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Created on 2009年02月27日 19:45 by terry.reedy, last changed 2022年04月11日 14:56 by admin.
| Files | ||||
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| File name | Uploaded | Description | Edit | |
| Py31doc.jpg | terry.reedy, 2009年06月29日 16:56 | Scrollbar in grammar box | ||
| py31doc.png | ezio.melotti, 2009年06月30日 23:21 | No scrollbars in grammar box | ||
| py31doc-vista.png | ezio.melotti, 2009年07月01日 05:20 | Scrollbar on Vista | ||
| py31doc-win2k3.png | ezio.melotti, 2009年07月01日 05:57 | Scrollbar on Win2k3 Server | ||
| py31doc-winxpsp2.png | ezio.melotti, 2009年07月01日 05:59 | No scrollbars on WinXP SP2 | ||
| Messages (10) | |||
|---|---|---|---|
| msg82863 - (view) | Author: Terry J. Reedy (terry.reedy) * (Python committer) | Date: 2009年02月27日 19:45 | |
Example: LangRef / LexAnalysis / Identifiers Green-shaded grammar section has 3 lines, 2 very long: identifier ::= id_start id_continue* id_start ::= <all characters in general categories Lu, ... id_continue ::= <all characters in id_start, plus character ... so both online html and winhelp versions have a horizontal scroll bar underneath. The 3.0.1 Windows Help version only displays 2 lines and adds a mini vertical scroll bar at the far right to see the third. If possible, it would be better if it simply displayed 3 lines like the html version. Experimentation indicates the following for all the green boxes: if the type size is increased or the window narrowed so that a horizontal scroll bar is needed, html (at least as rendered by FireFox) adds it *underneath* the green box, while Winhelp adds it *in* the green box, taking up one line and thus hiding the last line of text, thus requiring a vertical scroll to see that line, which then hides the top line (ugh). Assuming that there is no configuration option or formatting directive that can be put in the file to tell winhelp to act differently, a partial fix would be to add an extra blank line, if possible, to every green box on conversion to the winhelp version so that all lines would be visible even when an (now irrelevant) vscroll appears. |
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| msg89780 - (view) | Author: Ezio Melotti (ezio.melotti) * (Python committer) | Date: 2009年06月28日 19:16 | |
It's probably better to split long lines (at 80 chars?) than adding an empty line in every box. Scrolling horizontally is annoying enough even without the problem you mentioned. I don't know if it's possible to split grammar lines like id_start/id_continue[1], but in this specific case is probably better to keep the definitions short and explain it further in the following paragraph. I don't have any idea about how Windows Help works, but if it uses something like CSS, some extra padding at bottom could solve the problem without having to add an empty line. [1]: http://docs.python.org/3.1/reference/lexical_analysis.html#identifiers |
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| msg89784 - (view) | Author: Terry J. Reedy (terry.reedy) * (Python committer) | Date: 2009年06月28日 20:58 | |
The lines in the green box do not have to be long in an absolute sense, just longer than the current window width allows. As soon as the the window is narrow enough to require a horizontal scroll bar, a vertical scroll bar is added too because the horizonal scroll bar is added into the box on top of where the bottom margin and part of the last line was. I just discovered that if the vertical scroll bar is exactly centered, everything is visible because the horizontal bar is a bit under twice the width of the top and bottom margins. If only it started there... |
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| msg89788 - (view) | Author: Ezio Melotti (ezio.melotti) * (Python committer) | Date: 2009年06月28日 21:20 | |
That's why I think that the Windows Help problem still need to be fixed, but limiting the length of the lines is a good idea regardless of this, since having long lines and horizontal scroll bars is annoying on the browser too. Is the Windows Help python31.chm? I installed Python 3.1 on Windows XP and tried to open that section. Here the width of the page depends on the longest line, so the whole page is large enough to contain both id_start and id_continue (however, even if this long lines go over the right limit of the page, all the other lines fit in the visible part of the page). There are no scrollbars inside the green box, just "global" scrollbars for the page |
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| msg89867 - (view) | Author: Terry J. Reedy (terry.reedy) * (Python committer) | Date: 2009年06月29日 16:56 | |
WinXP, updated, Py3.1. Start / Programs / Python3.1 / Python Docs I presume this uses .chm file. I most definitely have scrollbars covering text in green box. See screenshot for what I see. |
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| msg89956 - (view) | Author: Ezio Melotti (ezio.melotti) * (Python committer) | Date: 2009年06月30日 23:21 | |
This is what I see here (see attached image). The only scrollbar is the one at the bottom for the whole page. The file is under Start -> Programs -> Python 3.1 -> Python Manuals, and the path/file is C:\Programs\Python31\Doc\python31.chm (you can see it right-clicking on it from start menu and selecting properties). I'm using WinXP SP2, the versions of the HTML Help Components are: HHCTRL.OCX 5.02.3790.2453 ITSS.DLL 5.02.3790.2453 ITIRCL.DLL 5.02.3790.2453 HHA.DLL 4.74.8702.0 Compiled with HHA Version 4.74.8702 You can find this information right-clicking on WinHelp in the application bar (or on the small icon on the left of the title bar) and then on "Version...". Maybe you are running an older (or newer) version of WinHelp. Tomorrow I'll check with some other Windows. |
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| msg89961 - (view) | Author: Terry J. Reedy (terry.reedy) * (Python committer) | Date: 2009年07月01日 00:58 | |
Same path to python31.chm. I presume color difference is due to difference selections in Display Properties / Appearance tab. When I left- or right-click on upper-left icon as depicted in screen capture, choices are move, resize, ...., close, About HTML Help. No Versions. Result of selecting last is popup window About Microsoft HTML Help. Html Help Control Version 5.2.3790.4110 Copyright blah blah Ditto for right-click on entry in task bar as bottom of screen. Other programs use the same control. We are obviously running different 'help' programs. WinHelp versus HTML Help? I wonder if it has anything to do with vendor customization. My XP Home is from HP. However, wife's machine from Dell with XP Pro uses the same version of same control for help with various programs also. My machine does have winhelp.exe (with pure ? icon instead of ? and page) and winhelp32.exe (with ? on book cover icon), but they are not listed in programs / accessories. Latter does not recognize python31.chm as a help file. The former looks for .hlp files. |
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| msg89963 - (view) | Author: Ezio Melotti (ezio.melotti) * (Python committer) | Date: 2009年07月01日 05:57 | |
I uploaded a few more screenshots. I was able to reproduce the issue on Vista with HTML Help Version 6.0 and on Windows 2003 Server whit HTML Help Control Version 5.2.3790.3959. I also tried on another Windows XP SP2 machine with HTML Help Control Version 5.2.3790.1194 but the scrollbar wasn't there, so I guess they changed something between .1194 and .3959 The version I'm running at home is probably even older (4.74?) and the problem seems to affect only the newer versions. |
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| msg199491 - (view) | Author: Georg Brandl (georg.brandl) * (Python committer) | Date: 2013年10月11日 17:11 | |
Is this still an issue? |
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| msg199498 - (view) | Author: Terry J. Reedy (terry.reedy) * (Python committer) | Date: 2013年10月11日 18:59 | |
Yes. On win 7, html help control 6.1, the horizontal scroll bar is still put in or on top of the box, but it is thinner so it only cuts off half of the bottom line instead of hiding it completely. There is no longer a vertical scroll bar, which means one can only expose the rest of the bottom line by maximizing the window and shrinking the type size. This is no an issue for me now because I recently got a 27' monitor with 2560x1440 resolution, so with full screen and still readable type, I can see even the long lines discussed here without a scrollbar. But this will not be true for most. On a small enough screen, I might need a magnifier. I checked and Internet Explorer works like FireFox, adding the scrollbar beneath the box (or expanding the box to accommodate it). I just confirmed that the start menu shortcut does the same as double clicking python34/Doc/python34a3.chm. Same behavior. The icon is question mark partly over page. |
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| History | |||
|---|---|---|---|
| Date | User | Action | Args |
| 2022年04月11日 14:56:46 | admin | set | github: 49638 |
| 2013年10月11日 18:59:58 | terry.reedy | set | versions: + Python 3.3, Python 3.4, - Python 3.1, Python 3.2 |
| 2013年10月11日 18:59:48 | terry.reedy | set | messages: + msg199498 |
| 2013年10月11日 17:11:37 | georg.brandl | set | messages: + msg199491 |
| 2010年10月29日 10:07:21 | admin | set | assignee: georg.brandl -> docs@python |
| 2009年07月01日 05:59:39 | ezio.melotti | set | files: - py31doc-vista.png |
| 2009年07月01日 05:59:28 | ezio.melotti | set | files: + py31doc-winxpsp2.png |
| 2009年07月01日 05:57:33 | ezio.melotti | set | files:
+ py31doc-win2k3.png messages: + msg89963 |
| 2009年07月01日 05:41:53 | ezio.melotti | set | files: + py31doc-vista.png |
| 2009年07月01日 05:20:38 | ezio.melotti | set | files: + py31doc-vista.png |
| 2009年07月01日 00:58:56 | terry.reedy | set | messages: + msg89961 |
| 2009年06月30日 23:21:10 | ezio.melotti | set | files:
+ py31doc.png messages: + msg89956 |
| 2009年06月29日 16:56:57 | terry.reedy | set | files:
+ Py31doc.jpg messages: + msg89867 |
| 2009年06月28日 21:20:21 | ezio.melotti | set | messages: + msg89788 |
| 2009年06月28日 20:58:17 | terry.reedy | set | messages:
+ msg89784 versions: + Python 3.2, - Python 3.0 |
| 2009年06月28日 19:16:18 | ezio.melotti | set | priority: low nosy: + ezio.melotti messages: + msg89780 |
| 2009年02月27日 19:45:52 | terry.reedy | create | |