[Antennas] T2FD was:: Antennas Digest, Vol 8, Issue 5

Thu Sep 9 22:59:22 EDT 2004

Larry,
I was came back home from Daytona Beach Florida where I was able to use one
of those antennas at the OCS. The antenna is hung like a dipole rather than
a slanted dipole, so it didn't perform its best.
The antenna was like an attenuator on 75 meters. I can communicate to
Daytona Beach from home on my dipole pretty well barefoot, but this was a
serious struggle to communicate to Augusta and this was with the same rig I
use here.
I can say this with confidence. The T2FD was the best thing for the
Emergency Management operation, but it is the worst thing one can use for
contesting or paper-chasing! Ok, maybe not the worst, but far from the
best. 
If you are looking for an antenna to take portable, get on the air quickly
and easily and to use temporarily, then I believe you will find that t2fd is
a great option to fill that purpose. That is what the government uses them
for. But if you want to get every ounce of energy you can get from your rig
or to receive weak signals, then the T2FD is not good. 
If you need a quick, simple-to-use broadband antenna, and don't care about
signal strength, it will work fine. I am not saying it won't work 300
countries, but it will likely take longer than using the equivalent dipole
for the desired frequency. 
Around here there are a number of hams that enjoy rag-chewing with their
"group" usually here in the south-east. Some of these men have 1kw amps and
dipole antennas. Generally speaking, if any of them used the T2FD, they
would fairly quickly adjust to its limitations and wouldn't have a problem
with it. But, you sound like you are trying to DX. From Augusta, I can
usually talk to any station full scale on my meter on 75 meters when I am
only running 100 watts. However, with the T2FD, that was not true. I
received very poor reports almost across the board. I not only noticed
that the signals were weak, but even the static crashes were attenuated.
(that could have its advantage.)
It is my opinion that the T2FD has its place and purpose and is well worth
it to have on hand for that purpose. However, for a home antenna for
permanent installation, I think the money you would by that antenna for
would be better spent on a more complicated antenna or a series of dipoles
resonant at your desired bands. I wouldn't mind having one to take camping
with me, but hey, my dipole does really well at home and costs much much
less.
For what its worth.
Buck
N4PGW
-----Original Message-----
From: Larry Fields [mailto:n6hpx_du1 at hotmail.com] 
 I been hearing pros and cons on these antennas. I been wanting to buy the 
newer models <silver models> as I heard from a overseas friend that they 
were terrific antennas for dx. But one store I went to claimed they was no 
good an created alot more noise.
 Would love to just try one.
 Larry Fields,n6hpx/du1
>From: "Buck" <na4fm-list at towncorp.net>
>Subject: RE: [Antennas] B&W AC 1.8-30 vs BWD terminated antennas?
>To: "'Phil Florig'" <W9IXX at arrl.net>,	"'Antenna Reflector'"
>	<antennas at mailman.qth.net>
>Message-ID: <20040906035333.BBE0D859BF9 at mailman.qth.net>
>Content-Type: text/plain;	charset="us-ascii"
>>A friend of mine who is very active in the club and even more interested in
>antennas than I (That's saying a lot!) received one of the t2fd antennas
>from a ham that thought it sucked. He has been studying the antenna and
>testing it now for about three months. We have discussed it extensively on
>the air. Here are the conclusions I get from it.
>>The B/W antenna is not exactly the same specs as the original. It is a
>"tilted" dipole and in order to get the proper performance from it, it 
>needs
>to be tilted at the correct angle as in the instructions.
>>When properly installed and carefully compared to a slanted dipole, the 
>T2FD
>works almost exactly the same as the dipoles except for two bands, I forget
>if it were the longer two bands or the shorter two. I think it is a little
>lossy on the bands that are longer than the antenna. Regardless, it was
>still effective even then.
>>The previous owner hung the antenna up like a dipole and had nothing to
>compare it to but his beam.
>>You can find more information on the internet about the antenna. It's
>proper name is the Terminated Tilted Folded Dipole and is most commonly
>referred to as the T2FD or TTFD. The reviews I read on the internet are
>mixed. There are plenty of folk who really don't like the antenna and
>plenty that praise it.
>>Remember it's purpose and your purpose for having it. It was made to setup
>quickly and easily and to work instantly. If you are working DX primarily,
>it may not be suitable, but if you can only have one antenna and it fits
>your real estate, then you may have a real winner there.
>>Wishing you the best.
>>N4PGW
>73 for now
>Buck
>>>-----Original Message-----
>From: Phil Florig [mailto:W9IXX at arrl.net]
>Sent: Sunday, September 05, 2004 9:54 PM
>To: Antenna Reflector
>Subject: Re: [Antennas] B&W AC 1.8-30 vs BWD terminated antennas?
>>Hi guys,
>>Thought might make a few comments to maybe clear a few things.
>>1. The resistor that is in the B&W antenna is not at the feed point,
>it is at the end where the two folded wires return to the center area.
>>2. I would also be interested in hearing an answer to Jays' question
>but have not seen yet.
>>3. Was mentioned below that the antenna is less effective than a dipole
>and is not intended for DX work.
>>4. The prime advantage to the antenna is that it can be instantly switched
>to ANY frequency and still have a less that 2:1 swr. This ant is used on
>ALL frequencies in the range of 3-30MHZ. In MARS and Gov. services we use
>ALE which switches in the millisec range and therefor don't have time
>to use a tuner either auto or manual.
>>5. I have up a 170ft B&W unit and it does not compare to the inverted V's
>but I know that and don't rely on it for ham work. Sure is a nice idea
>though if you want to change freq rapidly w/o tuning. Be the first there
>when a new spot comes up...... HI......
>>6. I know some have done research on the ant and LB Cebik has an article
>on this type of antenna. As long as I have this antenna up and working
>if anyone wants any info or testing information I will try to help with
>tests if I can. Have limited equipment and antenna knowledge and that's
>why I think this reflector is great. I have learned a lot here and
>appreciate
>all the input. Keep up the good conversation.
>>73 Phil W9IXX/AAM4ENC/AAR4XX
>PS: Usual disclaimers apply if required...
>>>At 20:36 9/4/2004, you wrote:
> >Has anyone run an efficiency comparison between the Barker and Williamson
> >BWD ninety-foot terminated folded dipole or "T2FD" antenna, versus their
> >similar AC 1.8-30 terminated end-fed vee?
> >
> >A few thoughts:
> >I am guessing that the vee encloses more space and could be more 
>efficient
> >in that regard.
> >Both antennas use similar baluns and load resistors.
> >Both are loops if you consider the counterpoise wire in the AC 1.8-30 
>going
> >from one leg of the balun to one leg of the resistor.
> >
> >I'm aware that these antennas are a few DB less efficient in the 2 and 4
>MHz
> >bands than
> >a resonant wire- but my application is instant frequency change, NVIS and
> >not QRP or DX.
> >
> >Thanks,
> >Jay
> >AAR9QM/W6CJ
> >
> >
> >
> >- - -
> >
> >Your moderator for this list is:
> >Larry Wilson KE1HZ antennas-owner at mailman.qth.net
> >_______________________________________________
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>>-----------------------------------------------
>Philip Florig e-mail:pflorig at ieee.org
>115 Horne Rd. (or):W9IXX at arrl.net
>Columbus, NC. 28722 amateur radio:W9IXX
>USA also:C6AXX-J3X-T30,31,32,33P-VP2MPF
> team member:AH1A-C6DX-J3A-VP2MX
> MARS:AAM4ENC/AAR4XX
>-----------------------------------------------
>IPR Systems, Inc. tel: 1-708-385-7500
>11651 Mayfield Ave. fax: 1-708-385-7515
>Alsip, IL. 60803 email:info at iprsys.com
>USA web:iprsys.com
> INDUSTRIAL POWER SUPPLIES & RECTIFIERS
>-----------------------------------------------
>>- - -
>>Your moderator for this list is:
>Larry Wilson KE1HZ antennas-owner at mailman.qth.net
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>>>>>>>------------------------------
>>Message: 2
>Date: Sun, 5 Sep 2004 23:57:46 -0400
>From: "Buck" <na4fm-list at towncorp.net>
>Subject: RE: [Antennas] B&W AC 1.8-30 vs BWD terminated antennas?
>To: <antennas at mailman.qth.net>
>Message-ID: <20040906040041.2172C859DC5 at mailman.qth.net>
>Content-Type: text/plain;	charset="us-ascii"
>>BTW, that works! I once had a 100 ohm/300 watt resister. For kicks and
>giggles, I cut wires for an 80 meter dipole, connected them to either end 
>of
>the resister like a cobra head and ran coax to the wires. The resistor was
>actually between the shield and center conductor with the wires extending
>outwards. The antenna worked on 80-10. When I checked into the 75 meter
>net, I did not have a great signal, but I was readable. Ten meters was 
>open
>and I made several contacts, but when I removed the resistor, the receive
>signal improved incredibly! The SWR was under 3:1, but I don't know by how
>much. I had a tube rig and that was all I worried about. Today, we want
>1.5:1 or better.
>>BTW, I DON'T recommend that for a QRP antenna unless it is an emergency.
>Then a dipole would be better.
>>FWIW.
>>Buck
>N4PGW
>>>>>-----Original Message-----
>From: William Lambing [mailto:w0lpq9 at msn.com]
><<<SNIP>>>
>>Having a resistor at the feed point is about like putting a dummy load at
>the end of the feed line and hanging wires out to radiate.
>>>>>>>------------------------------
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>Antennas at mailman.qth.net
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>>>End of Antennas Digest, Vol 8, Issue 5
>**************************************

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