#asciilifeform | 2021年08月09日

01:05 vex are you still boozing hard?

01:05 adlai yes, although less often.

01:06 adlai there are a bunch of ways to drink yourself to death slowly, instead of all in one gulp

01:07 adlai e.g., I mostly avoid buying bottles; the whole "you never find a brick under a junkie's bed" cliche is quite accurate.

01:08 adlai although, the quarantine atmosphere does make me severely consider cultivating some proper lone drunkard habits

01:08 * adlai did once get police called on him while drinking at the previous apartment, so these habits need some planning

01:09 vex whaddaya usually go to the pub?

01:09 adlai yep

01:09 vex sensible

01:09 adlai back when I had friends who drank, I'd occasionally drink with friends.

01:09 adlai these days I am quite certainly the "pet drunkard" of any friends I may have left.

01:10 * adlai can't recall whether he ever explained the "pet drunkard" concept here; it is one that he explained several times, irl, along with its converse

01:10 vex i get it

01:10 adlai vex: you might actually find this concept, and teh converse, quite logical

01:11 adlai it was originally explained to me by a stoner friend, as something along the lines of "I really need to talk to my straightedge again, it's been too long that I've only hung out with potheads"

01:12 adlai followed by dead silence, and "what's a straightedge?" from the guy who never talked to anyone unless there were both drugs and money in the conversation

01:12 adlai the general idea being that if your friend group is too homogenized, then you can get frog-boiled.

01:13 adlai vex: you still drink?

01:14 vex fucking oath, I threw my still out a few years sgo tho

01:14 adlai oath!?

01:14 adlai whaddaya wanna be pope someday?

01:14 vex it's an aussieism, it means `my word'

01:15 * adlai doesn't understand your answer

01:15 vex yes, i do still drink

01:15 adlai you could cuss and trash your still, and still drink... yeah

01:15 adlai wouldja believe that stills are illegal in Israel?

01:15 adlai well maybe owning one is not illegal

01:16 vex yes, i'd belive that

01:16 adlai like shroom spores... you can own them, just don't use them!

01:17 adlai what kinda hooch did you used to make?

01:18 vex I made the purest etoh I could

01:18 * adlai only ever knowingly drank moonshine twice... both resulted in riotous headaches, although the hooch wasn't the only thing drunk either time

01:18 adlai this is the way!

01:19 adlai if it's the color of kidneystone piss, it probably tastes worse

01:21 * adlai wonders whether to resume the dangling thread

01:21 dulapbot Logged on 2021年08月08日 15:50:45 adlai: is not having this conversation now, although thank you for the invitation

01:23 adlai ain't nothing worse than a drunkard arguing with a streetlight that ain't even there; except, perhaps, a dealer leaning against a lamppost that is not uniformed

01:24 adlai the main reason I let that thread dangle, earlier, is because the answer "does not fit within the margin"

01:26 adlai upon this rock I shall build my example: let's say your software is a book explaining what stan means by each of the sane laws of computing, except loper-os.org has been tarred, burned, and censored, and all that remains is commentaries by the fan club.

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01:28 * adlai notes, [asciilifeform] idle: 1 day, 03 hours, and thus continues talking to himself

01:29 vex he's prolly huffung eth :)

01:29 adlai nahh, he's probably busy hand-optimizing a spike protein spectroscopy robot

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01:29 vex or otherwise busy making a living

01:30 adlai who knows, maybe he got blessed with the job of rubberhosing MP!

01:30 adlai the world is small enough for this.

01:31 adlai so, both the seven laws, and the attributes of bricklisp, are actually not relevant to software

01:32 adlai which is exactly why my example-rock is "a book explaining", rather than 'trb', 'stator', 'musl', or even "metafont version algebraic-number-suchandsuch"

01:33 adlai ... it could be that a good example for arguing about widespread software flagdays is metafont

01:34 adlai or tex, although I'm too painfully familiar with the latter

01:36 vex I really enjoyed listening to mp & alf argue

01:37 adlai this is getting dangerously close to another dangling thread, one that i'd much rather resume than ... how is software updated, vs. how it should be updated

01:37 dulapbot Logged on 2021年07月30日 08:21:52 adlai: the question that led to this dangling thread is quite boring: "have you ever OCRed sheet music?"

01:38 adlai my claim is that alf's recognition of OCR as a problem stillborn is due to the problem's being phrased too loosely.

01:38 vex go on

01:39 adlai sure, if you try to OCR a practice notebook that's got seven generations of scribbles, half of them rubbed out and rewritten, then you will have an AI-complete time, gouge your eyes out, and find a teacher who specializes in blind kids.

01:41 adlai same for OCRing captchas, crumpled newsprint fished out of recycle bins, pirate copies of the constitution, etc

01:41 adlai bad examples are endless.

01:42 vex what's the solution to a loosly worded problem?

01:43 adlai perhaps a better problem to attack is "what are the minimal constraints to impose upon the typesetting macros, that enable bit-identical reconstruction by the reverser"

01:43 vex perhaps

01:43 adlai e.g., "never let a legato mark cross a fingering hint"

01:44 adlai e.g., "do not typeset mathematics"

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01:44 adlai etc!

01:45 vex humans are cheap, use humans

01:45 adlai humans are stupid, even without prolonged hypoxia

01:46 * adlai doubts magic nucleocapsids make humans stupid ~without~ hypoxia being the direct cause of idiocy

01:47 adlai then again, "I am neither a doctor of philosophy, nor a doctor of justice"

01:47 vex where's that from?

01:47 * adlai

01:47 vex a doctor of medecine perhaps?

01:47 adlai nyet, not yet

01:48 vex you're working towards it?

01:48 adlai I have considered enrolling to study that, although apparently the local schools are badly allocated.

01:48 asciilifeform http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-08-08#1050842 << lol! ( would like to say 'ah yes!' but in fact was doing 'unsexy' auto maintenance things -- not being mp (tm)(r)(r) i dun have minions to do it -- and similar chores )

01:48 dulapbot Logged on 2021年08月08日 21:25:19 adlai: nahh, he's probably busy hand-optimizing a spike protein spectroscopy robot

01:48 adlai they overprovide for talk therapy, and underprovide for veterinary medicine

01:49 adlai asciilifeform: well, the internet-of-things-that-move is what, three nines of the reversing market?

01:49 adlai windows virii gonna go the way of the prealpha variant, someday

01:50 asciilifeform adlai: wouldn't know, got outta that racket long ago

01:51 adlai my guess is that the windows virii ecosystem will have a looong-tailed death, although this is more due to industrial control systems and braindead office corporations, than any inherent fitness of the virii themselves

01:52 adlai whydya call it a racket, though?

01:53 adlai forensics against an infected computer it is no more racketry than pediatrics is a ponzi.

01:54 vex someone else was making all the coin. qed racket

01:54 asciilifeform ^

01:54 adlai saturated markets are the worst.

01:57 adlai someday maybe I'll pick up the other dangle, although I am still too ignorant today

01:57 dulapbot Logged on 2021年07月30日 08:30:51 adlai: defaults to "musst nicht sprechen" re:1812.00942; after all, the only thing he understands worse than bitcoin, is topology

01:58 adlai back to topic, I am gradually forming greater empathy towards the statistic I found in the university shitrag, that students of medicine eat nagant much more commonly than bureaucrats would like.

01:59 adlai this I read while enrolled for chemistry; ditching that in favor of mathematics, dual with 'earth sciences', did not much improve my own motivations.

02:00 adlai all this was before the zoomocalypse.

02:01 * adlai does often consider enrolling in a trade school that is quite blatantly a trade school, rather than "oh, we r university, look upon our public grant cheese and respair"

02:01 adlai obviously for-profit schools get all the hate, especially so soon after trump's fame.

02:03 adlai maybe I should enroll in Draper University for Heros; this would make a good section in an Encyclopedia Drammatica entry, no?

02:03 vex go do med; adlais pathology lab will make millies

02:05 adlai more likely prognosis is travelling circus of tattoo removal and reclawing felines

02:05 vex lol

02:05 adlai pathology lab = much capex on concrete

02:05 adlai not to mention opex in cement

02:06 adlai actually bingoboingo's plan sounded cool

02:06 vex wassat?

02:07 * adlai digs

02:07 vex what plan was that?

02:08 vex treasure hunting?

02:08 adlai staying away from the sparse plates

02:08 dulapbot Logged on 2021年06月27日 18:51:30 BingoBoingo: Many ships loaded with Inca riches never made it to Spain. Some may have died hugging the coast too much

02:09 adlai ofc my practical metaphysics is slightly different from "if only captain keeps coin, boat = racket"

02:09 adlai mileage varies by trade.

02:11 vex the dubloons are under a fuckton of mud

02:13 adlai this is why you leave treasure hunting to folks who already have the capital to blow on capex, and learn trades instead

02:13 vex `cursed' if you like

02:15 adlai anyway, it's a moot point, since the days of "walk to port, see whether they're hiring" went the way of "walk to factory, compare parity of headcount and limbcount, maybe they are hiring!"

02:16 vex i'd say those days are still existant, and in full swing

02:16 * adlai will reconsider this tactic after ~half-decade of miserly psychopath behavior

02:16 adlai it depends what world you walk

02:17 adlai if your path goes by lenovo assembly plant in zero-reported-cases-of-plagueistan, sure

02:17 vex and if your path is back and fro from the pub, you sure as shit want something to show for it

02:18 vex otherwise useless

02:19 adlai whereas in "1st world!!!oneoneone!!", all "help wanted" signs are pretty invariably either "sweep floor under braindead bureaucrat's wheelie armchair", or "sell fine high-quality well-branded never-overpriced trademarks, wholesaled direct from dropshipper, to pedestrian dinks and yuppies"

02:20 * adlai did at one point go through listings of jobs advertised to students, middled by the university; ~dozen phone calls amounted to ~nothing

02:20 vex I fucking love reading adali

02:20 adlai tbh, phone calls and emails

02:21 adlai the pandemic somewhat killed the whole "walk into workplace" approach

02:21 vex says who?

02:22 vex get a stylish mask

02:22 adlai e.g., one of the best possibilities that I encountered was various menial jobs at the cute little botanical garden next to the university campus... except, they stopped accepting public visitors, all "help wanted" notices cancelled until further notice

02:23 vex walking in is very different to help wanted

02:23 * adlai hates the capex

02:23 vex I'd guess that most organisations never knew they needed an adlai

02:24 adlai I've seen how friends got walkin jobs at bars and cafes

02:24 adlai the capex ranges from... enough work experience to coldread the room, to... dude who could open a barbershop with his family cheese.

02:25 adlai except, wanted to work at someone else's racket, because not idiot!

02:26 adlai most organisations probably don't need an adlai, tbh

02:26 vex don't tell `em that

02:27 adlai "greatest strength: writes like an illiterate; greatest weakness: honesty"

02:27 vex get a nice suit made and turn up

02:27 adlai believe it or not, I have never owned a suit.

02:27 vex you're far from illiterate

02:27 * adlai somehow survived over three years of prep school without owning a suit!

02:27 vex get one

02:28 * adlai has worn suits; never owned.

02:28 vex get a time machine to 1983 wall street

02:28 adlai pfffffffff

02:28 vex cocaine word salad. fucking minted!

02:29 vex seriously, you're a sharp dude

02:29 adlai it's the fkin twenties, it should be possible to wall street without the time machine to 1983

02:29 vex there you go

02:30 vex it's the twenties. i never thought of that

02:30 adlai this is why my plan includes the half decade of miserly psychopathy

02:30 vex lol

02:31 adlai there is a chance that I will actually have no problem whatsoever paying the capital gains bribe, grafting bottles of cognac to accountants, etc, in a few years.

02:31 adlai right now, though, I am more likely to get certificates in accounting, nursing, and microsoft network admin, than wearing a suit to a job interview.

02:32 vex not sure how firece adlais troll game is

02:33 vex you're serious

02:33 adlai yes

02:33 adlai fwiw, job interviews in Israel rarely expect you to wear a suit

02:34 vex that doesn't mean you can't

02:34 adlai wall street's "business casual" would be considered being dressed for some occasion in ~every office in Israel

02:34 * vex has never been to Israel

02:35 adlai the place is quite terrible

02:35 vex hey, if there's a pub, I'm set

02:36 adlai there is a nonzero chance that I'll die sober and renounced in some dingy downtown apartment in Tehran, if Israel keeps going the way it has been

02:37 adlai supposedly there is a vibrant nonzionist jewish community there.

02:37 adlai similar to the folks in new york, who wouldn't get on a plane to israel if you paid them in uncut gems

02:37 signpost lol @ cocaine word salad

02:38 adlai oi signpost ! where you pointin?

02:38 vex lol @ you last gem sir, i forget the funny, but I spit my cofee out

02:38 signpost et u bruv

02:39 adlai signpost: ocean acidification is the new climate change

02:39 signpost all is vanity, where's my mother

02:40 adlai this does not mean you have to actually develop any strong opinion either way

02:40 signpost yeah, that was pretty much my point, actually

02:40 signpost "what do I know, and whatever, death is a release far earlier than the day your pulse stops" etc

02:41 adlai well, you can start by focusing your worries

02:41 adlai e.g., ocean acidification is a K1-level problem; whereas acid rain is a K0

02:41 adlai K0 being "addressable by less than the entire planetary economy"

02:42 asciilifeform perhaps apropos, http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-08-07#1050604 << i can picture this goin' places you wouldn't necessarily like. 'drink coffee? not employable' 'has sex?' 'likes to sunbathe?' [insert enjoyable but undesirable from insurer-of-bovines pov activity]

02:42 dulapbot Logged on 2021年08月07日 23:08:17 mats: well, more like they won't employ you if you admit to tobacco use

02:43 * adlai rounded down aggressively; if you want to troll this out, there's a whole K-topology of urban problems, suburban problems, etc

02:43 asciilifeform ftr i aint even convinced that phaseout of tobacco wasn't a factor in blowing the bottom outta euro civ

02:43 adlai didja know that there are still people who claim that tobacco smoking has any benefits, whatsoever?

02:44 * adlai was surprised to encounter more than zero of these during his lifetime

02:44 asciilifeform adlai: the benefits, if such exist, aint necessarily accessible to you or i

02:44 signpost asciilifeform: I'd believe it. all this "attention deficit" was probably lurking under the nicotine foom.

02:44 asciilifeform ^

02:45 adlai it's definitely possible to split between benefits of nicotine as nootropic, and the smoking behavior

02:46 signpost incidentially, tried oxiracetam a while back.

02:46 adlai what I was surprised to encounter was people who actually claim that smoking, with all the risks of lung cancer etc, is overall beneficial

02:46 asciilifeform signpost: pretty sure i've tried all the known *racetams..

02:46 * asciilifeform can't attest to a useful effect

02:47 adlai most smokers who actually tolerated the subject eventually claimed some sort of agnosticism

02:47 * signpost noticed a moderate focused buzz with oxi, not enough of a step beyond coffee to bother.

02:48 mats i like caffeine pills a lot

02:48 * adlai spent several years of his life practicing almost rabid smoking-atheism, so had quite a few of these conversations with active smokers

02:48 asciilifeform adlai: since prev. thread touched on the very related vaccine wank -- you may already be familiar with 'beneficial on civilizational scale, but not necessarily for YOU, in particular'

02:48 signpost adlai: I used to chain smoke like a fiend.

02:49 adlai sure, although that is not the kind of benefit to which I referred

02:49 signpost hand rollies too.

02:49 asciilifeform fact is -- errything which distinguishes us from the apes, was created by folx who -- en masse, if not 'to a man' necessarily -- 1) drank 2) smoked 3) considered both entirely normal for grown man

02:49 signpost sniff of cocaine here and there, even.

02:49 asciilifeform for instance.

02:50 asciilifeform whereas the current-day 'be smart, don't start'(tm)(r) civ so far aint much to write home about.

02:50 vex best monkey

02:50 adlai I never got as far as "ok, mr chainsmoker neurosurgeon, please draw mechanisms of how tar metabolites lead to reincarnation of ubermensch", although my impression was that it's similar to how "if it hurts, stop doing it" leads to never exercising

02:51 vex neurosurgeons are generally straightedge

02:52 adlai good word, vex ; the idiomatic preimage from the conversation, whence I took that idea, does not equal "zealotously sober"

02:53 adlai it's closer to "actively seeks out the consensus of first-world peer pressure"

02:53 asciilifeform adlai: if yer interested genuinely in the answer, rather than snark/feeling of superiority -- betcha you could get an interesting answer outta that surgeon.

02:53 asciilifeform for instance, that a cig steadies his hands. or deadens sense of smell (afaik virtually all, e.g. pathologoanatomists, smoke) etc

02:53 adlai asciilifeform: probably, once I actually have such a conversation with a surgeon!

02:53 * asciilifeform not surgeon, does not propose to know

02:54 * adlai does not have any operators in wot, fwiw

02:54 vex you prolly woulda mada a good one alf

02:54 adlai talk therapist with a certificate /= operator

02:55 adlai my favorite psychiatrist's motto is "a psychiatrist is nothing more than a doctor who is afraid of blood", and I am probably a bit too young to have enough frie^H^H^Hacquaintances that the wot includes active operators.

02:56 asciilifeform http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-08-08#1050626 << 'health insurance' is simply riotously bogus concept.

02:56 dulapbot Logged on 2021年08月08日 13:42:25 mats: what's more likely is that they'll just lie to secure employment, discovered during treatment for an unrelated issue, get fired, sued by the insurance company, and perhaps prosecuted for fraud

02:56 verisimilitude http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-08-08#1050769 I used a dice to decide.

02:56 dulapbot Logged on 2021年08月08日 17:36:58 verisimilitude: I need to write today, but I'm not certain what I should write about, and my work will disappoint me no matter what I do.

02:56 verisimilitude Hello, adlai.

02:56 asciilifeform wb verisimilitude

02:57 vex so, what are you writing about?

02:57 verisimilitude I began work on an English Elision dictionary.

02:57 verisimilitude It's extremely disappointing.

02:58 verisimilitude I'd already begun, rather, and choose to mention it today.

02:59 vex heck, it might be useful, we've been discussing ocr

02:59 asciilifeform http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-08-08#1050675 << outta curiosity, mats, how many times does asciilifeform need to personally catch the virus and say 'big fat load of nuffin' (current counter -- at least 1) before he gets to wipe his arse with this so-called 'science' ?

02:59 dulapbot Logged on 2021年08月08日 14:30:48 mats: i distrust usg about as much as anyone else here i think, its not equivalent to denying science

02:59 verisimilitude That's one application already thought of, yes.

02:59 asciilifeform y'know, like wipe arse with 'climate science'.

03:00 adlai verisimilitude: didja ever digest this partial objection ?

03:00 dulapbot Logged on 2021年02月04日 11:12:16 adlai: admits that zipf-shaped is an overly handwavy dismissal; the idea being that natural-language text, unless compressed to the point of being effectively a random blob, still does contain probabilistic structure

03:00 vex did you get the delta alf?

03:00 asciilifeform vex: how'd i know.

03:00 vex can i haz stuff?

03:00 verisimilitude Rephrase it for me, adlai.

03:00 vex only joking alf. you're tuff as fuck

03:01 verisimilitude I also caught it and, while I'd some issues, it wasn't life-threatening.

03:01 verisimilitude It was simply the worst cold I'd ever had.

03:01 * vex hasn't had it

03:01 asciilifeform the sense of smell thing was annoying. ( asciilifeform aint a pathologoanatomist.. )

03:02 adlai verisimilitude: my guess is that you'll have better luck building Verisimilitude-Anonymouth, than elision for a live language; and I have no idea regarding e.g. 'modern standard arabic', 'francais a l'academie', etc

03:02 asciilifeform http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-08-08#1050712 << recall btw why polio even existed , when it did, where it did.

03:02 dulapbot Logged on 2021年08月08日 15:52:34 signpost: billymg: my grandfather "trusted" (by way of no alternative) his immune system with polio, and happened to beat it

03:02 verisimilitude Oh my, how close to the mark that is; just wait to read it, adlai.

03:03 asciilifeform ( likbez re polio. )

03:03 dulapbot (trilema) 2018年12月11日 asciilifeform: ( likbez : man is the only known reservoir. and spread in shit. prior to mid 20th c, vanishingly rare, cuz damn near errybody inoculated through exposure to ~some~ liquishit in water. then suddenly ~0 shit-eating, among the industrial city folx, and thing appears on epidemiological map )

03:03 adlai I realize that you aim for writing in a recent and modernly-compatible dialect of english-the-lowercase-braindamage, rather than spamoladujour, yet this is still different from standardized languages.

03:03 mats asciilifeform likely has a decent diet and lives in sanitary conditions

03:04 vex meh^

03:04 asciilifeform mats: possibly. but where then are the expected 1e8 suddenly dead africans ?

03:05 vex the world changes

03:05 mats africa's population is growing really quickly

03:05 asciilifeform mats: how's this relate ?

03:05 mats it doesn't, just that a lot of the population is young

03:05 asciilifeform what, no one counts the corpses, only total walking heads, there ?

03:06 adlai re:liquishit - while markets climbed the wall of panic off the fumes of vaccine hopium, I joked that I was already vaccinated because I eat fruit off the sidewalk. joke did not seem to go over too well.

03:06 adlai also, fruit off the sidewalk tastes worse than tap water, no matter what municipality allows it

03:08 adlai the various african nations have surprisingly low covid death counts in the stats reported to the WHO

03:08 vex africa largely moves around slowly on foot

03:08 asciilifeform http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-08-08#1050720 << >> http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-08-03#1050208

03:08 dulapbot Logged on 2021年08月08日 16:05:31 billymg: do we assume the other 89% is attributed to suicide, drug overdoses, etc. stemming from lockdown depression?

03:08 dulapbot Logged on 2021年08月03日 14:03:58 asciilifeform: punkman: the shuttering of hospitals under banner of covidiocy can similarly magically disappear almost all disease. straight from bed to funeral parlour, now they go, and the mortician doesn't diagnose or increment e.g. flu stats

03:08 adlai "surprisingly low" macroexpands to "divergent downwards relative to confirmed cases"

03:09 adlai my hypothesis being that there are fewer stat-padding doctors -- perhaps, to be precise, mortuary employees -- in africa

03:09 asciilifeform ^

03:09 adlai whereas "mystery corpse? must've been the plague" is more common in europe & americas

03:09 asciilifeform adlai: well-coordinated lying requires 'high civilization'.

03:10 adlai my favorite lol from reading WHO reports is that only something like two thirds of the reported cases actually have the additional paperwork that the WHO requests

03:10 adlai additional paperwork ~= per corpse, doctor signs name to paper saying age and sex of corpse

03:11 adlai turns out that signatures actually do cost something!

03:11 asciilifeform adlai: the beauty of it all is that it doesn't matter worth a fuck just HOW obvious the sham is. by so much as implying that yer aware of the sham, you instantly (to mats or other fella who hasn't 'shot the policeman inside his head') placing yourself into the company of the 'martians'.

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03:11 dulapbot Logged on 2021年07月26日 12:17:50 asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-07-26#1048608 << textbook example of successfully applied discreditation spray.

03:11 asciilifeform i.e. outside of 'polite society'.

03:11 asciilifeform it's the current-day equiv. of 'mno, jet fuel dun melt steel'

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03:12 asciilifeform 'you're AGAINST SCIENCE, nutter!' etc

03:13 adlai impolite society isn't much better, tbh.

03:13 asciilifeform adlai: this is both 100% factual and constructed.

03:13 vex thank fuck we didnt get ebola

03:13 * adlai spent a while in impolite society, ended up with questions such as "what do you think about spike proteins?" and "why don't you talk to me about bitcoin!"

03:13 asciilifeform y'know WHY not better, adlai ? because folx who very much oughta know better, carry on mats-ing.

03:13 vex whats matzing?

03:14 asciilifeform i.e. have not set the bozo bit in their heads re the reich.

03:14 adlai how did mats earn this tar-and-strawmanning?

03:14 asciilifeform adlai: i disagree that 'tar and strawmanning' is happening there. but responding to this item.

03:14 dulapbot Logged on 2021年08月08日 14:30:48 mats: i distrust usg about as much as anyone else here i think, its not equivalent to denying science

03:15 * adlai has quite sparse mental model of mats ; roughly stereotypes to "N-th-generation chinese-american soldier"

03:15 vex just pay your taxes alf. no problemo

03:15 verisimilitude Let us remember not to anthropomorphize science and like things.

03:15 asciilifeform not erryone is ready to mentally check outta the reich and into the reality where 100% of the academics have to be shot before anything worth calling 'science' is again possible.

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03:16 mats good one

03:16 adlai 'soldier' might not be the most accurate stereotype, dunno how the whole soldier->reservist->veteran->headstone slope decompiles in modern ameristan.

03:16 adlai mats: when did you last wash gun oil outta your fingernails?

03:17 adlai 'gun oil' = anything that makes you want to use insecticide-grade laundry detergent instead of sweet-smelling hand soap

03:17 asciilifeform adlai: i've nuffin against mats in particular. but imho anyone who regards 'published in lancet' or 'degree from harvard' differently from 'published in graffiti in public toilet' and 'degree from pyongyang political science dept.' is in a state of sin.

03:18 verisimilitude That's unfair to the North Koreans, asciilifeform.

03:18 adlai do toilets next to the classrooms of public university campus count?

03:18 asciilifeform verisimilitude: possibly

03:18 mats multiple people in my wot have spent decades of their lives advancing cutting edge chemotherapy and oncology treatments

03:18 mats maybe that's a rounding error for you in the scheme of things but the research that happens isn't worth nothing

03:19 asciilifeform mats: lemme ask you , did any of these people spend time studying ~why~ modern man even ~needs~ oncology treatments ?

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03:19 verisimilitude I agree; only most academics should be culled.

03:19 mats that's not helpful

03:19 adlai mats: fwiw, if you object to having '-american soldier' in your stereotype, please do speak up

03:19 asciilifeform and dun say 'because lives >30y' because i'ma die of laffter and not even live to oncological age then

03:19 * adlai is simply working off the initial impression from the #b-a days

03:19 signpost I see a lot that mats didn't say here.

03:20 asciilifeform mats: yer prolly aware that asciilifeform spent some yrs in bio racket himself. (but not considers it sumthing to brag of)

03:20 signpost fauci et al are clearly lying shitbag bureaucrats. doesn't follow that there is zero work being done *anywhere*

03:21 mats there's no doubt that there's some one step forward, two steps back here -- some people are saved, many lives are ruined by the billing dept

03:21 asciilifeform signpost: work done. just, adds to 0.

03:21 asciilifeform just like in e.g. software.

03:21 asciilifeform which the folx tuned in here i suspect more familiar with.

03:21 adlai and, one of the earliest lectures -- i.e., standing uncomfortably and listening to an officer probably younger than the oldest soldier in the ranks yakking his heart out -- from basic training was on the topic of when to wear your uniform despite being on leave

03:21 asciilifeform same process. it doesn't matter if there are a whole 7 honest, talented programmers at microshit campus.

03:21 signpost yeah, the mechanism that integrates this into a society that is better off in the next frame is indeed broken.

03:21 asciilifeform (if anyffin -- they, with their efforts, ~enable~ the frauds by spraying credibility juice)

03:21 asciilifeform signpost: aha.

03:23 adlai iirc, boiled down to "if you got extra days of leave to visit a funeral, I don't care if it means you have to get even another entire day of leave because you have to change clothes twice more, you are going to the graveyard in your military uniform"

03:24 asciilifeform adlai: why wouldja ever ~not~ go in yer uniform.

03:25 adlai lol!

03:25 adlai itches, fits badly, etc

03:25 * asciilifeform always envied soldiers their uniforms -- and not because 'style victim', but because 'dun need to think what to put on'

03:25 adlai ^

03:25 vex can always wear factory blue

03:26 adlai there's much to be said for "oh, you wear custom-cooked shit from the pinnacle of fashion? well I wear bog-standard veblens engineered by three decades of younglings"

03:26 vex when it's threadbare, less likely to get spun into the lathe

03:26 verisimilitude I don't think about that anyway.

03:26 asciilifeform verisimilitude: i mean 'not at all', not even 'what's the weather?' level

03:27 verisimilitude Yes.

03:27 asciilifeform a++

03:27 adlai fwiw, this is one area where female soldiers lose, and miserably.

03:27 asciilifeform i like also the idea that no one would know anyffing at all by looking at yer clothes.

03:27 asciilifeform (unless looking at epaulettes..)

03:27 verisimilitude I once enjoyed wearing t-shirts, as a child.

03:28 asciilifeform adlai: howsthat?

03:28 adlai at least in the IDF; standard practice for them was, and probably still is, to take their veblens to a sewing machine so that they look better.

03:28 mats lol

03:28 asciilifeform adlai: this normal, even in sovok.

03:28 * adlai never heard of warrant officers issuing reports for this

03:29 asciilifeform http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-08-08#1050681 << the lizards aint 'selfharming' , they simply install judas goats to lead the children of middle class to do it.

03:29 dulapbot Logged on 2021年08月08日 14:41:03 signpost: this supposes a leadership caste that isn't filled with self-harming perverts, and probably just moves the problem of "spontaneous emergence of constructive human order" rather than solving anything.

03:29 adlai whereas it is standard practice for MPs [military police, not the drowned man!] to report men for things as stupid as "used burgundy paper as background for beret pin instead of veblen crapstick"

03:30 asciilifeform adlai: imho entirely logical.

03:30 asciilifeform whole fucking point of a uniform..

03:30 signpost asciilifeform: I disagree; they're rotting themselves as well, but wait til you get to the part of the thread where I go full-tilt hippy.

03:30 * asciilifeform still eating thrd..

03:30 * vex same

03:32 adlai asciilifeform: the fashion engineers have a nontrivial task precisely because, sometime during the decades when Israel was more socio-communist than the modern capito-oligarchy, some top brass nutcase decided that the uniforms, which are pretty much unisex, have to also look good.

03:32 asciilifeform adlai: couldn't hire hugo boss, eh

03:32 adlai lol!

03:32 vex lol

03:33 adlai that is severely anticommunist

03:33 vex howso?

03:33 * adlai is referring to the kind of decade where the words "israeli sheqel" did not beg the question, "old or new"

03:33 asciilifeform hey moar or less all modern armies copied some part of wehrmacht uniform by nao.

03:34 vex have you been to goa adlai?

03:34 adlai sprechen of dass, "All Quiet on the Western Front" actually is worth a reread, if you ever troubled to give it a first one

03:35 * adlai found it much less of a 'pageturner', although still digestible

03:35 adlai vex: no

03:35 vex i stayed in the ru quarter

03:35 adlai my main question during the reread was "so how did these idjits end up losing again"

03:36 adlai and it actually is answered, near the end, from the narrator's perspective

03:36 adlai overall the book is terrible and I don't recommend reading it even once

03:37 adlai if you must read war fiction, there are better books.

03:37 asciilifeform http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-08-08#1050740 << observe that the pov with ~0 detectable representation outside of 'these walls' is 'it's a side show combat b/w coloured shirts, while lizards swallow what was left of the unswallowed landscape'

03:37 dulapbot Logged on 2021年08月08日 16:46:27 signpost: strikes me that these threads always either say (intentional caricature) that "covid's fake" or "vaccines work (TM)"

03:37 dulapbot Logged on 2021年08月03日 15:09:20 asciilifeform: '1) start fire 2) buy errything at fire-sale price 3) profit!11'

03:38 vex asciilifeform, one huffing audit might yield sifab money

03:38 asciilifeform vex: waiwat

03:38 vex meet me in the pub

03:38 asciilifeform http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-08-08#1050744 << aha, see above. and watch the printing press.

03:38 dulapbot Logged on 2021年08月08日 16:50:42 billymg: i don't have the log line handy but asciilifeform hinted at something similar. with the reaction to covid being more a means to sow division while they run off with anything not bolted down

03:39 asciilifeform ( 'stonks' up ? == theft by lizards, from humans. )

03:39 asciilifeform approximately, at any rate.

03:39 * adlai taps out of convo ; enjoy the noise, boys!

03:40 asciilifeform and idjit peasants jump with joy when 'house went up'

03:40 vex get a tailor

03:40 asciilifeform somehow unaware that their breathing simply got moar expensive.

03:41 asciilifeform http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-08-08#1050748 << there's a very analogous community of fucktards who have similarly totem relationship w/ 'flea as in fleadom! opensores!!!' computer

03:41 dulapbot Logged on 2021年08月08日 16:58:24 billymg: speaking of the cowards at the top, it amazes me that in right wing circles online the discussion of what to do about them only ever revolves around "muh guns" and never around my computer and os

03:41 asciilifeform they simply wear diff colour shirt

03:41 asciilifeform ( or didja think the 'red shirts' have something other than totem relationship w/ their arms ? )

03:42 asciilifeform # of lizards shot , to date, i'ma remind, is -- afaik -- 0.

03:42 asciilifeform it'd seem that bullets oughta work on'em. but afaik not empirically tested.

03:43 asciilifeform http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-08-08#1050761 << this, incidentally, does not always have the stereotypically expected effect.

03:43 dulapbot Logged on 2021年08月08日 17:21:55 signpost: "let's see how unattached you are with a car battery attached to your nuts" etc., and sure, the machine cries out, but what does this prove?

03:43 asciilifeform some folx live for that moment.

03:43 asciilifeform http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-08-08#1050766 << very similarly !

03:43 dulapbot Logged on 2021年08月08日 17:34:07 verisimilitude: I vaguely remember my disappointment at realizing this so-called pandemic was fake, and not something which would kill hundreds of millions, perhaps leaving more room for me.

03:45 asciilifeform http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-08-08#1050770 << there's a proliferation of 'choke on own snot from swallowing peanut' and similar allergists in usa. often enuff vaccine (surprise? whole point to stimulate immune reaction..) sets off.

03:45 dulapbot Logged on 2021年08月08日 18:21:23 whaack: i met a surfer-nurse five days ago, he claimed ~ 'i am not right wing, but i have given the vaccine shots to many, and it is not too rare that we shortly after have to rush the person to the ICU, I'm not vaccinated and I wouldn't risk it myself, lots of nurses agree and have fake CDC "i has the vax" cards, i believe what happens is that soon to be vaccine recipients come in with a lil covid that

03:46 vex like i said. tuff as fuck

03:46 asciilifeform place where i got it, had epinephrin syringes ready to go next to the vax one

03:46 asciilifeform and the pack visibly wasn't full

03:46 vex you had the mrna?

03:46 signpost did I tell the tale of my dick surgery in the logs?

03:46 vex whaa?

03:46 signpost pretty close to car battery!

03:47 vex sp. tell

03:47 * signpost will summarize, was cackling at the discomfort of the male surgeons the entire time.

03:47 vex dick surgery?

03:47 signpost vex: sometimes ya rip the thing.

03:47 asciilifeform vex: aha

03:47 vex what?

03:48 signpost vex: could you perhaps put these on the same line?

03:48 vex theres's no female dick surgeons?

03:48 vex soz mate, i get my ideas in fits

03:49 asciilifeform http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-08-08#1050789 << i dun do shitcoins, vex ; contact shinohai , iirc specializes in rape of shitcoin aficionados, may be able to help

03:49 dulapbot Logged on 2021年08月08日 20:04:32 vex: asciilifeform, if you want some huffchain coin to play with, could prolly list some of those cool xrays in the art markets

03:49 signpost anyhow, in response to "living for that moment". perhaps the famous monk was in ecstasy as he burned.

03:49 signpost or at least having a chuckle.

03:50 asciilifeform signpost: entirely possible.

03:50 vex i'm sure shinohai would never be so presumtuous to invite you to the party asciilfeform

03:51 asciilifeform vex: not errybody needs to be present at erry party.

03:51 asciilifeform or life would not be so interesting.

03:51 vex true enough. i feel like you might be able to audit stuff that hast been audited yet

03:52 asciilifeform vex: asciilifeform audits two types of objects. 1) where someone pays -- and serious, not children's, dough -- on the barrel head. 2) where asciilifeform has 'skin in game'.

03:52 vex forgeddaboutit

03:53 * asciilifeform aint about to put 'skin in game' in any shitcoin, at any point, under any pretext.

03:53 asciilifeform which leaves (1), theoretically.

03:53 vex you don't need skin in it

03:53 asciilifeform right, vex, one can also be (3) somebody with 'infinite' free time that's worth ~0

03:53 asciilifeform but not applicable here.

03:54 vex noted extreme

03:56 asciilifeform http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-08-08#1050800 << performance dope aficionados -- unless ~uncommonly~ disciplined -- get nailed by tolerance buildup.

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03:56 dulapbot Logged on 2021年08月08日 21:00:43 adlai: either way I doubt my problems in life are as easily fixed as "here, take this one pill before you begin studying, and you'll feel as though you had a solid night's sleep"

03:56 dulapbot (trilema) 2016年12月01日 asciilifeform: which is why i said to laddel 'dope requires discipline', because a lone programmer in a cellar is both general and soldier

03:56 asciilifeform go figure, somehow erryone seems to agree that e.g. table saw requires skill, discipline, to use.

03:56 asciilifeform lathe, backhoe, similarly

03:57 vex poor fuck is prolly chained to some cartel mechanism

03:57 asciilifeform but much moar powerful tool that backhoes ~yer brain~ somehow, they think -- not!

03:57 asciilifeform it's a tool, yes, not a devil.

03:57 asciilifeform but you aint born knowing how to use it.

03:58 asciilifeform http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-08-08#1050839 << i've said, imho, very little to date other than to elaborate on the abundantly obvious.

03:58 dulapbot Logged on 2021年08月08日 21:22:29 adlai: upon this rock I shall build my example: let's say your software is a book explaining what stan means by each of the sane laws of computing, except loper-os.org has been tarred, burned, and censored, and all that remains is commentaries by the fan club.

03:58 verisimilitude Watching others suffer is amusing.

03:58 asciilifeform verisimilitude: only if novel.

03:59 verisimilitude The people who buy ``bingle token'' or whatever don't understand what they do.

03:59 asciilifeform i can tell, verisimilitude , that you also agree, otherwise would still be burning ants w/ magnifying glass, rather than tuned in here.

03:59 verisimilitude I've never done that.

03:59 asciilifeform then even more quickly bored than asciilifeform evidently.

03:59 verisimilitude I enjoy watching them inflict it themselves.

03:59 asciilifeform for asciilifeform , 9001st ant ~= 9000th. and similarly shitcoin user etc

04:00 asciilifeform because asciilifeform is the type who gets bored quickly.

04:00 verisimilitude They don't even know what cryptocurrency is.

04:00 verisimilitude Yet, they dump their life savings into one.

04:00 asciilifeform verisimilitude: all 100 $ of it, lolyes

04:01 * asciilifeform recalls the various redditisms mp linked, 'i lost mah lifesavings!111' 'how much' '500$'

04:01 verisimilitude How amusing.

04:01 asciilifeform http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-08-08#1050862 << asciilifeform admits that he's at a loss re wai adlai wants to reopen that wound and aint satisfied w/ 'tex'

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04:01 dulapbot Logged on 2021年08月08日 21:39:46 adlai: e.g., "do not typeset mathematics"

04:04 * asciilifeform will bbl.

04:06 vex https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=liUcUslP96o

04:23 vex https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Anq9_23klx4 when mcafee quit, he left his pet a mechanism that worked

04:35 vex https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D1I1x2pYMK0

04:39 vex https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l0zaebtU-CA

04:43 vex https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=45cYwDMibGo

05:25 vex https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qq09UkPRdFY

05:31 verisimilitude Does scoopbot know me?

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05:37 signpost verisimilitude: I'm about to go to bed, but did you ever pick up whitaker's words?

05:37 signpost seems like it would be of interest to you.

05:42 vex whois whitaker

05:43 verisimilitude Yes.

05:44 signpost iirc an air force d00d that wrote himself a latin parser.

05:44 signpost good then, goodnight.

05:44 vex cool

05:46 vex https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CgEspBGvRQA

05:53 verisimilitude My plans need no parser, amusingly.

05:57 verisimilitude Oh no: https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-02134-0

05:57 verisimilitude Reading papers before publishing them is too damn hard.

06:09 punkman http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-08-08#1051089 << a tough place to be. sometimes I end up in this "current science is shit" conversation, especially after a few drinks. I don't think I've convinced anyoned, but I can see some people getting scared if I manage a few good points

06:09 dulapbot Logged on 2021年08月08日 23:11:06 asciilifeform: not erryone is ready to mentally check outta the reich and into the reality where 100% of the academics have to be shot before anything worth calling 'science' is again possible.

06:11 punkman Ioannidis reproducibility paper is a good starting point for the uninitiated

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06:14 punkman re:medicine, I've long come to the conclusion that most doctors are not particularly smart, and they give zero fucks about updating their learnings.

06:22 punkman easier to arrive at above, when you go to dozen doctors, do all the tests, and best diagnosis you get is "idiopathic pain"/"are you sure you are not imagining it?"

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06:41 punkman still, I hope not all avenues of inquiry are as plagued as medicine/psychiatry/computer-science. I wonder how bad could the literature be, say in "metallurgy".

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06:51 punkman feeling a sort of reverse Gell-Mann Amnesia effect. why should I expect "metallurgy" not be full of bozos?

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10:19 punkman http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-08-08#1050664 << good example of "didn't find out, after all". what did we "find out later" about 9/11? even talking about it 20 years later, sort of makes you a weirdo

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10:19 dulapbot Logged on 2021年08月08日 14:19:34 punkman: there's a lot of "will found out later" going around, kinda worried we actually won't "find out later" for a lot of it

10:19 dulapbot Logged on 2021年08月08日 23:07:39 asciilifeform: it's the current-day equiv. of 'mno, jet fuel dun melt steel'

10:20 punkman and I fully expect the "war on respiratory virii" to go about as well as the "war on terror"

10:41 punkman http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-08-09#1051273 << the paper, should be mandatory reading for anyone involved in research

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10:41 dulapbot Logged on 2021年08月09日 02:06:48 punkman: Ioannidis reproducibility paper is a good starting point for the uninitiated

13:33 PeterL http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-08-09#1051259 << I had assumed that all RSS feeds would be listed with the newsest items first, but it looks like yours is listed the other way around?

13:33 dulapbot Logged on 2021年08月09日 01:27:12 verisimilitude: Does scoopbot know me?

13:39 PeterL so yes, it is looking at http://verisimilitudes.net/rss.xml but the first thing listed is from last January

16:08 adlai http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-08-08#1051250 << well, I diversify my reading to minimize 'coyote treads air off cliff' phenomenon in case some 21st-century grothendieck burns down the house of bourbaki; and this has led me to wading in parallel through a bunch of texts

16:08 dulapbot Logged on 2021年08月08日 23:57:39 asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-08-08#1050862 << asciilifeform admits that he's at a loss re wai adlai wants to reopen that wound and aint satisfied w/ 'tex'

16:11 adlai my reactions, in roughly chronological order: gallian, writing in english words and numbers: good;

16:11 adlai munkres, writing in english and simple line diagrams: good;

16:12 adlai ... translator's butchery of vinogradov, apparently typeset by mechanical means: cto za tex!?

16:14 adlai so, my puerile sadism in the specific case of 'typeset mathematics' boils down to, in response to alf's response to mp's "why hieroglyphs?", that mathematics's complexity deserves hieroglyphs, is that the hieroglyphs don't actually reduce any complexity. they only hide it.

16:17 * adlai encountered another megab00k on topology that the author gives away for free, in warez form on his site ; and was quite amused to read, in the frontmatters, that the author writes in raw tex for precision of hieroglyph locations.

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16:18 adlai fwiw, while I have not ever sent anything in for publication, and submitted almost no homework to the mathematics department in my semester there, I did actually typeset my QM homework

16:19 * adlai even has physical copy of 'texbook' !

16:22 adlai http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-08-09#1051277 << there are socially-styled meritocracies (e.g. medicine, Your Honor, etc), and there are "fuck up and die" professions

16:22 dulapbot Logged on 2021年08月09日 02:46:42 punkman: feeling a sort of reverse Gell-Mann Amnesia effect. why should I expect "metallurgy" not be full of bozos?

16:23 adlai now, editor of a 5Kg monograph on metallurgy, whose work primarily consisted of farming out peer review to professors specializing in each different niche -- sure, might be a glorified secretary

16:27 adlai http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-08-09#1051282 << ty for link; my previous reading on this general topic was a little booklet titled "The Overproduction of Truth"

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16:27 dulapbot Logged on 2021年08月09日 06:36:56 punkman: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-08-09#1051273 << the paper, should be mandatory reading for anyone involved in research

16:31 punkman adlai: another classic for you https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC300808/

16:34 adlai [ http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-08-09#1051299 >> already located in the library of babylon! http://libgen.is/book/index.php?md5=71F05654B2DDF9F4C7F4E6FCBF9ECD2A ]

16:34 dulapbot Logged on 2021年08月09日 12:23:06 adlai: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-08-09#1051282 << ty for link; my previous reading on this general topic was a little booklet titled "The Overproduction of Truth"

16:36 adlai the journal.plos.org article webpage is a bit of a rabbithole... has its own comment section!

16:36 punkman heh, gov/isp is blocking that domain

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16:37 adlai typo; journals.plos.org

16:37 * adlai is referring to the previous link

16:39 punkman https://z-lib.org/ finds unblocked domain for you, in case anyone needs

16:39 adlai rofl 'gravitational challenge'

16:39 adlai it's not the phree fall that kills you, it's the sudden newtonian bill at the end

16:40 asciilifeform punkman: dun seem to load here

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16:42 adlai "/pmc/articles/PMC300808/" path goes to nifty HTML5 web viewer, 'Pubreader' ; luddites might prefer https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC300808/pdf/32701459.pdf

16:42 thestringpuller billymg: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-08-06#1050543 << they make it sound this way; all this does is increase crime for in person cash transactions

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16:42 dulapbot Logged on 2021年08月06日 13:14:27 billymg: thestringpuller: the infrastructure bill will require a TRB V patch that implements KYC/AML data collection upon initial startup of your node (to be stored with ClearPassIDTM). if you don't comply apple will "find" illegal photos on your phone and an Amazon Community SafetyTM drone (with taser attachment) will be sent to your location

16:45 adlai fwiw, it's cool that the authors of the parachute meta-study managed to get a negative result published

16:47 thestringpuller mats: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-08-06#1050546 << i don't even think they are trying to hide the artificial floors on things like cryptopunks and bored apes; they've gone full ponzi with the guise of collectibles.

16:47 dulapbot Logged on 2021年08月06日 17:02:04 mats: hopefully nfts get regulated and there are knock on effects for the broader art industry

16:48 thestringpuller this exact thing happened in the 90s with comics, Stan Lee issues of spider-man were selling for 200x original price, and with Marvel being bankrupt over printed the comics and created this weird "tulip mania" within comics from 1992-2006;

16:54 asciilifeform http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-08-09#1051311 << ~now~ worx, go figure. by all indications, ddos

16:54 dulapbot Logged on 2021年08月09日 12:36:20 asciilifeform: punkman: dun seem to load here

16:55 asciilifeform http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-08-09#1051275 << ~= priests.

16:55 dulapbot Logged on 2021年08月09日 02:18:10 punkman: easier to arrive at above, when you go to dozen doctors, do all the tests, and best diagnosis you get is "idiopathic pain"/"are you sure you are not imagining it?"

16:55 asciilifeform http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-08-09#1051276 << recent bridge & other structure collapses suggest that the pattern holds there.

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16:55 dulapbot Logged on 2021年08月09日 02:37:40 punkman: still, I hope not all avenues of inquiry are as plagued as medicine/psychiatry/computer-science. I wonder how bad could the literature be, say in "metallurgy".

16:56 asciilifeform unsurprisingly.

16:57 asciilifeform http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-08-09#1051278 << the known-even-to-rubes traditional example in usa is the death of kennedy.

16:57 dulapbot Logged on 2021年08月09日 06:14:47 punkman: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-08-08#1050664 << good example of "didn't find out, after all". what did we "find out later" about 9/11? even talking about it 20 years later, sort of makes you a weirdo

16:58 asciilifeform the ~original~ '9/11', where the Official truth wasn't even trying very hard to hold water, and anyone questioning written off immediately as 'nutter' and consequently banned from 'respectable' sphere

17:01 thimbronion Relatedly I'm "reading" a biography of Dulles at the moment.

17:02 asciilifeform in sovok at the time , already there was an established meme of 'вялотекущая шизофрения' ('sluggish schizophrenia') : convenient diagnosis for packing dissenters off to asylum. in usa lizards decided they needed an analogous item. hence now can go and read about 'conspiratorial thinking' and the 'mental disorders' which cause it etc

17:02 dulapbot (trilema) 2014年11月12日 mircea_popescu: the "body of human science" understood as "the government employees paid to derp on a topic" enacted "slow moving schizophrenia" as a thing.

17:06 thimbronion It's entertaining to read this from the perspective of a nazi-hating libertard. Dulles is framed as being a bad guy because he tried to work with the Nazis before/after the end of the war.

17:07 thimbronion Meanwhile commie state dept. employees collaborating with the SU are just free spirits that got caught up in the times.

17:08 asciilifeform thimbronion: that ~all~ of these served lizards, faithfully, is somehow lost on folx.

17:08 asciilifeform ( why e.g. h. ford built factories in su ? profitable. )

17:10 asciilifeform thimbronion: dulles for his part was working for same folx who had commissioned and funded hitler to begin with.

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17:11 thimbronion asciilifeform: any thoughts on Nuremburg? Greatest fraud of all time? Legit? Somewhere in between?

17:11 thimbronion asciilifeform: Oh yeah. Started out as a Wall St. lawyer.

17:12 asciilifeform thimbronion: fraud from virtually any possible pov.

17:12 asciilifeform and in fact foundational event in the creation of the current reich.

17:12 thimbronion Obscene to think of the Dresden/A-bombers prosecuting the Nazis for war crimes.

17:13 thimbronion As if there could be such a thing as a war crime.

17:14 thimbronion It makes a mockery of the judicial system.

17:16 asciilifeform thimbronion: imho is important to remember that totalitarianism won the war, and in fact 'won' the century, for what imho were fundamental civilizational-stage reasons.

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17:16 dulapbot (trilema) 2015年05月04日 ascii_field: 'I remember saying once to Arthur Koestler, ‘History stopped in 1936’, at which he nodded in immediate understanding. We were both thinking of totalitarianism in general, but more particularly of the Spanish civil war. Early in life I have noticed that no event is ever correctly reported in a newspaper, but in Spain, for the first time, I saw newspaper reports which did not bear any relation to the facts, not eve

17:16 dulapbot Logged on 2021年05月24日 16:57:15 asciilifeform: the totalitarian philosophy (yes) is that 'the natural human bottom-up norms suck, let's force new ones by royal decree and enforce with ubiquitous surveillance, snitch culture, and draconian punishments' approx.

17:16 dulapbot Logged on 2021年05月24日 17:10:43 asciilifeform: a more compact statement of the key idea, for impatient folx, is in orwell's 'you and the atomic bomb'.

17:16 punkman http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-08-09#1051323 << aren't these usually old and unmaintained bridges though? not much of metallurgy issue

17:16 dulapbot Logged on 2021年08月09日 12:51:36 asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-08-09#1051276 << recent bridge & other structure collapses suggest that the pattern holds there.

17:18 asciilifeform punkman: not always.

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17:19 mats i don't think there were any failures of engineering per se, but contractors taking shortcuts and corruption

17:19 punkman the recent Arecibo collapse was a fun one.

17:19 asciilifeform mats: i won't pretend to know for certain. but not inclined to believe any or all aspects of the Official troof.

17:19 mats the usual problems that plague american infrastructure projects

17:20 mats big dig, second ave extension, california hsr, etc... massive budget overruns, years long delays, dozens of no-show jobs to pay stooges

17:22 asciilifeform mats: structures collapsing ~2y after construction is something i associate with the time of hammurabi ( 'If a builder builds a house for a man and does not make its construction sound, and the house which he has built collapses and causes the death of the owner of the house, the builder shall be put to death...' ) than current day

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17:23 mats i like the 'if you water down the beer, its the funeral pyre for you' provision

17:24 asciilifeform imho a very sane, reasonable document as a whole.

17:29 mats i expect lots of the people involved at the top are already in their 50s and 60s, and if they build a structure meant to last 50 years with shortcuts that result in collapse at 20, there's no practical consequences

17:30 mats the clever ones have already redistributed their wealth to family, and in the west, there's no punishing the son for sins of the father

17:30 asciilifeform mats: there's a key term in ru ( orlov tried to translate as 'enpoorment' )

17:30 dulapbot (trilema) 2015年03月19日 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: usa has no 'austerity way' but does have the inevitable убеднение (orlov tried to introduce the term to engl., but it has no good ready translation)

17:31 asciilifeform where lizards slowly 'boiling the frog' to wind down the plebes' expectations in life to correspond to the meager crumbs they are to be given.

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17:32 asciilifeform going with this, i fully expect that 'sudden' structural collapses of public buildings will be slowly 'normalized' in the reich.

17:32 asciilifeform 'was bad luck!'

17:32 asciilifeform 'could not be helped!'

17:32 mats in my wot there's a guy who embezzled low seven digits from a nonprofit org for a decade, raised three kids and some grandkids with the money, a dozen time shares and luxury cars etc... he got pinned up recently and will only do four years in club fed -- and almost certainly less due old age and infirmities like declining eyesight etc

17:33 mats kids went to ivies on that money, feds only clawed back a buncha houses he bought with the bezzle, he basically got away with the crime

17:34 asciilifeform mats: aha, and then 'bleeding heart' morons in usa stare with dropped jaws when in e.g. cn corrupt officials had their families beheaded next to them

17:34 mats kushner style theft

17:34 asciilifeform simple formula : benefited? -> accomplice.

17:34 asciilifeform in ru ~100% of bribe-taking officials have their mansions, rolls royces, etc. written in a wife's/brother's/etc name

17:36 asciilifeform mats: re: the embezzler -- important to realize that if he was the 'correct' type, then in reich he dun really count as a thief. (and fat chance that he would have been put in charge of such a fund if were ~not~ the Right Type)

17:36 asciilifeform so in fact it was peccadillo.

17:36 asciilifeform hence the light punishment.

17:36 mats whats funny is that the entire scheme rested on a slightly different org name, he conned the money from a rich idiot trying to donate to the org

17:37 mats all of this was done in the public eye, visible for anyone who wanted to look

17:37 asciilifeform now otoh if you or i caught e.g. running a gox 'without a license' -- 20 to life !

17:37 asciilifeform in all reichs, the only real crime is to impinge on the prerogatives of the great inca.

17:37 asciilifeform plebe usurpers -- beheaded.

17:38 mats a good personal reminder that money spent unseen and at great distances is a real liability

17:38 asciilifeform mats: reich 'charity orgs' are a combo of chump moneys collector and laundry for elite.

17:38 asciilifeform (incl. 'merit washing' of offspring)

17:43 mats his son is a real piece of work, has a promising future as a joshua kushner

17:44 asciilifeform http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-08-09#1051293 << if you recall, d.knuth on many occasions stated that this was the whole fucking point! of tex. (i.e. so that author can be own typesetter, and not 'play broken telephone' with graphics folx who don't know shit from shinola in mathematics)

17:44 dulapbot Logged on 2021年08月09日 12:13:11 adlai: encountered another megab00k on topology that the author gives away for free, in warez form on his site ; and was quite amused to read, in the frontmatters, that the author writes in raw tex for precision of hieroglyph locations.

17:44 mats and maybe a jared, in 30 years

17:44 asciilifeform mats: surely.

17:46 asciilifeform http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-08-09#1051313 << lizards make no secret of their intention to eventually abolish paper money. ( but for various reasons not done, quite yet, it is a useful 'unprincipled exception' in various places )

17:46 dulapbot Logged on 2021年08月09日 12:38:12 thestringpuller: billymg: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-08-06#1050543 << they make it sound this way; all this does is increase crime for in person cash transactions

17:47 mats its a hard sell in the us, like a quarter of the population is un- or underbanked

17:48 asciilifeform mats: gotta luvv this term. sorta like when in 20y it becomes expected to have a usg camera in yer bathroom, folx w/out one will be called 'undercameraed'

17:48 mats maybe usps offices will return to being nexuses of commerce once the e-dollar materializes

17:49 asciilifeform mats: i might've previously posed this q, but, what precisely is the diff b/w this hypothetical 'e-dollar' and the usual ach/wire/visa/paypalism we already have ?

17:49 mats settlement speed

17:50 asciilifeform i.e. slow an' painful, like a shitcoin ?

17:50 mats e-dollar will be faster settlement, i.e. finality, where what we've largely got now gets batched up and takes days to clear

17:51 mats minor addition, usg has been rolling out real time payments (RTP) protocol, seen in venmo/paypal etc with 1% rakes

17:54 mats just checked, fee is now 0.5% capped at 15ドル per tx

17:54 asciilifeform mats: visa takes what, 10s to clear ?

17:54 asciilifeform why to rebuild visa ?

17:55 mats https://www.differencebetween.com/difference-between-clearing-and-vs-settlement

17:55 mats and for blockchains, https://medium.com/@nic__carter/its-the-settlement-assurances-stupid-5dcd1c3f4e41

17:57 scoopbot New post on A Syndication of Verisimilitudes: The Earliest English Elision Dictionary

17:57 asciilifeform mats: it still aint clear to me why (aside from straight misdirection-via-names fraud) the fiatists want to bake permissioned shitcoins (and call e.g. 'e-dollar') vs. simply building a variant of visa w/out chargebacks. (as for instance already exists in 'swift')

17:58 mats increasing velocity of money/trade settlement is a big deal and a long time coming, probably spurred on by chinese innovation in the space: wechat pay, alipay leapt right over the credit card system

17:58 asciilifeform mats: they're 'innovations' the way 19th c. 'patent medicines' were innovations in pharma.

17:58 asciilifeform or the umpteenth gox 'innovation in bitcoin' etc

17:59 punkman read something along these lines recently: "underbanked is an archaic term these days, the growing demographic is the formerly-banked"

18:01 mats there's no "vs", it amounts to the same thing with more features

18:01 mats the specific kind of features useful to central planners

18:02 asciilifeform mats: i regard the use of 'cryptocoin' verbiage and eschafaudage in these schemes as a theft.

18:02 asciilifeform they're simply paypals.

18:03 asciilifeform lulzy piece from www mats linked where derp proposes , without mincing words, ethertardization of bitcoin and Official miner reich, with rollbacks etc

18:03 asciilifeform 'Previous hashers will be granted conditional amnesty if they agree to fully comply with the SRO’s mandates on an ongoing basis, subject to a probationary period' and other lulz. rec to read whole thing.

18:03 asciilifeform prepare bucket for barf.

18:04 mats his career has been in fiat banking, he's still unlearning some of those habits

18:04 punkman https://www.paypal.com/us/webapps/mpp/crypto "Crypto for the people"!

18:04 asciilifeform mats: reads a little like an apr 1 piece. but not apr1

18:04 mats 'dave is a lawyer, but we won't hold that against him' kind of thing

18:05 punkman "Checking out with crypto is a taxable transaction

18:05 punkman - Because it’s an asset, it will first be sold whenever you checkout with crypto and the cash will be used to pay the merchant. You have to report any gains or losses on the crypto sale on your taxes. PayPal will provide necessary 1099 forms when you sell cryptocurrency."

18:06 mats you laugh, but probably three nines of adopters in the last ten years don't want to have anything to do with being their own custodian

18:07 mats and i don't really blame them, its not easy or obvious

18:10 asciilifeform punkman: see also lol.

18:10 dulapbot Logged on 2021年05月24日 13:00:39 asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-05-23#1037440 << reminds me of the czech tale where the princess asks about a suitor : 'is he young?' 'nope, he's old' 'is he at least kind?' 'no, he's the meanest old man alive' 'old and mean! ain't he the ideal groom!'

18:10 asciilifeform 'does it let you spend btc w/out giving 50% to usg?' 'fuck no, lol, what have you been smoking' ... 'does it give better exch rate than gox, at least?' 'mno, wtf' ...

18:11 mats yeah, the spread is ridiculous

18:11 signpost goes back to the farming thread; folks are wired to be farmed thus.

18:12 asciilifeform mats: i defo grasp that there's 1e7 halfwits who think they want to 'use bitcoin' (whatever they imagine it to be) but don't want to figure out scary complicated things like, ohnoez, installing a noad

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18:12 asciilifeform for these, there will always be a gox to 'part fool from his money'

18:12 mats well, there's plenty of discussion in the logs about how shit bitcoin is

18:12 asciilifeform because the 'gnarly, scary' work aint actually optional

18:12 mats so empathy is possible, in theory

18:13 asciilifeform mats: even supposing the proggy were 100% bug-free and reliable. fundamentally the folx who are not ready to hold own keys , without a usg escrow -- cattle.

18:13 signpost isn't even so bad. them holding pseudobtc is marginally better than them holding usd.

18:14 asciilifeform signpost: not sure that i agree. at least when you hold usd at a usg.bank, you know what yer signing up for

18:14 signpost not for them. I don't see any harm, and some possible benefit to this enriching Brian Armstrong, who I'd be shocked if isn't accumulating the real thing.

18:14 asciilifeform whereas a gox.holder may be under the notion that he has coin, that it cannot be taken away, or suddenly evaporate, etc

18:14 mats armstrong is a tool afaict

18:14 signpost been calling coinbase a gox for quite some time. it still stands.

18:15 asciilifeform signpost: very difficult to know who 'holds actual coin' unless you know him personally and ~very~ close friend..

18:16 signpost if/when usd dies, perhaps it'll be more apparent.

18:16 mats but definitely very good for thiel, armstrong, bankman-fried, winklevii, all the other would-be jack mas of the west

18:17 mats biden/usg doesn't have the juice to step on them like beijing stepped on alibaba and tencent

18:19 asciilifeform mats: bitcoinism does not, as i understand, make nearly as much difference for oligarch as for human. oligarch even prior to bitcoin was able to buy picassos, etc. which behaved quite similarly to bitcoin in re inflation-shield

18:19 dulapbot (trilema) 2015年03月22日 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: castles and drawings by picasso are not fungible << i'd argue that picassos are more or less 'analogue bitcoin' for the ultra-bezzlerich. hence my interest in the linked turd

18:19 mats picassos require sovereigns with guns to defend freeports

18:19 signpost it wont elevate them, but it's something to hold onto if the others fall.

18:20 mats the endless work of ICIJ has shown even many of those sovereigns are actually subordinate, like tribal reservations in the us

18:20 signpost I imagine being close to the oil machine wasn't a bad thing for RU oligarchs post-91?

18:20 asciilifeform mats: the oligarchs, approximately, ~are~ said sovereigns.

18:21 mats i don't imagine putin, david cameron's father, other oligarchs, were very pleased to see their books splayed out for all to see

18:21 asciilifeform mats: consider, tho, how much diff. it makes to'em ?

18:22 asciilifeform what would it do for mats to have direct access to 'putin's books' ?

18:22 mats it matters to putin at least, can't be out there showing off multi billion dollar estates and offshored bank accounts while many russians live in the mud

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18:23 mats also apparently matters to beijing, which has spent the last year successfully muscling chinese corporate elites into making billions of dollars worth of donations for the perceived public good

18:24 asciilifeform mats: you'd be surprised at what openly appears in ru tabloids. ~all about (of various authenticity' 'putin's yacht', 'putin's bunker', etc.

18:24 asciilifeform these -- largely fictional; but those of his viziers -- rather well-flaunted

18:24 mats management of public perception of wealth inequality isn't worth 0, even if you and i can't discernably tell how it moves the plebe rage needle

18:25 asciilifeform mats: it strikes me as possible that cn is trying to copy usg reich's 'charity' scheme

18:25 asciilifeform (i.e. 'publicly-innocuous' meritwash sinecures for offspring and de-jure 'given away' but de-facto inherited fortunes )

18:26 mats maybe

18:29 punkman related to "very difficult to know who 'holds actual coin'", lots (most?) of the top addresses aren't moving and owner is unknown

18:29 dulapbot Logged on 2021年07月31日 18:18:58 punkman: https://bitinfocharts.com/top-100-richest-bitcoin-addresses.html

18:30 mats hard to tell whether china is progressing, if at all, on implementation of rule of law, rather than rule by men, which would enable these structures

18:31 asciilifeform mats: do you seriously believe in the religion of 'rule of law' ?

18:31 dulapbot Logged on 2020年02月16日 05:04:41 asciilifeform: d00dz were fapping to 'rule of law', so i linked'em to the canonical likbez. this proved too large a stone to swallow .

18:31 mats i think its on a continuum, and that it still exists in some places, yeah

18:32 asciilifeform mats: i suspect that the item folx erroneously refer to as 'rule of law' is simply political stability/predictability.

18:32 mats legal and political stability/predictability is crucial to commerce

18:33 asciilifeform somehow the old silk road managed w/out

18:33 mats its what made hk the gateway into china, dependable commercial courts

18:33 asciilifeform merchants were accustomed to all kinds of seemingly 'intolerable', e.g. highway robberies

18:33 asciilifeform mats: i thought it was euro gunship-diplomacy

18:33 asciilifeform i.e. extraterritorial courts

18:33 mats for the same reason why delaware is so important

18:34 mats decades of established precedent, competent magistrates, efficient and speedy proceedings largely free of political intervention

18:34 asciilifeform mats: not aware that much other than corp regs takes place in delaware. ( asciilifeform regularly goes there, it's a mournful shithole )

18:34 mats the silk road managed without because of the great riches available, but cash and carry is undeniably high friction

18:35 mats reliable courts in stable jurisdictions enables, among many other things, creation of credit that greases commerce

18:36 asciilifeform mats: right, but it's a ~visible~ friction. whereas in a jurisdiction like hk, you don't get to see all the people who simply don't get to participate because 'did not choose their parents carefully'. that stability and 'history of precedents' has its down sides.

18:36 dulapbot (trilema) 2015年03月05日 mircea_popescu: if you are one of the people buying belgian rubber concessions on the stock exchanges, you make money. if you're in africa, you make quick with the hands and feet.

18:36 dulapbot (trilema) 2015年08月22日 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: consider, http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=06-03-2015#1044114 - ergo, 'this vermeer, in the gallery of our esteemed lord rothchild, is genuine. this picasso, in the suitcase of this ragged thief and scoundrel, is most certainly questionable.'

18:37 asciilifeform is rather analogous to children's game 'musical chairs'.

18:37 mats not like any idiot with a horse and cart could participate in the silk road anyway

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18:37 asciilifeform if yer in a chair -- no, let's not have anymoar music.

18:38 asciilifeform mats: idiot maybe not, but if you could muster a caravan, did not have to get permission from anyone in particular to play.

18:38 asciilifeform nor be 'of right family'

18:39 mats any decent sized commerce requires credit, food, pack animals, men, arms, relationships with trustworthy merchants and brokers

18:39 asciilifeform mats: surely.

18:39 mats this amounts to 'right family' with some small margin of error

18:40 * asciilifeform not claiming that 'any beggar could'. but that there's important diff b/w 'stability' of today's moribund inca empire, and life of ancient merchants

18:40 asciilifeform where sometimes merchant could alternate roles even with brigand.

18:42 mats i don't especially see the appeal of the latter

18:43 asciilifeform mats: fwiw asciilifeform suspects it's a factory jumper setting and generally not changes during life

18:43 mats in some corners of the world, we do see that, with physical (naval) piracy, and virtual (former sov state sanctioned) piracy

18:43 asciilifeform how you see pirate depends much on who you identify with, pirate? or victim ?

18:43 asciilifeform what side of the 'stability' knife you fall on.

18:43 mats ok, privateer, whatever you like stan

18:44 asciilifeform mats: not aware of privateers in the 17th c sense having made comeback yet

18:44 asciilifeform ( have they ? )

18:44 asciilifeform 'a letter of marque came from the king, for the scummiest vessel i've ever seen...'(tm)(r)

18:45 mats what about all the russian speaking artists, probably led by moonlighting fsb officers, who've been making runs at western electronic systems?

18:46 asciilifeform mostly (tho not entirely) fictions created by reich 'seekoority experts' to justify 1) net totalitarianisms 2) gigabux into 'security biz'

18:46 asciilifeform see e.g. krebs.

18:46 asciilifeform mandatory reading: On the Matter of Brian Krebs..

18:48 mats i understand attribution is difficult, but the fourteen eyes still have a unique, panopticon view of the planetary network

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18:48 asciilifeform mats: observe that it wasn't putin & co which gave us mswin & the associated ecosystem of liquishitware

18:48 asciilifeform or for that matter poetteringware, chromism, etc

18:49 mats i don't buy this "mostly", or even "majority" assignment to the fiction

18:49 asciilifeform all of these collectively constitute the ~real~ 'cyberattack'.

18:49 mats its asymmetrically effective, of course moscow would do it

18:49 asciilifeform mats: unless you actually sit in the throne room of the 'eyes', you (or i for that matter) have no reliable info re their doings other than what they (and their hangouts, e.g. snowden pseudoleak) choose to feed to the public.

18:50 mats sure

18:51 asciilifeform btw of course moscow employs mswin rootkit artists, vuln diggers, etc. -- as does erry major crown. but they work at considerable disadvantage vs usg's, after all microshit, the pki hucksters, 'responsible' vuln reportage houses, etc. are in usa, not in ru.

18:52 asciilifeform imho it is rather like when su built a ruinously expensive copy of usg 'space shuttle'. (incidentally the roof in the 'indiajones warehouse' housing this artifact, recently caved in, burying the machine + a janitor..)

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18:52 asciilifeform gorby assumed 'if usa built -- must be useful'

18:53 asciilifeform (or, by some accounts, the order to do so was simply relayed through his cia stooge lips w/out thinking)

18:54 asciilifeform usg traditionally quite good at this technique -- get opponent into a pyramid-building pissing contest

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18:54 mats well, there is the benefit of de facto letters of marque by belarusian, russian, moldovan etc authorities that enable them to hit western targets without threat of police or military action

18:54 asciilifeform iirc cn was coaxed into starting construction of aircraft carriers, for instance ( mats might be able to find where this went? )

18:55 mats all i know is the retrofits of russian shitcakes, the liaoning or whatevers

18:55 asciilifeform mats: lemme ask, do you suppose e.g. the blacks of bmore 'red zone' streets have 'letter of marque' from usg , to do their robberies & arsons ?

18:55 asciilifeform or simply tolerated because whynot

18:56 mats er, soviet cakes, i guess

18:56 asciilifeform right, iirc they started with a junkyard one from late su

18:57 mats baltimore street gangs have intl dope connections, but its not the same thing, nobody's apparently sending soldiers to hit mexican gas pipelines

18:57 asciilifeform mats: but returning to ru spammers etc -- why do you assume that they necessarily pay into the treasury in moscow, a la 17th c privateer? can maybe think of another reason why ru would not participate in reich's extradition circus ?

18:58 asciilifeform ( btw ru will not extradite. just like france does not. but somehow no whining in fishwraps about how france 'impedes justice' )

18:58 mats i did say moonlighting fsb officers, ~somebody~ in the umbrella org is directing and deescalating these efforts

18:58 mats afk

18:59 asciilifeform mats: what i was getting at, is that this is not a necessary hypothesis.

18:59 asciilifeform it is again the thinking from pov of 'stability' as an abstract good.

18:59 asciilifeform it aint somehow a 'rising tide which floats all boats', that's the thing.

19:00 asciilifeform ru does not win from trying to participate in a usg-led 'international order'. under eltsin earnestly tried, just about turned into a rhodesia.

19:00 asciilifeform 'rule of law' is bunkum (incidentally putin has a trademarked slogan, 'dictatorship of the law', which he pushes cynically like troo bunkum artist, the chumpers eat it up)

19:01 asciilifeform ( whereas in reality, mussolini's quip holds )

19:01 dulapbot Logged on 2020年12月28日 11:53:09 asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2020-12-28#1027392 << establishment mouthpieces always follow, if not explicitly state, mussolini's 'for us and ours -- everything; for others -- the law'. recall for instance the 'lisp is slow'(tm) folx who carefully set up discussion so that unix load time not counted, but cl runtime's -- is, or pret

19:01 asciilifeform 'the law' exists strictly and exclusively for the peasant. in all times/places.

19:05 whaack peterl: your blog is inacessible to me

19:05 asciilifeform 'stability' is a++ great if yer well-positioned in life, and if not, then not so great, i'd've thought is rather obv., this.

19:05 dulapbot Logged on 2021年08月08日 17:34:07 verisimilitude: I vaguely remember my disappointment at realizing this so-called pandemic was fake, and not something which would kill hundreds of millions, perhaps leaving more room for me.

19:07 asciilifeform whaack: https://peterl.xyz ? seems to be down

19:07 asciilifeform ^ PeterL ?

19:09 PeterL needs no s, use http://peterl.xyz

19:10 asciilifeform still nope

19:10 PeterL hmm, I see it from here

19:10 asciilifeform PeterL: dnsism dun resolve

19:11 asciilifeform maybe expired ?

19:13 PeterL maybe? I will look into it

19:31 PeterL Looks like I had it pointing at the qntra nameserver, is that down now? bingoboingo

19:34 asciilifeform oh hey the old qntra finally RIP. ( asciilifeform's mirror covers, fortunately, entirety of it ! )

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19:34 dulapbot Logged on 2021年07月06日 16:13:25 asciilifeform: davout: fwiw i've a full mirror of qntra (orig. is still alive, but was on mp-controlled domain, so i expect will turn into goatse at some point)

19:41 PeterL should be fixed now, once DNS propagates.

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20:16 asciilifeform !w poll

20:16 watchglass Polling 17 nodes...

20:17 watchglass 185.85.38.54:8333 : Could not connect!

20:17 watchglass 84.16.46.130:8333 : Could not connect!

20:17 watchglass 205.134.172.6:8333 : (172-6.core.ai.net) Alive: (0.081s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Return Addr=0.0.0.0:8333 Blocks=695003

20:17 watchglass 185.163.46.29:8333 : Could not connect!

20:17 watchglass 205.134.172.27:8333 : Alive: (0.083s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=695003 (Operator: asciilifeform)

20:17 watchglass 54.39.156.171:8333 : (ns562940.ip-54-39-156.net) Alive: (0.114s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=695003

20:17 watchglass 205.134.172.26:8333 : Alive: (0.141s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Return Addr=0.0.0.0:8333 Blocks=695003

20:17 watchglass 205.134.172.28:8333 : Alive: (0.083s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Return Addr=0.0.0.0:8333 Blocks=695003 (Operator: whaack)

20:17 watchglass 71.191.220.241:8333 : (pool-71-191-220-241.washdc.fios.verizon.net) Alive: (0.091s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=695003 (Operator: asciilifeform)

20:17 watchglass 143.202.160.10:8333 : Alive: (0.172s) V=70001 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.7.0.1/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=695003

20:17 watchglass 205.134.172.4:8333 : (172-4.core.ai.net) Alive: (0.207s) V=70001 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.7.0.1/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=695003

20:17 watchglass 208.94.240.42:8333 : Alive: (0.159s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=695003

20:17 watchglass 54.38.94.63:8333 : (ns3140226.ip-54-38-94.eu) Alive: (0.276s) V=88888 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.8.88.88/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=695003

20:17 watchglass 213.109.238.156:8333 : Alive: (0.336s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=695003

20:17 watchglass 103.36.92.112:8333 : (terebe.ns01.net) Alive: (0.617s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=695003

20:17 asciilifeform !q seen cgra

20:17 dulapbot cgra last seen here on 2021年08月01日 16:11:10: i said it confusingly, i meant <1000 sats is a no-go, but 1000...9999 is 'a maybe', and >=10000 is 'no questions asked'

20:18 watchglass 176.9.59.199:8333 : Violated BTC Protocol: Bad header length! (Operator: jurov)

20:18 watchglass 192.151.158.26:8333 : Busy? (No answer in 100 sec.)

20:32 whaack cgra: any chance you're working on the patches for the problems you've discovered?

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21:29 mats asciilifeform: i can understand why you think so, but there is a commercially, visibly preferable (to corps) gradient between rule of law and rule of man

21:30 mats which is why not all that much actual intl commerce happens in ru, beyond the cash and carry trades for gas and oil products

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21:30 mats and yes, sanctions don't help, of course

21:35 verisimilitude I fixed mine RSS issue by having the feed contain only the newest entry; this seems elegant.

21:35 mats nor do i believe the electronic piracy is being ~centrally~ directed and managed, but i do expect there's kill switches in the form of assets that de facto report to fsb handler(s), because imho there's no benefit to killing the host while there's still meat and blood to be had

21:37 mats straddling the line between 'ok, we'll let it ride' and 'the colonial pipeline is so egregious that usg feels it has no choice but public and devastating reprisals, or else a perceived loss of sovereignty'

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21:38 mats at the risk of repeating myself, stopping short of 'cyberwar', just extraordinary acts of espionage

21:42 mats anyway, rule of law isn't necessary for commerce per se, but for as long and wherever it exists, its preferable to rule of man

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21:50 asciilifeform http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-08-09#1051579 << it's a petrostan. rather like e.g. qatar. and previously, in eltsin period was simply a 'free-for-all' neocolonial paradise for western vultures.

21:50 dulapbot Logged on 2021年08月09日 17:25:58 mats: which is why not all that much actual intl commerce happens in ru, beyond the cash and carry trades for gas and oil products

21:50 asciilifeform so, given that ~0 meaningfully exportable manufacture there, and that ru aint part of the lizard chrematist 'financial' reich, big fat unsurprise that 'not much commerce but in minerals.'

21:50 asciilifeform has exactly 0 to do with 'rule of law' or lack thereof

21:51 asciilifeform ( ru's is approx. on-par with cn's afaik )

21:52 asciilifeform http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-08-09#1051583 << asciilifeform said it 'over 9000' times and will say again -- 'cyberwar'(tm)(r)(c) exists and will exist for exactly so long as usg's imposition of microshitware carries on, and not a nanosecond longer.

21:52 dulapbot Logged on 2021年08月09日 17:33:00 mats: straddling the line between 'ok, we'll let it ride' and 'the colonial pipeline is so egregious that usg feels it has no choice but public and devastating reprisals, or else a perceived loss of sovereignty'

21:52 asciilifeform there is no such thing as 'cyberattack'. there is only vulns in 'victim''s own arse.

21:53 asciilifeform rather like how Software Does Not Fail -- software cannot be 'attacked'.

21:53 asciilifeform it's either correct or broken.

21:54 asciilifeform pretense to the contrary is politically expedient, yes, and nearly universal in the Official lugenpress and 'security' racket. changes nothing.

21:55 verisimilitude It's amazing the insane times we live in: Men pretend to be women, most software doesn't work, etc.

21:56 asciilifeform http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-08-09#1051585 << all rule is rule of man. inanimate objects cannot rule.

21:56 dulapbot Logged on 2021年08月09日 17:37:53 mats: anyway, rule of law isn't necessary for commerce per se, but for as long and wherever it exists, its preferable to rule of man

21:56 asciilifeform ( when in given context you are 'ruled' by laws of physics -- typically we use another word )

21:57 verisimilitude Yes, like ``splat''.

21:57 asciilifeform verisimilitude: pretense and organized lie goes with civilization just like smog and plague.

21:57 verisimilitude I'm still waiting for the plague.

21:58 asciilifeform verisimilitude: 'plague' in broad sense. not necessarily a baccilus.

21:58 dulapbot Logged on 2021年08月08日 23:14:51 asciilifeform: mats: lemme ask you , did any of these people spend time studying ~why~ modern man even ~needs~ oncology treatments ?

21:59 asciilifeform ( or even see e.g. mp's piece re subj )

21:59 dulapbot (trilema) 2018年06月11日 mircea_popescu: hence http://trilema.com/2014/modern-medicine-and-the-benefits-of-democracy/

22:03 asciilifeform http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-08-09#1051555 << PeterL it still dun load ftr

22:03 dulapbot Logged on 2021年08月09日 15:36:51 PeterL: should be fixed now, once DNS propagates.

22:07 PeterL apparently DNS takes some time to propagate?

22:08 asciilifeform http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-08-09#1051305 << btw speaking of 'great firewalls' and pills against same, oblig spam!: get rk at asciilifeform's isp! i've 17 rk in stock!

22:08 dulapbot Logged on 2021年08月09日 12:32:37 punkman: heh, gov/isp is blocking that domain

22:09 asciilifeform ( naturally only pill for orcistani blacklist , rather than usg )

22:11 PeterL instead of a vps its a pps (physical private server)?

22:11 asciilifeform PeterL: correct

22:12 mats colo (colocated) is the term of art

22:12 mats ...i think

22:13 asciilifeform mats: colo, traditionally, is when the customer brings own irons

22:13 mats its still basically a vps, but no hypervisor

22:13 asciilifeform mats: whence the 'v' ?

22:13 asciilifeform just 'ps'.

22:14 * asciilifeform does not offer any multi-user boxes, such as the 'kolhoz for noobs' which existed at piz

22:15 mats maybe 'managed bare metal'? not sure what others call it

22:16 whaack asciilifeform: speaking of which , not sure exactly when my lease runs out but i think it's soon, i'm happy to renew

22:16 asciilifeform mats: in what sense 'managed' ?

22:16 mats you or a dc employee can still power it down

22:16 asciilifeform mats: in that sense all hosting outside of your own desk similarly 'managed', lol

22:17 mats i'm just trying to find the pidgin for whatever it is

22:17 asciilifeform mats: 'colocation' -- you park box, vendor supplies mains current, cooling, network.

22:17 whaack thimbronion: how is your colo'd box in CR doing?

22:17 asciilifeform mats: 'dedicated hosting' -- vendor supplies machine (lease) , current, cooling, network

22:18 thimbronion whaack: no issues so far

22:18 mats ah thats it

22:18 asciilifeform whaack: 16 aug. pgpgram asciilifeform re term you'd like to renew for, will answr w/ addr, ty

22:18 asciilifeform whaack: 2021 prices.

22:20 asciilifeform mats: i offer both types. as previously discussed, it is impossible to prevent landlord from stealing irons; however asciilifeform does make use of custom tamper indicators in his cage & its contents.

22:21 asciilifeform the precise nature of these, the intervals at which inspected, etc. will not be disclosed. cuz 'none of anyone's biz'.

22:22 asciilifeform so far asciilifeform has no complaints of ~this~ nature about the current landlord. ( all complaints rather re 'coarse errors of pilotage' , e.g. on 1 occasion they pulled wrong lever in the battery room... etc )

22:23 asciilifeform if there's a '100% uptime' dc somewhere on planet3 --- 1) asciilifeform doesn't know where it is 2) can bet that it costs considerably moar than asciilifeform is paying

22:24 asciilifeform current stats, informally.

22:26 asciilifeform last known (to asciilifeform) failure was on 29 dec. 2020 . (mains current; attrib. to sched. maint.)

22:27 asciilifeform <5m.

22:32 whaack !e uptime

22:32 trbexplorer whaack: time since my last reconnect : 21d 4h 29m

22:32 whaack asciilifeform: noted, will do

22:33 asciilifeform whaack: ty