>doh, I spoke too soon. I should use grep instead of my eyes. my lauxlib >does in fact have luaL_ref... You can also navigate the source code at http://www.lua.org/source/5.0/ luaL_ref is at http://www.lua.org/source/5.0/src_lib_lauxlib.c.html#luaL_ref You get there by following the link in lua.h... --lhf