Andrew Josey called the ninth meeting (a.k.a. Austin/M10, since this counting includes a
teleconference) of the Austin Group to order at 9:03 am
Tuesday January 11th at The Open Group's office in Reading, Berkshire.
- Coffee and Cakes
-
Administrivia
-
Introductions
Stephe Walli and Mats Wichmann were welcomed.
-
Approval of Agenda
The agenda was approved as published, with the addition of
a discussion on Memory Synchronization (New Business).
-
Approval of Minutes
Minutes of the last teleconference
(
Austin/232, December 16 2004) were reviewed.
Approved with no objections.
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Review of Action Items
ACTION AI-2005年01月01日: Don Cragun to present paper on pathname resolution. OPEN.
ACTION AI-2005年01月02日: Larry Dwyer to present proposal on system() and threads. OPEN.
ACTION AI-2005年01月03日: Joerg Schilling to address issues in XCU ERN 1 (pax) OPEN.
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Review of Consent List
SD2 updated. Added 37, reversing Item 7 (option _POSIX_PII) since although we agreed at one point in time that this
option should be present, it has not been implemented (networking
subsequently became part of the mandatory base functionality),
and is now overcome by events.
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Review of Issues List
SD1 - no updates.
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Procedures Update
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JPC Procedures
No updates to report.
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Committee Draft development procedures.
See item 5 below.
No updates.
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Identification of Organizational Reps
see attendance list above.
WG 15 has been disbanded, but the representation from ISO/IEC continues, direct from SC 22,
with Nick Stoughton as the Organizational Representative (Keld Simonsen is the alternate).
Currently, the representative is the "interim" rep, until a recommendation is received from
the newly formed POSIX Advisory Group for a permanent rep. The PAG met yesterday, and
recommended that the two interim reps be made permanent. This recommendation has yet
to be acted on by SC 22.
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Status Reports
-
Austin Group Status - presentation by Andrew Josey (Austin/234).
Balloting Status: The Open Group, IEEE, ISO
TC 1 and TC 2 have both been approved and published by all three organizations.
Spiral bound copy of 2004 edition available: 7 volumes ... approximately 9 inches of
shelf space required!
Document on-line in HTML, and Guide Book
with PDF on CD-ROM.
ISO have chosen not to publish the 2004 edition as a separate edition. Therefore, printed
copies of the 2004 edition only carry the two logos. However, ISO have approved TC2, just chosen
to publish it as a standalone edit set (i.e. not an integrated document). ISO call the second
technical corrigenda TC1!
Approval dates for TC2:
- The Open Group December 2003
- IEEE February 2004
- ISO September 2004
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Committee Draft development procedures.
Geoff Clare asked how to handle an enhancement request to add a new option
to a utility. A well formed aardvark should suffice.
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Organizational Reps Status - No issues.
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POSIX Status
The System Services Realtime group (chaired by Joe Gwinn)
met July 2004. POSIX.13 and POSIX.26 (device control) are approved
(at the December 2003 IEEE Standards Board meeting).
IEEE published these in 2004. New work items are being discussed,
but things have been fairly quiet for the last six months. The device control
specification could be considered by the AG for future inclusion in a revision
of the core should the PASC OR submit it and the other recommended
items from Austin/112r1 be met.
The system services realtime working group is the only active group
remaining within PASC, and the POSIX.13 profile amendments are the
only documents still
under development outside the AG.
Most recent status report is in the presentation at Austin/235.
ACTION AI-2005年01月04日: AJ to prepare a slide showing the timeline of the POSIX
standards based on one within Austin/235
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IEEE/The Open Group Status
The Open Group approved the standard September 12th 2001.
The IEEE approved the standard December 6th 2001. Subsequently
they have worked together to establish a certification program
for POSIX (see Austin/237).
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C99 Status, C99 TC2
Nick reported that WG 14 is working on TRs for "Security" (see below),
Embedded C, new character data types. TC 2 was published in November 2004,
and we should align with it.
ACTION AI-2005年01月05日: AJ to prepare draft document on impact of C99 TC2 on POSIX.
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Networking Status (XTI/Sockets)
IETF draft RFC draft-itojun-ipv6-getnameinfo-multiproto-02.txt was submitted
to the futures mail list for our consideration.
Andrew Gollan has left Sun, and is no longer the liaison for networking issues.
ACTION AI-2005年01月06日: AJ to contact Jack McCann at HP for views on the getnameinfo extensions document, and for any other networking issues that may concern us.
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Joint Procedures Committee Status
Nothing new.
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Old business
Utility Syntax Guidelines
Long running discussion on e-mail list on this subject.
A number of utilities that had "obsolescent" alternative
syntaxes had those alternates removed during the revision.
This is summarized in austin-group-l message 7269.
ACTION AI-2005年01月07日: AJ to update AI-027 notes to the Editor and recirculate.
Going through this list utility by utility:
- set if the first argument is '-', the results are unspecified.
- awk skip...this is different.
- ed append to the first para in "Options" the following: "except
the unspecified usage of '-'."
Add to DESCRIPTION
"If an operand is '-' the results are unspecified."
Delete the last sentence in the section on file under OPERANDS.
- env append to the first para in "Options" the following:
"except for the unspecified usage of '-'."
Add to DESCRIPTION
"If the first argument is '-' the results are unspecified."
- find no change needed.
- grep no change needed.
- head add to rationale "Earlier versions of this standard
allowed a -number option.
This form is no longer specified by this
standard but may be present in some implementations."
- join add to the Rationale "Earlier versions of this standard
allowed -j, -j1, and -j2 options, and a
form of the -o option that allowed the list option argument
to be multiple arguments.
These forms are no longer specified by this
standard but may be present in some implementations."
- kill no change required.
- sort some implementations allow the operands and options
to be intermixed, in violation of the utility syntax guidelines.
Add to OPTIONS section on conformance to USG "except Guideline 9".
Add to the RATIONALE, "Earlier versions of this standard allow the -o
option to appear after operands. Historical practice allowed all options to
interspersed with operands. This version of the standard allows implementations to
accept options after operands, but conforming applications should not use this form.
Earlier versions of the standard also
allowed -n and +m. These options are no longer specified by this standard,
but may be present in some implementations."
Also add to OPTIONS "In addition, '+' may be recognized as an
option delimiter as well as '-'."
- tail
Add to the Rationale:
"Earlier versions of this standard supported the following forms in the Synopsis section:
tail -[number][b|c|l][f] [file]
tail +[number][b|c|l][f] [file]
These forms are no longer specified by this standard, but may be present
in some implementations."
Also add to the OPTIONS "except that '+' may be recognized as an option delimiter
as well as '-'."
- touch see XCU ERN 45 (already accepted aardvark).
- tty no change required.
- uniq in the OPTIONS section add "except that '+' may be recognized as an option
delimiter as well as '-'."
Add to Rationale "Earlier versions of the standard
allowed -n and +m. These options are no longer specified by this standard,
but may be present in some implementations."
- ex add to Description "If an operand is '-', the results are unspecified."
Add to OPTION "except for the unspecified usage of '-', and that '+'
may be recognized as an option delimiter as well as '-'."
Add to Rationale "The +command option is no longer specified by this standard
but may be present in some implementations."
- expand add to the Rationale "Earlier versions of this standard
allowed the following form in the Synopsis section:
expand [-tabstop] [-tab1,tab2,...,tabn] [file ...]
This form is no longer specified by this standard
but may be present in some implementations."
- more
Add in the OPTIONS section to the end of the 1st para at the end of 24927
"except that '+' may be recognized as an option delimiter
as well as '-'."
In the RATIONALE section on page 653 add to the end of
line 25536
(line starting "The -p (position)...")
"The +command option is no longer specified by this standard but
may be present in some implementations."
- newgrp
Add a new paragraph after 25589
"If the first argument is '-', the results are unspecified."
Append to end of first paragraph of OPTIONS (line 25600)
"except for the unspecified usage of '-'."
- nice
Add to the end of RATIONALE for nice as a new para :
"Earlier versions of this standard allowed a -increment option. This form
is no longer specified by this standard but may be present in some
implementations."
- renice
Change the first paragraph in OPTIONS
from
"The renice utility shall conform to the Base Definitions volume of IEEE Std
1003.1-2001, Section 12.2, Utility Syntax Guidelines."
to
"The renice utility shall conform to the Base Definitions volume of IEEE Std
1003.1-2001, Section 12.2, Utility Syntax Guidelines, except for guideline
9."
In the OPTIONS section for -g, -p -u
change from
"Interpret all operands ..."
to
"Interpret the following operands ..."
Add to RATIONALE
"Earlier versions of this standard allowed the following
forms in the SYNOPSIS section:
renice nice_value[-p] pid...[-g gid...][-p pid...][-u user...]
renice nice_value -g gid...[-g gid...][-p pid...][-u user...]
renice nice_value -u user...[-g gid...][-p pid...][-u user...]
These forms are no longer specified by this standard but may be
present in some implementations."
- split
Add new paragraph to the end of the RATIONALE for split:
"Earlier versions of this standard allowed a -line_count option. This form
is no longer specified by this standard but may be present in some
implementations."
- strings
Add a new paragraph at the end of DESCRIPTION
"If the first argument is '-', the results are unspecified."
Append to end of first paragraph of OPTIONS (line 34166)
"except for the unspecified usage of '-'."
Add to end of existing 1st paragraph in the RATIONALE for strings:
(line 34235)
"These options are no longer specified by this standard but may be present
in some implementations."
- vi
Append to end of first paragraph of OPTIONS (line 38101)
"except that '+' may be recognized as an option delimiter as well as
'-'."
- lex no change required.
Work on USG related aardvark: XBD ERN 21, 22. XRAT ERN 2, 3, 4, 5, 6. All closed.
ACTION AI-2005年01月08日: AJ update the aardvark reports.
Memory Synchronization
There were not sufficient experts in the meeting to progress this issue.
Nick Stoughton reported that
ISO JTC 1/SC 22/WG 21 (C++) are considering developing new interfaces in the C++ language
"because the POSIX model is broken". We should encourage all experts in this area
to be prepared to discuss these issues (both the aardvark and possibly the WG21
proposal) at the next conference call.
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New business
-
POSIX LSB Differences
ACTION AI-2005年01月09日: Andrew Josey & Mats Wichmann to propose a time and place
for a joint Austin group/LSB Workgroup
meeting, to be held as soon as conveniently possible.
The group worked through the draft TR on differences (see Austin/236)
and categorized the issues as follows:
- Errno differences
These include ENXIO v ENODEV, ENOTSUP v EOPNOTSUP, EIDSIR v EPERM.
Although these each have different potential resolutions, they should
all be dealt with at a joint meeting.
- Substantial Interface differences
Includes fcntl, kill and strerror_r. To be handled by a joint meeting.
Both specs could change to accommodate diffs. LSB could have a new invented
function to provide POSIX behavior, and use the right one if POSIX_C_SOURCE
or _XOPEN_SOURCE is defined.
- POSIX Interpretation
Interp request filed against POSIX, POSIX likely to change to accommodate
LSB (strptime).
- LSB Extensions
These are not conflicts, although listed as such. Includes
waitpid, ioctl, bc, ipcrm and od.
- LSB Issues
Some things just need more investigation (they may not really be conflicts):
opterr, optind, and optopt. Others need investigation to figure out what to do, but
both standards might be able to accommodate changes to support the other (at -r/-d).
Other changes are in conflict, and should be investigated by LSB for further
resolution. These include at, batch, crontab, df, chgrp, chown, cut, echo,
renice, more, newgrp, xargs, file, fuser, ipcs, ls.
- Internationalization
awk, find, grep, sed. Need LSB to address these.
Geoff Clare reported that there are additional conflicts for
the find utility that are not in the TR. He will email
details to Nick Stoughton.
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Aardvark
XBD ERN 19 - Environment Variables discussion. The principle issue is that
several implementations use an environment variable (or variables)
to indicate a conforming environment (e.g. POSIXLY_CORRECT).
This is actually prohibited by the standard as written.
Proposal from Mark Brown for changes to allow this. The first action of Mark's
proposal was dropped, but the rest accepted after lengthy debate.
This is an interp. Andrew preparing draft of interp for review.
XBD ERN 20 - withdrawn by submitter (Geoff Clare)
XBD ERN 28 - Accept
XBD ERN 36 - looks editorial. The proposed change would match the text in 1003.2-1992.
Also RE_DUP_MAX applies to EREs as well as BREs. Editor has marked the aardvark.
XBD ERN 3 - previously marked ACCEPT -- should be ACCEPT AS MARKED.
XBD ERN 4 - Previously marked ACCEPT AS MARKED, but the suggested change
was unclear. The action was clarified. (change "do the [EMFILE] change
as suggested, note that the exact changes still need enumeration." to
"Go with option 1, do the [EMFILE] change as suggested, note that the
exact changes still need enumeration."
XCU ERN 14 - seems like a worthwhile idea, but no text submitted.
Asked submitter for more details.
XCU ERN 22 & 23 - leave, pending input from Don Cragun.
XCU ERN 48 - Accept As Marked (add the text provided).
XCU ERN 49 - Accept as marked (see aardvark for details). This is an interp.
The standard is ambiguous in the first part, and the second case is a defect.
XSH ERN 12 - previously marked REJECT. Change to AAM ... see aardvark for further
info on new words. Could be a TC.
XSH ERN 29 - hold till the next teleconference.
XSH ERN 52 - discussions between Loic and Dave Butenhof still ongoing here.
XSH ERN 63 - Accept as marked ... see aardvark for detailed edits. This is an interp.
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Open Interpretations
AI 002 - fflush and fd interactions.
ACTION AI-2005年01月10日: AJ to find 1988 wording related to fflush() and fclose() here and update the proposed words, and recirc. AI002.
AI 016 - Pathname resolution, awaiting Don Cragun input.
AI 029 - popen("z"). Change "undefined" to "unspecified". Note that
passing a null pointer remains undefined behavior because the
standard says that the mode argument is a string.
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Responses to Draft TR from WG14: "Security" Library Extensions
WG 14 have submitted a draft of this TR for CD Registration, and have
asked AG for review and comment.
The document is titled "Specification for Secure C Library Functions"
but does not cover anything related to security. It provides bound checked
string functions and other interfaces intended to reduce programmer error.
The AG respectfully suggest that the title should be something more like
"Enhanced Library Interfaces", or similar.
Security can be divided into six basic requirements, or tenets, that
help ensure data confidentiality, integrity, and availability. The six
security tenets are:
- Identification. This deals with user names and how users identify themselves to the system.
-
Authentication. This deals with passwords, smart cards, biometrics,
and so on. Authentication is how users prove to the system that they
are who they claim to be.
-
Access control (also called authorization). This deals with access
and the privileges granted to users so that they may perform certain
functions on the system.
-
Confidentiality. This deals with encryption. Confidentiality mechanisms
ensure that only authorized people can see data stored on or traveling
across the network.
-
Integrity. This deals with checksums and digital signatures. Integrity
mechanisms ensure that data is not garbled, lost, or changed when
traveling across the network.
-
Non-repudiation. This is a means of providing proof of data transmission
or receipt so that the occurrence of a transaction cannot later be denied.
This TR deals only with integrity, and only a little of that.
Namespace pollution issues ... should not be implementation defined if
__STDC_WANT_SECURE_LIB is undefined. P4 para3.
The undefined case should be the same as defined as 0.
We should continue to review this document offline. Comments to austin-group-l.
Nick Stoughton will deliver the comments to the next meeting of WG14.
Mailing deadline (for WG14) is 7 March 2005. Our deadline should be one or two days
before that.
ACTION AI-2005年01月11日: All to review WG14 Security TR and report to austin-group-l by 2005年3月1日.
New APIs Strawman Doc
Need to continue to monitor developments here. Base Working Group currently own
the action here.
Some overlap with WG14 security TR.
Access Control Lists
There was a problem that ACLs vacillated between even and odd numbered drafts of
.1e/.2c, and some implementations do it one way, others the other.
There are many implementations with something in this space.
Should ACLs be restrictive or permissive? This may be a split in directions.
ACTION AI-2005年01月12日: Larry Dwyer and Nick Stoughton to further investigate ACLs and propose next steps.
POSIX Certification Status Report
Joint IEEE Open Group effort to certify POSIX implementations.
Andrew presented a status report on certification (Austin/237),
supplemented by material in
Austin/238.
Test suite covering all 1003.1 2003 mandatory interfaces (including shell).
Developing new tests for 1003.13 profiles - coming soon!
SD/5 Review
Remove XBD ERN 8 from here -- we subsequently rejected this change.
Remove XSH ERN 29 from here -- still open.
Work Plan Update
AGREED Need to start a revision by December 2006. (OR vote, add to SD/2)
Would want to have PAR approved by September 2006. Other groups (e.g. IEEE, ISO,
OGTGbase) have until then to finalize specs for consideration for inclusion in the
revision. We should have a notification of all incoming revision items by January
2006. Procedures already in place require input to be approved specs.
See Austin/112r1.
-
Consent List - Updated
-
Issues List - no updates
-
Action Item Review
-
ACTION AI-2005年01月01日: Don Cragun to present paper on pathname resolution. OPEN.
-
ACTION AI-2005年01月02日: Larry Dwyer to present proposal on system() and threads. OPEN.
-
ACTION AI-2005年01月03日: Joerg Schilling to address issues in XCU ERN 1 (pax) OPEN.
-
ACTION AI-2005年01月04日: AJ to prepare a slide showing the timeline of the POSIX
standards based on one within Austin/235
-
ACTION AI-2005年01月05日: AJ to prepare draft document on impact of C99 TC2 on POSIX.
-
ACTION AI-2005年01月06日: AJ to contact Jack McCann at HP for views on getnameinfo document, and for any
other networking issues that may concern us.
-
ACTION AI-2005年01月07日: AJ to update AI-027 notes to the Editor and recirculate.
-
ACTION AI-2005年01月08日: AJ update the aardvark reports.
-
ACTION AI-2005年01月09日 Andrew Josey & Mats Wichmann to propose a time and place
for a joint Austin group/LSB Workgroup meeting to consider LSB/POSIX conflicts,
to be held as soon as conveniently possible.
-
ACTION AI-2005年01月10日 AJ to find 1988 wording related to fflush() and fclose() here and update the proposed words, and recirculate AI002.
-
ACTION AI-2005年01月11日 All to review WG14 Security TR (N1093.pdf) and report to austin-group-l by 2005年03月01日.
-
ACTION AI-2005年01月12日 Larry Dwyer and Nick Stoughton to further investigate ACLs and propose next steps.
-
Draft & Meeting Schedule
The next teleconference is January 27 at the regular timeslot.
We do not expect the next face to face meeting until
January 2006, but will review this periodically.
-
AOB
-
All members of the Austin Group were saddened to hear of the death
of Finnbarr Murphy's son, and send heartfelt condolences to him and his
family at this time.
-
All members of the Austin Group wish to thank The Open Group for hosting
this meeting and taking care of our needs so dutifully.
The meeting adjourned at 3.16pm Thursday.
If you have comments or additions relating to the correctness of the Minutes please send them to
The Austin Group Chair.
If your comments relate to decisions regarding the disposition
of the aardvark please refer first to the Aardvark reports, and then if
you still have a comment please send it to the main reflectors so that
all can see the issue.