 🙏 To put this to rest I suggest you reflect the nature of the project (student experiment for evaluation purposes only) on the website. @jthvai makes a good point about this fake being a little too real.

earl-warren commented 2024年06月20日 07:46:36 +02:00

Considering this is an experiment in addressing the endemic problem of Forgejo related to having more contributors to match the needs of the users (bug fixes & features) here is my feedback:

Collaborators can access the website and start contributing to projects. While investors can make donations in exchange for benefits.

This has been tried in various context with little success. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bountysource is a good example. It is difficult to pinpoint exactly why this approach did not work but there were red flags from the start:

• It competes with https://www.freelancer.com/ https://www.upwork.com/ etc. and their only unique selling point is to be focused on Free Software projects.
• The focus on Free Software project is only for marketing value of the company, it does not provide more value as an intermediary
• It does not include volunteers in the conversation

The most recent grant application Forgejo sent is good to understand why and how paid staff and volunteers need a sound dynamic to co-exist in a good way and help a Free Software project move forward. It is theoretical at this point because it has never been implemented. But it is the first description of that kind and it is worth a try to discover how and if it can work out.

https://codeberg.org/forgejo/sustainability/src/branch/main/2024-05-17-otf/application.md

Considering this is an experiment in addressing the endemic problem of Forgejo related to having more contributors to match the needs of the users (bug fixes & features) here is my feedback: > Collaborators can access the website and start contributing to projects. While investors can make donations in exchange for benefits. This has been tried in various context with little success. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bountysource is a good example. It is difficult to pinpoint exactly why this approach did not work but there were red flags from the start: * It competes with https://www.freelancer.com/ https://www.upwork.com/ etc. and their only unique selling point is to be focused on Free Software projects. * The focus on Free Software project is only for marketing value of the company, it does not provide more value as an intermediary * It does not include volunteers in the conversation The most recent grant application Forgejo sent is good to understand why and how paid staff and volunteers need a sound dynamic to co-exist in a good way and help a Free Software project move forward. It is theoretical at this point because it has never been implemented. But it is the first description of that kind and it is worth a try to discover how and if it can work out. https://codeberg.org/forgejo/sustainability/src/branch/main/2024-05-17-otf/application.md

n0toose commented 2024年06月20日 17:43:58 +02:00

It is good of you to apologize for not making clear from the start that it is not a real startup, that changes the tone of the conversation for the best 🙏

+1, and thanks for engaging with us to clear up the misunderstanding (and thanks @earl-warren for holding back a bit further and slightly defusing the conversation). I don't have the capacity to look into this at this very moment, but I appreciate the steps taken so far and I like the dialogue taking place here - I will circle back to this.

> It is good of you to apologize for not making clear from the start that it is not a real startup, that changes the tone of the conversation for the best 🙏 +1, and thanks for engaging with us to clear up the misunderstanding (and thanks @earl-warren for holding back a bit further and slightly defusing the conversation). I don't have the capacity to look into this at this very moment, but I appreciate the steps taken so far and I like the dialogue taking place here - I will circle back to this.

Ghost commented 2024年06月26日 19:31:55 +02:00

The MVP website is 404. Has it been replaced with https://sites.google.com/view/findaomvp/master?

The MVP website is 404. Has it been replaced with https://sites.google.com/view/findaomvp/master?

earl-warren commented 2024年06月26日 22:30:19 +02:00

It is good that the feedback was taken into account. I'll close this one @GKuhn so you can start on the right foot next time and only get good feedback 😄

It is good that the feedback was taken into account. I'll close this one @GKuhn so you can start on the right foot next time and only get good feedback 😄