[Dx-qsl] Peter One

Thu Jun 1 23:24:53 EDT 2006

I have no gripe with anyone willingly donating money to help out someone 
who has decided to go on a dexpedition.
Yes, the operator usually ends up paying some of the costs .... However, 
if the operator decided to go to Disneyland for the experience, the ego 
rush or whatever, I dont think any of us would feel the need to donate 
for that reason. If so .. then I'd LOVE to go and operate from Florida 
or Cuba for a week. Anyone who wants to, please feel free to send me 
some money as I can't afford to do it all by myself....
If the operator cant afford to foot the whole bill himself ... he should 
consider whether he should go or not. If some fellow hams decide to 
help that is great .... 
My concern is, the operator shouldnt plan a dxpedition counting on the 
fact that fellow hams are going to come to his aide ... That puts it in 
the category of soliciting temporary employment. and he DEFINITELY 
should not make a donation either a conscious or unconscious requirement 
to send out a QSL card. If the operator can't afford to send out cards 
at his own expense ... then he should make it clear beforehand that 
either an SASE is required or there wont be a card sent out. Or he 
should follow the "old days" philosophy that if one is received, one is 
sent. That enables other operators to decide whether they want to 
spend the time and effort to work the station.
AND .. if you'd love to go to BS7H ... I'd love to go with you. Why 
dont we start here and now soliciting donations to pay for what we cant 
afford to? I figure I can afford about 500 dollars of my own money. 
How about you? Then others can make up the difference. What's the 
difference between that and Peter I or any other dxpedition?
Ray WA7ITZ
Steven Wheatley KU9C wrote:
>I guess I've not seen a dxpedition where folks get paid to go.....or consider it a part time job. Folks go for the experience, the ego rush, whatever. However, I'm not aware of any dxpedition where the individual operator didn't end up paying for some of the trip. In many cases, it's in the thousands, even 10s of thousands of dollars. 
>>So......if a person is going to pay 5K, lets say, out of their own pocket to activate some remote place, where a chartered vessel is required, etc., and lets say the average cost per person on the dxpedition is 20K, who pays the rest? As the team usually can't print money, its individuals, foudnations such as NCDXF, INDEXA, EUDXF, etc, and the donations received. I can tell you that the donations received for a major operation is not a trivial amount, but I can also tell you it's not paying all the bills, and creating a 'salary' draw for the team members.
>>I can fly to Utah for a few hundred bucks, put on field day operation, and create a way to have folks that want Utah a chance to work it. I wish I could go to BS7H in such a fashion.
>>Toto, we're not in Kansas anymore.....
>>> ---------- Original Message ----------------------------------
>From: rayfri <rayfri at highstream.net>
>Date: 2006年6月01日 15:53:42 -0600
>>>>>Steve:
>>Yes... I know that dxpeditions can cost a lot of money. No argument there.
>>HOWEVER .... one might ask WHY are the ops going on them then if they 
>>have to have money from other hams to go?
>>Are they turning these trips into a short term part time job? If so, 
>>then why dont they go all the way and say no one gets
>>a card or a contact unless they have paid the "salaries" of those who 
>>are going?
>>If not, then they must be going because of the thrill of the hobby and 
>>of the trip, and of the many contacts. It is for THEIR OWN thrills and 
>>excitement if that is the case, and again ... why would you expect me to 
>>pay for YOUR thrills anymore than you would expect me to pay for your 
>>vacation to Disneyland in order to get a mug or shirt? Why dont we 
>>extend that "payment" philosophy a bit more ... If anyone wants Utah 
>>or any other state for any reason then maybe I should expect that they 
>>will "donate" so that I can buy a newer rig .. newer antenna system 
>>..... maybe a higher power amp ... and other things so that I can have 
>>the best signal to give out the contact they are looking for?
>>I DONT expect that kind of consideration ... I am in this hobby for 
>>whatever I can do with whatever money I happen to be able to afford. 
>>Now if someone comes along and offers to give me a piece of gear they no 
>>longer want or need .... that is the same as if I come along and offer 
>>to give a dxpedition some money I dont happen to need to help them 
>>out.... 
>>If someone is going to say "I cant or wont go to the rare place unless 
>>people pay for the expenses" that's no different than me saying "I wont 
>>give you Utah unless you pay for a particular rig I think I need"...
>>>>Ray WA7ITZ
>>>>>>Steven Wheatley KU9C wrote:
>>>>>>>>>Ray,
>>>>>>I think a number of dxpeditions have published their expenses. It's considerable. 
>>>>>>Lets say that isn't an issue. But do this math. I'm plugging thru the YX0 cards. I've easily got 15000 envelopes sitting in front of me. 
>>>>>>If they were ALL USA envelopes, without SASE, postage is 5,850ドル. If they were all DX envelopes, without SASE, postage is 12,600ドル. That's an awful expensive bill to fund. 
>>>>>>An alternative, of course, is to just feel comfortable that 'i know i worked it'. I don't need a QSL to prove that. However, there are these awards.......
>>>>>>73
>>>>>>---------- Original Message ----------------------------------
>>>From: rayfri <rayfri at highstream.net>
>>>Date: 2006年6月01日 14:41:59 -0600
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>You know ... it USED to be an informal rule in the hobby (and I'm going 
>>>>to be dating myself with this one ... but I admit I have been in this 
>>>>hobby since the early 60s)... that "The final courtesy of a QSO is a 
>>>>QSL"... We didnt used to "charge" someone else
>>>>for our card ... not even an SASE was requested most of the time. I 
>>>>sent my card and requested one and got one back. That usually took 
>>>>place EVEN IF the other party didnt want mine in the first place. If I 
>>>>asked for one, the other ops were usually courteous enough to send one 
>>>>of theirs ... they knew I was probably going for some award.
>>>>>>>>It even worked that way with DX stations. Now days, unless youre going 
>>>>through a bureau, if you want a card, it seems that you have to PAY for 
>>>>that card ... a greenstamp, an IRC or some other form of "payment".
>>>>>>>>We may have sent some money to a DXpedition group before they left .. 
>>>>but it wasnt really expected that we would. The ops went on the 
>>>>DXpedition because they WANTED to ... It was their "vacation" if you 
>>>>will. I dont know how the rest of you do things .. but I sure as heck 
>>>>dont pay for my neighbors vacation to Disneyland with expectations that 
>>>>the neighbor family will bring me back a mug or a T-shirt or anything 
>>>>like that. Donating to support a DXpedition was the exception, not the 
>>>>rule .... It seems to be the rule now days for some reason. 
>>>>>>>>I've done a few "special event station" operations .. which, granted, 
>>>>arent as expensive as a DXpedition. During the 2002 Winter Olympics, 
>>>>we worked over two thousand stations. While it was mentioned that SASE 
>>>>was appreciated, it was NOT madatory that an SASE be sent ... or a 
>>>>greenstamp either.. A lot of stations did, and a lot didnt. Even 
>>>>those who didnt got a card. The only thing
>>>>that occured is that it might have taken a bit longer to get a non SASE 
>>>>card sent out .. but that was because it was faster to stuff a card into 
>>>>an SASE. Those without were worked on as quickly as possible though. 
>>>>>>>>This "expectation" of "payment" of some sort seems to be all part of 
>>>>today's societal philosophy of "what's in it for ME?"....
>>>>>>>>If I were to decide to go someplace and conduct a DXpedition, I wouldnt 
>>>>ask anyone for "contributions" and wouldnt expect to get "paid" in some 
>>>>manner for a QSL card in return. After all, it's a HOBBY not a 
>>>>profession.
>>>>>>>>Just my two cents worth.... And anyone who want, is free to throw 
>>>>stones at me now ... or rotten tomatoes. HI HI
>>>>>>>>Ray WA7ITZ
>>>>>>>>Danny Douglas wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>I have heard enough. First of all, the expediton got out a lot of cards as
>>>>>faster or faster than any other dxpediton I remember. Usually we wait while
>>>>>the organizers seem to juggle around to get a design, for weeks. Then they
>>>>>wait until they know how many incoming envelopes they receive, in order to
>>>>>not over-order cards. Then and only then they get around to starting to
>>>>>fill out responses. This group got that done in a quick hurry.
>>>>>>>>>>Now - I disagree with the methodology of going thru incoming envelopes, and
>>>>>taking "contributions" out and stacking the envelopes according to how much
>>>>>was in the envelope. To me that smacks of buying a card. I believe in the
>>>>>idea of "first in- first out". Its great that people want to help balance
>>>>>the finances of such an expedition, and I guess that this is all figured in
>>>>>when the budget is decided before the trip is completely planned and
>>>>>underway. I just dont feel that my, or anyone elses, financial status or
>>>>>contribution should figure in with the rate of card returns. I suspect in
>>>>>this case that the incoming envelopes were opened and some arbitrary
>>>>>stacking system was used, after the contributions were removed. Probably
>>>>>stacks of 100ドル or over, 75 or over, 50 or over, etc. down to those who
>>>>>simply put in a SASE (which I would almost bet is the majority).
>>>>>>>>>>Now, that many have blown off steam, its time to stop and just wait for your
>>>>>card. The group has no idea if your health is poor, if you are going to
>>>>>move next week, or its your last ever needed card - nor frankly, should any
>>>>>of those reasons make any difference to how quickly you get your card.
>>>>>Lets wait until they tell us all the cards have been responded to. Then,
>>>>>and only then should we send an email and ask. Your emails are slowing
>>>>>things down now, and causing the rest of us to wait longer - with you. When
>>>>>the card comes - I will have it. If I die first, it want make a tinkers
>>>>>dam when or if it comes.
>>>>>\
>>>>>----- Original Message ----- 
>>>>>From: "Jack - K4WSB" <K4WSB at arrl.net>
>>>>>To: "HK3CW" <cwdude at gmail.com>; <dx-qsl at mailman.qth.net>
>>>>>Sent: Thursday, June 01, 2006 10:03 AM
>>>>>Subject: Re: [Dx-qsl] Peter One
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Amen,
>>>>>>>>>>>>All you complainers and conspiracy believers should try and be a QSL
>>>>>>manager sometime... especially for a station putting several hundred
>>>>>>(thousand) QSO's daily into the log. How long do you think it takes to
>>>>>>sort the mail, open the envelope, check the log, print a QSL, stuff and
>>>>>>lick the envelope and get it to the mailbox?
>>>>>>>>>>>>I caught the tail end of a discussion at the ICOM booth during the Dayton
>>>>>>hamfest. They had just finished several thousand(S) and got them in the
>>>>>>mail just before leaving for Dayton.
>>>>>>>>>>>>For those that belive BIG BUCKS get served first: if it was me those
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>cards
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>would be mailed out as soon as the expedition was over, otherwise how long
>>>>>>would it take to sort through the sacks to find the envelopes from those
>>>>>>stations.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>At 07:47 AM 6/1/2006 -0500, HK3CW wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Crap...the speed that you receive your QSL is directly proportional to
>>>>>>>your patience. Why the big fuzz about it? Can't you wait, do you think
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>ops or are going to steal your freakin 2 dollars? or 10 or 15 ...
>>>>>>>Get a life people!
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>73 de HK3CW so..I have not rcvd my qsl either...so what??
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>----- Original Message ----- From: "Tom" <n4nw at n4nw.org>
>>>>>>>To: <dx-qsl at mailman.qth.net>
>>>>>>>Sent: Thursday, June 01, 2006 6:55 AM
>>>>>>>Subject: Re: [Dx-qsl] Peter One
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>The speed in which you will receive your QSL is directly proportional to
>>>>>>>>the amount of money you sent to support the operation!
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>At 10:26 PM 05/31/2006, you wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Is there anyone on the list who sent their card around 27 Feb and
>>>>>>>>>contributed what they could and how they could who does not have a card
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>yet ?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Just wondering.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>And getting suspicious; I'd like to make a comment but won't.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Thank you
>>>>>>>>>Matt WV1K
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Jack Hartley
>>>>>>>>K4WSB
>>>>>>>>ARRL - QCWA - OOTC
>>>>>>>>DXCC Honor Roll
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>"Don't it always seem to go that you don't know what you've
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>got...till it's gone." from Big Yellow Taxi (Joni Mitchell) but also
>>>>>true about QSL.NET if more users don't open their wallets and help
>>>>>financially. Please contribute TODAY !!
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>-- 
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>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>"Don't it always seem to go that you don't know what you've got...till it's gone." from Big Yellow Taxi (Joni Mitchell) but also true about QSL.NET if more users don't open their wallets and help financially. Please contribute TODAY !!
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>"Don't it always seem to go that you don't know what you've got...till it's gone." from Big Yellow Taxi (Joni Mitchell) but also true about QSL.NET if more users don't open their wallets and help financially. Please contribute TODAY !!
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>