[Antennas] ground mounted vertical radials question

Wed Nov 15 09:51:46 EST 2006

Bill,
Who do you want me to quote, W2FMI or ON4UN?. What measure of 
evaluation? Increase of 0.2 dB in the far field? Why not 1.0 dB, or 
even 3 dB? Who is going to notice 1/2 an S unit, particular with QSB 
over 10 dB? As I don't want to get into a flaming contest, this 
will be my last communication on the subject.
I agree on this: add radials until the ground resistance essentially 
stops decreasing.
73, Chas
At 11:54 PM 11/14/2006, Dr. William J. Schmidt, II wrote:
><<Using more than 16 radials does not help much.>>
>>Prove this.... Show me mathematically how this makes any sense.
>>Sincerely,
>>Dr. William J. Schmidt, II K9HZ
>Trustee of the North American QRO - Central Division Club - K9ZC
>>Email: bill at wjschmidt.com
>WebPage: www.wjschmidt.com
>>"If you drink... don't drive. Don't even putt" - Dean Martin.
>>>----- Original Message ----- From: "Charles Greene" <crgreene at cox.net>
>To: "David Ashworth" <fathom at dslextreme.com>; <antennas at mailman.qth.net>
>Sent: Tuesday, November 14, 2006 8:34 PM
>Subject: Re: [Antennas] ground mounted vertical radials question
>>>>David,
>>>>The best approach is to go for more radials on the order of 0.1 
>>wavelength rather than less radials that are longer. I have a 
>>Hustler 6BTV and I put 2 radials for each band about a 1/4 wave 
>>length each; however, that was several years ago and I'm smarter 
>>now. So if a radial is 0.1 wavelength on 80, it is 0.2 wavelength 
>>on 40, 0.4 wavelength on 20 and so on so it is an effective length 
>>on all bands. The reason for this is that current in the ground 
>>radial drops off over 0.1 wavelength so making the wire longer is 
>>not necessary, but the longer wire does not degrade the effect of 
>>the radial, so the longer wires are still an effective length. You 
>>would think 1/2 wavelength would not be a good length as it would 
>>ofer a high impedance at the antenna, but looking at the current 
>>that is not the case. Using more than 16 radials does not help 
>>much. In other words, 32 radials marginally better than 16, but 
>>not twice as good.
>>>>>>73, Chas W1CG
>>>>At 12:37 AM 11/11/2006, David Ashworth wrote:
>>>Hello to all. Will be installing a Hustler 5BTV vertical on the ground, up
>>>in the country where there is no problem with people tripping over radials.
>>>The radials will NOT be buried. They will be placed upon the ground. Been
>>>reading my reference material on radials, but would like to hear from
>>>operators that have been there/done that. The lowest band will be 80 meters
>>>and the highest 10 meters. Hustler recommends at least two radials per
>>>band. Then, been reading W2FMI's book about short verticals. Think he was
>>>happy with about 40 radials. Am I on the right track, the more radials, the
>>>better, up to a certain point? The soil there is very dry unless it has
>>>been raining. As soon as the sun comes out, there goes the moisture content
>>>of the soil. So, would it be better to spread, say 40 radials at 1/8
>>>wavelength, or maybe 20 at 1/4 wavelength? Would you spread some for just
>>>80, or do a combination of the different bands? If this was salt water, bet
>>>you could throw a coat hanger in there, but it is not. Any good ideas? I
>>>am leaning towards less radials and longer radials, but experience is the
>>>best teacher. Thank you for your comments/recommendations, Dave, NC6P.
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