[FEP-a4ed] Setting WITHDRAWN status #24

silverpill commented 2022年11月14日 21:04:14 +01:00

6. If after 120 days the authors have not requested the proposal to be finalized or there is no community consensus, an editor will set the status of the submission to WITHDRAWN.

In practice, this rule is not enforced. For example, FEP-f1d5 is almost 2 years old and it still has the DRAFT status.

In my opinion, this is not a bad thing, because 120 days is a very short time for a standard. The author of a proposal may not want to finalize it for various reasons: perhaps they want to gather more feedback or they want to see at least two interoperable implementations.

I think a better approach would be to set WITHDRAWN status in two cases:

• If FEP authors request it.
• If after N days the authors have not requested the proposal to be finalized AND they are not responding to editors' inquiries.

>6. If after 120 days the authors have not requested the proposal to be finalized or there is no community consensus, an editor will set the status of the submission to `WITHDRAWN`. In practice, this rule is not enforced. For example, FEP-f1d5 is almost 2 years old and it still has the DRAFT status. In my opinion, this is not a bad thing, because 120 days is a very short time for a standard. The author of a proposal may not want to finalize it for various reasons: perhaps they want to gather more feedback or they want to see at least two interoperable implementations. I think a better approach would be to set WITHDRAWN status in two cases: - If FEP authors request it. - If after N days the authors have not requested the proposal to be finalized AND they are not responding to editors' inquiries.

weex commented 2022年11月16日 18:17:11 +01:00

The If after N days case applies here for the FEP you mention, so I created #26

I agree with your proposed cases with one addition, which is to define the time for non-response as 30 days.

The `If after N days` case applies here for the FEP you mention, so I created https://codeberg.org/fediverse/fep/pulls/26 I agree with your proposed cases with one addition, which is to define the time for non-response as 30 days.

silverpill commented 2022年11月16日 23:53:17 +01:00

Good, let's see how this works in practice. I think this FEP is useful, so I'll try to resubmit it if it gets withdrawn:

9. A proposal with status WITHDRAWN remains in the repository and can be resubmitted.

Good, let's see how this works in practice. I think this FEP is useful, so I'll try to resubmit it if it gets withdrawn: >9. A proposal with status WITHDRAWN remains in the repository and can be resubmitted.

how commented 2022年11月28日 19:06:17 +01:00

Except FEP-a4ed is FINAL and has been for a long time. I think the problem is the lack of automation for status changes.

Per https://socialhub.activitypub.rocks/pub/fediverse-enhancement-proposals FEP-a4ed, FEP-400e and FEP-8fcf are all FINAL.

FEP-2100 is missing from the README.md here, and does not have an assigned issue.

Indeed, some drafts should be withdrawn.

Except FEP-a4ed is FINAL and has been for a long time. I think the problem is the lack of automation for status changes. Per https://socialhub.activitypub.rocks/pub/fediverse-enhancement-proposals FEP-a4ed, FEP-400e and FEP-8fcf are all FINAL. FEP-2100 is missing from the README.md here, and does not have an assigned issue. Indeed, some drafts should be withdrawn.

weex commented 2022年11月28日 20:14:23 +01:00

FEP-2100 is missing from the README.md here, and does not have an assigned issue.

Good catch. Added it to README and created #36

> FEP-2100 is missing from the README.md here, and does not have an assigned issue. Good catch. Added it to README and created https://codeberg.org/fediverse/fep/issues/36

weex commented 2022年11月28日 20:19:03 +01:00

@silverpill Can we close this given the clause that was added? Or does part of the problem persist?

If there are any other issues with the process in general or in specific, let's create a new separate issue for each.

@silverpill Can we close this given the clause that was added? Or does part of the problem persist? If there are any other issues with the process in general or in specific, let's create a new separate issue for each.

silverpill commented 2022年11月28日 21:06:27 +01:00

As far as I can tell, FEP-a4ed hasn't been changed in respect to WITHDRAWN status.
To be clear, I was not advocating for withdrawing old drafts. On the opposite, I think the FEP process should be changed to give community more time to discuss and implement proposals, and FEP-a4ed should describe the withdrawal process in more detail.

I can create a pull request that adds the proposed change to FEP-a4ed:

I think a better approach would be to set WITHDRAWN status in two cases:

• If FEP authors request it.
• If after N days the authors have not requested the proposal to be finalized AND they are not responding to editors' inquiries.

But also, what does it mean for a proposal to be WITHDRAWN? Does it mean that people shouldn't use it as a reference? Who can re-submit proposals? If anyone can do that, should they change the authors metadata field?

In particular, I'd like to restore FEP-f1d5 and maybe even finalize it (because it is adopted by almost all Fediverse platforms). What should I do?

As far as I can tell, FEP-a4ed hasn't been changed in respect to WITHDRAWN status. To be clear, I was not advocating for withdrawing old drafts. On the opposite, I think the FEP process should be changed to give community more time to discuss and implement proposals, and FEP-a4ed should describe the withdrawal process in more detail. I can create a pull request that adds the proposed change to FEP-a4ed: >I think a better approach would be to set WITHDRAWN status in two cases: >- If FEP authors request it. >- If after N days the authors have not requested the proposal to be finalized AND they are not responding to editors' inquiries. But also, what does it mean for a proposal to be WITHDRAWN? Does it mean that people shouldn't use it as a reference? Who can re-submit proposals? If anyone can do that, should they change the `authors` metadata field? In particular, I'd like to restore FEP-f1d5 and maybe even finalize it (because it is adopted by almost all Fediverse platforms). What should I do?

weex commented 2022年11月28日 22:09:51 +01:00

Agree on creating a pull request.

As for what WITHDRAWN means I see it as a sign that the FEP draft didn't lead to a final form with any kind of consensus. Maybe it gets dropped in favor of one or more other proposals.

I think it's worthwhile to create an issue for everyone to discuss what WITHDRAWN means so we may then codify that into ae4d or a supporting document.

You bring up another question (and I think it's good to fan out each to their own issues to discuss and to link and summarize previous discussion) of how FEPs FINAL or otherwise are understood to fit into a wider purpose. I wasn't around when ae4d was first created and think it'd be helpful for myself and all who come later to have more documentation on this whole thing.

As for FEP-f1d5, I think it's reasonable to resubmit adding yourself as an author.

Agree on creating a pull request. As for what WITHDRAWN means I see it as a sign that the FEP draft didn't lead to a final form with any kind of consensus. Maybe it gets dropped in favor of one or more other proposals. I think it's worthwhile to create an issue for everyone to discuss what WITHDRAWN means so we may then codify that into ae4d or a supporting document. You bring up another question (and I think it's good to fan out each to their own issues to discuss and to link and summarize previous discussion) of how FEPs FINAL or otherwise are understood to fit into a wider purpose. I wasn't around when ae4d was first created and think it'd be helpful for myself and all who come later to have more documentation on this whole thing. As for FEP-f1d5, I think it's reasonable to resubmit adding yourself as an author.

how commented 2022年11月29日 12:28:53 +01:00

create an issue for everyone to discuss what WITHDRAWN means

It would be better to keep discussions on the SocialHub, and code/proposals here.

> create an issue for everyone to discuss what WITHDRAWN means It would be better to keep discussions on the SocialHub, and code/proposals here.

weex commented 2022年11月29日 18:25:46 +01:00

create an issue for everyone to discuss what WITHDRAWN means

It would be better to keep discussions on the SocialHub, and code/proposals here.

OT for this thread, but feel free to create an issue or SocialHub thread. Either works for me as long as these discussions are permanently archived.

> > create an issue for everyone to discuss what WITHDRAWN means > > It would be better to keep discussions on the SocialHub, and code/proposals here. OT for this thread, but feel free to create an issue or SocialHub thread. Either works for me as long as these discussions are permanently archived.